Parent swap changes...

[Homer fan]

It ended with 1 + 2 additional. Or always had, until fastpasses were being commoditized. We don't need to go down the slippery slope of where it ends because for decades, Disney has been consistent - it ended with the person waiting plus 2 extra. I don't know why it didn't occur to you that both children could ride with each parent -- that's literally how the old system was designed to work and did work for decades.

Exactly...and it's safe to say most families have no more than 3 kids, so the old way covered probably 95% of families.

 

[James Alucobond]

It ended with 1 + 2 additional. Or always had, until fastpasses were being commoditized. We don't need to go down the slippery slope of where it ends because for decades, Disney has been consistent - it ended with the person waiting plus 2 extra. I don't know why it didn't occur to you that both children could ride with each parent -- that's literally how the old system was designed to work and did work for decades.

My point is that the benefit is clearly intended for every person to be able to ride once. If you were using it differently, you were exploiting a loophole. This change doesn't necessarily "close" the loophole completely, but those complaining that they can't ride with their two children simultaneously are simply experiencing the same thing people with three or more riding-age children did previously.

 

[orky8]

This is to increase operational efficiency/capacity.

LOL. OK. Nothing to do with charging for fastpasses. And the Epcot monorail not running is about capacity restrictions due to covid, right?

 

[castlecake2.0]

I think you're right. It seems like the ways people used to abuse the old system (at least, those I saw presented online as the best ways to game it) were: (1) double the rides -- e.g., not actually swapping anyone at all, but having the same family members ride twice while the others, who never cared to ride in the first place, "waited" for them both times; and (2) multiply Fastpasses by obtaining them only for those riding the first time and then swapping out to other family members without anyone having to wait in standby, and then using the second group's Fastpass entitlements to do the same thing at another attraction.

Disney couldn't care less about those kinds of abuse when it wasn't hurting their bottom line, even if some guests complained about it. Now that they're (allegedly) going to monetize the process, they don't want to leave a dime on the table.

They care now because everyone wants to have the best secret on tiktok and people are abusing the system, same why DAS was changed. Not every change is because Disney is an evil money hungry corporation bent on trying to make you have the most awful vacation experience ever.

 

[mgf]

This falls into that ticky-tacky, obnoxious change category. People will adapt and adjust, but honestly, it strikes me as petty and small of Disney to make this change. I literally never worried or cared about how rider/kid swap impacted my wait times as a kidless guest. It was just something that was baked in. A nice Disney difference that helped some and impacted me barely.

 

[castlecake2.0]

LOL. OK. Nothing to do with charging for fastpasses. And the Epcot monorail not running is about capacity restrictions due to covid, right?

** that was the main region along with staffing. Staff currently training so it shouldn’t be too long now.

 

[orky8]

My point is that the benefit is clearly intended for every person to be able to ride once. If you were using it differently, you were exploiting a loophole. This change doesn't necessarily "close" the loophole completely, but those complaining that they can't ride with their two children simultaneously are simply experiencing the same thing people with three or more riding-age children did previously.

False. It was intended so that families could ride together as much as possible. Whether it was "fair" or not, Disney's policy for decades was to allow this.

And, to be clear, I'm only complaining because the timing is no coincidence - now that fastpasses cost money, Disney is tightening things up. I don't even have a dog in this fight -- by the time I return, all my kids will be tall enough for everything anyway.

 

[mgf]

They care now because everyone wants to have the best secret on tiktok and people are abusing the system, same why DAS was changed. Not every change is because Disney is an evil money hungry corporation bent on trying to make you have the most awful vacation experience ever.

Yeah, definitely would not want to attract parties of five that happen to have two adults, two tall and brave kids, and one slightly too small or slightly too scared kid to the parks. They could get overrun with.... their ideal demographic?

 

[castlecake2.0]

Yeah, definitely would not want to attract parties of five that happen to have two adults, two tall and brave kids, and one slightly too small or slightly too scared kid to the parks. They could get overrun with.... their ideal demographic?

What about party of 6? 7? 8? The point on rider swap was to let the waiting adult experience the attraction, not to let everyone ride again.

 

[pdude81]

False. It was intended so that families could ride together as much as possible. Whether it was "fair" or not, Disney's policy for decades was to allow this.

And, to be clear, I'm only complaining because the timing is no coincidence - now that fastpasses cost money, Disney is tightening things up. I don't even have a dog in this fight -- by the time I return, all my kids will be tall enough for everything anyway.

I think once fastpasses are monetized, there will be far more people trying to use rider swap and DAS than were before. This is both for people that qualify but don't use the services and for people who are trying to game the system. So now is the time to get the requirements straight.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I think once fastpasses are monetized, there will be far more people trying to use rider swap and DAS than were before. This is both for people that qualify but don't use the services and for people who are trying to game the system. So now is the time to get the requirements straight.

And people caught gaming the system - especially the DAS system - should face consequences from Disney. What form those may take, I don't know, but far too many have benefitted from such behavior even aside from the initial reward (clicks on youtube videos, etc.).

 

[orky8]

What about party of 6? 7? 8? The point on rider swap was to let the waiting adult experience the attraction, not to let everyone ride again.

OK, and so Disney finally learned to do math in 2021? The average family has 2 kids. If the "point" was simply to let the waiting adult experience the attraction, why has the rider swap -- for as long as I can remember, at least 10 years -- been the waiting adult plus 2 others? That was NEVER needed if the point was simply to allow the waiting adult to experience the attraction.

I'm sorry, but if you can't see that this move is to, I'll concede "increase operational efficiency" right before, hopefully you'll concede, Disney will begin charging at the margins for rides, you're missing the bigger picture. The more "operational efficiency" the more fastpasses Disney can sell.

This "trick" or "abuse of the system" has been in every guidebook for decades. When you went to get a rider swap CMs would openly ask, which 2 additional members will be returning. In the old paper days, the rider swap clearly stated for three people. Now, all of sudden, because of TikTok, we're supposed to believe Disney wants to crack down on abuse?

 

[castlecake2.0]

OK, and so Disney finally learned to do math in 2021? The average family has 2 kids. If the "point" was simply to let the waiting adult experience the attraction, why has the rider swap -- for as long as I can remember, at least 10 years -- been the waiting adult plus 2 others? That was NEVER needed if the point was simply to allow the waiting adult to experience the attraction.

I'm sorry, but if you can't see that this move is to, I'll concede "increase operational efficiency" right before, hopefully you'll concede, Disney will begin charging at the margins for rides, you're missing the bigger picture. The more "operational efficiency" the more fastpasses Disney can sell.

This "trick" or "abuse of the system" has been in every guidebook for decades. When you went to get a rider swap CMs would openly ask, which 2 additional members will be returning. In the old paper days, the rider swap clearly stated for three people. Now, all of sudden, because of TikTok, we're supposed to believe Disney wants to crack down on abuse?

I don’t know if paid fast pass is coming, but if it is then yah I’m sure they’re going to close up loopholes for people trying to get around option a) wait in standby or b) pay for a fastpass. If people try to option c) abuse the system, then it makes people using a and b wait longer. Disney doesn’t WANT people to have to wait in long lines, in fact the reason park hours get extended day of is because the data shows that people haven’t been able to experience the secret satisfactory number of attractions Disney wants you to do based on that days wait times. Reducing loop holes reduces waits. I’m not saying this doesn’t boil down to money somewhere, but it’s main outcome isn’t to increase revenue, it’s to increase capacity.

 

[James Alucobond]

False. It was intended so that families could ride together as much as possible. Whether it was "fair" or not, Disney's policy for decades was to allow this.

And, to be clear, I'm only complaining because the timing is no coincidence - now that fastpasses cost money, Disney is tightening things up. I don't even have a dog in this fight -- by the time I return, all my kids will be tall enough for everything anyway.

You're right that it's no coincidence that it's happening now. I'm sure that they're changing the policy for exactly the reason that you describe. However, I really think you're wrong about the original intent. It was designed to give everyone in the family a turn to ride with a single wait even if one person in the family physically couldn't ride or didn't want to ride and needed to be attended to by a parent. It was not meant to give each parent a chance to re-ride with all of their children even if it could be exploited in that way for families of a specific size.

 

[mgf]

You're right that it's no coincidence that it's happening now. I'm sure that they're changing the policy for exactly the reason that you describe. However, I really think you're wrong about the original intent. It was designed to give everyone in the family a turn to ride with a single wait even if one person in the family physically couldn't ride or didn't want to ride and needed to be attended to by a parent. It was not meant to give each parent a chance to re-ride with all of their children even if it could be exploited in that way for families of a specific size.

It is entirely possible that was the design intent. It was not the operational reality, however, and Disney let it be.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I honestly always thought rider swap had the person who sat out to watch over the child ride by themselves… I had no idea they could bring two others with them.

This change is fine by me. They can bring one other with them so they don’t get lonely or whatever - while impacting other guests less.

 

[mysto]

This is to increase operational efficiency/capacity.

It will have that affect, there will be fewer unexpected line cuts. Fewer people riding twice.

For Disney to raise the price of an upsell, they need good analytics. The machines need to have a good idea of when to raise prices and by how much. Anything unpredictable needs to be reduced, rider swap is not algo friendly.

 

[orky8]

You're right that it's no coincidence that it's happening now. I'm sure that they're changing the policy for exactly the reason that you describe. However, I really think you're wrong about the original intent. It was designed to give everyone in the family a turn to ride with a single wait even if one person in the family physically couldn't ride or didn't want to ride and needed to be attended to by a parent. It was not meant to give each parent a chance to re-ride with all of their children even if it could be exploited in that way for families of a specific size.

We'll have to agree to disagree, as neither of us were in the room when they decided this so can't definitively speak to intent. But, given that the vast majority of families are 5 people or less it doesn't make sense to me why the rider swap would be the waiting adult plus 2 more unless the intent was to allow the waiting parent to ride with their children that already gone with the other parent. (best quick data I could find was pew research from 2016 - 21% of families with 1 child, 41% 2 children, 23% 3, 15% 4 or more).

I firmly do not believe this was "exploitation" but instead was the "intention" of the system given that for 85% of families in 2016, that's exactly how this system would work. Disney simply does not care if some kids get an extra bonus ride -- that type of magic, in fact, used to be what Disney was all about. Whether this is "fair" or not is also a fair debate, but it was the system for decades.

 

[James Alucobond]

We'll have to agree to disagree, as neither of us were in the room when they decided this so can't definitively speak to intent. But, given that the vast majority of families are 5 people or less it doesn't make sense to me why the rider swap would be the waiting adult plus 2 more unless the intent was to allow the waiting parent to ride with their children that already gone with the other parent. (best quick data I could find was pew research from 2016 - 21% of families with 1 child, 41% 2 children, 23% 3, 15% 4 or more).

I firmly do not believe this was "exploitation" but instead was the "intention" of the system given that for 85% of families in 2016, that's exactly how this system would work. Disney simply does not care if some kids get an extra bonus ride -- that type of magic, in fact, used to be what Disney was all about. Whether this is "fair" or not is also a fair debate, but it was the system for decades.

True, I do not know Disney's intent, but knowing how lines are generally intended to function, I think it's rational to assume that it's supposed to be a means of "saving a place" in line (generally considered fair) rather than "cutting" in line (generally considered unfair). I always assumed that the ability to bring two others along on the second ride was meant as a convenience for the rarer large family rather than an additional free ride for a smaller family. That way, if you have, say, six kids, one parent can wait in line with three while the other manages three of his or her own. When the swap occurs, the remaining parent quickly gets to ride with two more and they move on, meaning no parent gets stuck wrangling too many kids independently.

 

[ToTBellHop]

This is not about making money. Anyone who has visited recently has observed outrageous numbers of people using the FP line. It needs to be cut down. I have heard of some DAS changes in the works, too. The only way this makes money is indirectly by limiting crowds in the FP line so those who ARE paying don’t have to wait long.

However, everyone who is angry here, deep down, knows they were cheating. No one should be getting free re-rides unless only one child in your party is tall enough. I understand the frustration, but nothing unfair is happening.