News Paradise Pier Becoming Pixar Pier

[Phroobar]

From what I've heard, it was a two way mirror effect that had an empty elevator car on the other side. That's only what I've heard, though, and I haven't seen any blue prints to suggest this.

The reason they did it that was because there wasn't room for a proper 5th dimension room. The ghost hallway is in the lower part of the building right above the upper loading area. The mirror effect is higher up in the tower. There is no room for a duplicate empty ride vehicle up there. It's just a projection. Notice our ghost effect is out of sync with our movements. It takes time for the computer to add the real time effects to our video.

Now it simply plays videos.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I see it differently. The designated land borders are arbitrary. The west side of MK is genius in the way it transitions from the Wild West of Frontierland to eventually the civilized east coast with Haunted Mansion. You even cross a creek that represents the Mississippi. The Steamboat belongs to all of the Rivers of America and its passage is symbolic of America’s march through time. Or something like that.

Country Bears and B'rer Creatures are Wild West? It's been pointed out quite often that Frontierland confuses The Frontier with the Deep South.

MK has little pockets of thematic genius surrounded by a huge thematic mess.

The overall 'themes' of MK's six or seven lands are fine -- if you don't think about it. But then you get thematic purists and sightline activists ranting if some new or refurbished attraction or land is thematically correct to a degree of high precision claiming a long tradition of thematic purity even going to Uncle Walt himself.

And then when you look at the original castle parks... it is to laugh. That high bar of thematic purity never existed. In the MK, there's no easy transition at either end of Tomorrowland (which is futurism or sci-fi )? IaSW isn't fantasy like anything else in Fantasyland, it belongs in Epcot along with CoP. From Liberty Square, you have sightlines to about 4 different eras. Adventureland is 'anything happening in the tropics', which is pretty much DAK's philosophy on animals.

WDW has a lot of genius. Just not in the obsessive compulsive hyper-consistent way some people believe it contains or would like anything new to adhere to.

That being said. Pixar Pier is a hot mess. Even lowering the standard of thematic purity to non-obsessive standards, it's another $50 million short of the niceties to make it all work at that lower and more realistic standard.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I prefer my themes slapped together with vague connections.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I think this is where a lot of the problem lies for me. I understand there are less roles for racial minorities so people will champion letting them be casted as white characters despite not fitting the bill. I believe that's where you're coming from and if it is I disagree but I respect it. The problem, though, is that a lot of the time I see people pretending that it's an issue of "They're the best for the role" when that's not true. Best for the role would be someone who, y'know, somewhat resembles the role. If this was a radio show that'd be different. But anyways, if a white woman was best for the role of Tiana, there'd be backlash like you said, as there should be. It'd be ridiculous to cast a white woman as Jasmine, Tiana, Moana, etc. Now you agree, but you agree because you think women in racial minorities don't have enough representation and giving that role to a white woman would be taking away a job as well as representation whereas I feel it's an issue of accuracy, immersion, and a general sense of quality within the parks.

I get where you’re coming from, and I would probably feel the same if ethnic actors and actresses playing traditional white characters took away immersion for me, but they don’t. I also don’t equate that with a lack of quality. I’m from Los Angeles, I’m used to diversity, so it’s nothing for me. Not to mention I grew up faithfully watching Rogers and Hammerstein’s Cinderella (1997), where the entire cast was multi-ethnic. Didn’t bother me one bit. I also had a white foster brother growing up and my aunt by marriage is Greek. Different skin tones and ethnic backgrounds, but we’re still family.

Yeah I guess the truth is that Disney went too long without much diversity and it would take years of pumping out more Aladdin’s, Coco’s and Princess and the Frogs to catch up. So casting actors of different races is one small way for them to be more inclusive.

On another note, I think the 3 movies I mentioned above would make for some great dark rides.

SAME. I would love some dark rides based on those films. Probably never going to happen though, unfortunately.

Is his shadow white?




While not the first to do so, Disney popularized the racially blind casting for some of their parks and cruise shows. Racially-blind Frozen was accepted by the masses and taken to Broadway.

It's a great step toward fighting racism and getting across the reality that there aren't different human races. The color of one's skin no more puts a person in a specific race than does the color of one's eyes or hair.

Now, of course, shows in which race is an issue may not be able to get past that. But if race isn't an issue in a story, then it shouldn't be for casting.

Broadway has two (that I know of) shows with racially blind casting: Frozen and Hamilton. And they're both doing well.

I agree with everything you said. I’m still waiting for those Hamilton tickets to come down though. Lol.

 

[JohnyKaz2078]

Not to naysay your point, but this actually happened to me. In fact nothing happened in that scene at all and it was by far the creepiest ride on Tower that I'd ever had.

Ok that depends on the person.

 

[TROR]

The reason they did it that was because there wasn't room for a proper 5th dimension room. The ghost hallway is in the lower part of the building right above the upper loading area. The mirror effect is higher up in the tower. There is no room for a duplicate empty ride vehicle up there. It's just a projection. Notice our ghost effect is out of sync with our movements. It takes time for the computer to add the real time effects to our video.

Now it simply plays videos.

No matter how it was done, there are two things to note. First off, it's not the same screen.

Clearly the one for Mission Breakout takes up way more space on the wall. It takes up the whole wall, actually. It's also horrible framed compared to Tower of Terror where it was quite literally framed.

Other thing that needs to be taken into account, however, is the content. My problem with screens comes from the fact they do not sell the idea that the character is present. That's clearly a video of Chris Pratt. It's not convincing. You can say audio animatronics are fake looking robots, but I've heard so many people say the Johnny Depp figures on PotC are a real actor. Either way, having a real figure there sells the idea and is far more immersive than looking at a video of an actor in front of a green screen.

With Tower of Terror's mirror effect, however, the screen only existed to simulate a mirror which it did pretty well. Even then, it's taking something that is real (you, the other passengers, and the elevator car) and putting it on the screen rather than a CGI mess like MB and Star Tours II.

Country Bears and B'rer Creatures are Wild West? It's been pointed out quite often that Frontierland confuses The Frontier with the Deep South.

I always thought bears singing 1950's country songs in the Wild West was weird. Still love Country Bear Jamboree in all its brilliance, though.

 

[Phroobar]

No matter how it was done, there are two things to note. First off, it's not the same screen.

View attachment 295688View attachment 295689

Clearly the one for Mission Breakout takes up way more space on the wall. It takes up the whole wall, actually. It's also horrible framed compared to Tower of Terror where it was quite literally framed.

Other thing that needs to be taken into account, however, is the content. My problem with screens comes from the fact they do not sell the idea that the character is present. That's clearly a video of Chris Pratt. It's not convincing. You can say audio animatronics are fake looking robots, but I've heard so many people say the Johnny Depp figures on PotC are a real actor. Either way, having a real figure there sells the idea and is far more immersive than looking at a video of an actor in front of a green screen.

With Tower of Terror's mirror effect, however, the screen only existed to simulate a mirror which it did pretty well. Even then, it's taking something that is real (you, the other passengers, and the elevator car) and putting it on the screen rather than a CGI mess like MB and Star Tours II.



I always thought bears singing 1950's country songs in the Wild West was weird. Still love Country Bear Jamboree in all its brilliance, though.

Sure. It's just a bigger screen now.

 

[Ismael Flores]

Is his shadow white?


While not the first to do so, Disney popularized the racially blind casting for some of their parks and cruise shows. Racially-blind Frozen was accepted by the masses and taken to Broadway.

It's a great step toward fighting racism and getting across the reality that there aren't different human races. The color of one's skin no more puts a person in a specific race than does the color of one's eyes or hair.

Now, of course, shows in which race is an issue may not be able to get past that. But if race isn't an issue in a story, then it shouldn't be for casting.

Broadway has two (that I know of) shows with racially blind casting: Frozen and Hamilton. And they're both doing well.

Hopefully this mentality would move over to FIlm making as well. It is so frustrating to constantly read stories complaining about someone being cast that is not racially correct in certain films and now it is even moving to more than just race. The latest with issues that Scarlett Johanson will be playing a transgender character eventhough she isn't one. Isn't that what acting is all about? It shouldn't matter the race, sexual preference etc if an actor is chosen for their ability to play the part.

There should be more cast diversity in movies but the decision should be made on how well the actor can portray the part and not by its race .......etc .

I stopped watching award shows because they became to focused on how many actors of what race or sex where chosen. It isn't about who the better actor is anymore. It is about making sure that the race and sex balance is correct even if it means that a better actor is passed and not recognized.

 

[Ismael Flores]

No matter how it was done, there are two things to note. First off, it's not the same screen.

View attachment 295688View attachment 295689

Clearly the one for Mission Breakout takes up way more space on the wall. It takes up the whole wall, actually. It's also horrible framed compared to Tower of Terror where it was quite literally framed.

Other thing that needs to be taken into account, however, is the content. My problem with screens comes from the fact they do not sell the idea that the character is present. That's clearly a video of Chris Pratt. It's not convincing. You can say audio animatronics are fake looking robots, but I've heard so many people say the Johnny Depp figures on PotC are a real actor. Either way, having a real figure there sells the idea and is far more immersive than looking at a video of an actor in front of a green screen.

With Tower of Terror's mirror effect, however, the screen only existed to simulate a mirror which it did pretty well. Even then, it's taking something that is real (you, the other passengers, and the elevator car) and putting it on the screen rather than a CGI mess like MB and Star Tours II.
I always thought bears singing 1950's country songs in the Wild West was weird. Still love Country Bear Jamboree in all its brilliance, though.

Its to bad they didn't at least have a baby Groot AA.

 

[Disney Irish]

You're right.

Steamboats were invented in 1807, 31 years after the American Revolution began. It's more like having a Chevrolet Master on Main Street USA. That's still ridiculous.

Seeing a steamboat from Liberty Square isn't a problem, but the fact it's part of Liberty Square is. Just switch the border of the land to make it part of Frontierland and the problem is solved.

To be honest I'm not really a WDW guy, so I really am not tied to the land names or their borders. But it seem like you are using the name as a way to argue for historical inaccuracy which should never be part of an argument about a Disney park.

 

[shortstop]

Country Bears and B'rer Creatures are Wild West? It's been pointed out quite often that Frontierland confuses The Frontier with the Deep South.

MK has little pockets of thematic genius surrounded by a huge thematic mess.

The overall 'themes' of MK's six or seven lands are fine -- if you don't think about it. But then you get thematic purists and sightline activists ranting if some new or refurbished attraction or land is thematically correct to a degree of high precision claiming a long tradition of thematic purity even going to Uncle Walt himself.

And then when you look at the original castle parks... it is to laugh. That high bar of thematic purity never existed. In the MK, there's no easy transition at either end of Tomorrowland (which is futurism or sci-fi )? IaSW isn't fantasy like anything else in Fantasyland, it belongs in Epcot along with CoP. From Liberty Square, you have sightlines to about 4 different eras. Adventureland is 'anything happening in the tropics', which is pretty much DAK's philosophy on animals.

WDW has a lot of genius. Just not in the obsessive compulsive hyper-consistent way some people believe it contains or would like anything new to adhere to.

That being said. Pixar Pier is a hot mess. Even lowering the standard of thematic purity to non-obsessive standards, it's another $50 million short of the niceties to make it all work at that lower and more realistic standard.

The original effect of the design has been lessened by Splash Mountain in particular, but also Country Bears. Not that they are unworthy of inclusion but it does mess with the original design, which of course would have been better with a full and complete WRE in Frontierland.

I think you aren’t giving the designers of MK and EPCOT enough credit. Sure, there are flaws, but on the whole, they were brilliantly designed and executed parks. In this respect, what has changed and been added in the last couple decades is irrelevant.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

Country Bears and B'rer Creatures are Wild West? It's been pointed out quite often that Frontierland confuses The Frontier with the Deep South.

Just wanted to pop in and point out that WDW's Splash was intentionally designed with different music, costuming, color schemes, and rockwork to fit the Frontier area instead of the bayou vibe of Disneyland's.

As far as CBJ, I don't think it was ever intended to be deep south? They're not singing Dixie music.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Just wanted to pop in and point out that WDW's Splash was intentionally designed with different music, costuming, color schemes, and rockwork to fit the Frontier area instead of the bayou vibe of Disneyland's.

OK, but... are the characters still the in-bred hillbilly stereotypes of Song of the South?

 

[Curious Constance]

Look how good the side of Poultry Palace looks:

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

What the heck is that?

 

[shortstop]

Look how good the side of Poultry Palace looks:

I hope this becomes DCA’s “purple wall”.

 

[Professortango1]

The reason they did it that was because there wasn't room for a proper 5th dimension room. The ghost hallway is in the lower part of the building right above the upper loading area. The mirror effect is higher up in the tower. There is no room for a duplicate empty ride vehicle up there. It's just a projection. Notice our ghost effect is out of sync with our movements. It takes time for the computer to add the real time effects to our video.

Now it simply plays videos.

Nope. There's even pictures of the empty elevator car with the words reversed from CMs. The effect had our car looking through a two way mirror to a duplicate car. When the lights are on us, the mirror reflects our image. When the projection is shot onto the mirror and lights go down on us, the ghost imagery appears. Lastly, the lights shift a third time to light the empty car behind the mirror so it appears as if we are looking at the reflected image of our now empty car.

And the reason they did this wasn't a lack of room, it was that Imagineers always felt the 5th Dimension Room was a failure overall. It was expensive, it slowed down the pace of the first half of the ride, it was prone to error, and it caused some unfortunate pauses in the story. This newer design fixed it so well that when Tokyo Disney Seas had their choice of which Tower design to utilize for their park, they selected the updated design seen in Paris and California.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

Nope. There's even pictures of the empty elevator car with the words reversed from CMs. The effect had our car looking through a two way mirror to a duplicate car. When the lights are on us, the mirror reflects our image. When the projection is shot onto the mirror and lights go down on us, the ghost imagery appears. Lastly, the lights shift a third time to light the empty car behind the mirror so it appears as if we are looking at the reflected image of our now empty car.

And the reason they did this wasn't a lack of room, it was that Imagineers always felt the 5th Dimension Room was a failure overall. It was expensive, it slowed down the pace of the first half of the ride, it was prone to error, and it caused some unfortunate pauses in the story. This newer design fixed it so well that when Tokyo Disney Seas had their choice of which Tower design to utilize for their park, they selected the updated design seen in Paris and California.

The Fifth Dimension is such a missed opportunity, especially now that it has basically none of its original effects, like the fog. I'd wager that 99.98% of people don't even realize that they're supposed to be looking up an elevator shaft when the doors open.
However, it's genius for the story, because the elevator we're in is leaving the maintenance shaft and traveling up and up the tower through this fifth dimension portal shaft until it somehow finds itself in the original elevator shaft that the guests disappeared in, for history to repeat itself.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

OK, but... are the characters still the in-bred hillbilly stereotypes of Song of the South?

Only in the sense that three of them are characters from that movie, which is not actually referenced anywhere in the ride.

As far as I know, WDW's Splash takes place firmly in the American West. I believe even some of the dialogue was rerecorded for WDW, though I could be wrong on that front.

 

[TROR]

Nope. There's even pictures of the empty elevator car with the words reversed from CMs. The effect had our car looking through a two way mirror to a duplicate car. When the lights are on us, the mirror reflects our image. When the projection is shot onto the mirror and lights go down on us, the ghost imagery appears. Lastly, the lights shift a third time to light the empty car behind the mirror so it appears as if we are looking at the reflected image of our now empty car.

And the reason they did this wasn't a lack of room, it was that Imagineers always felt the 5th Dimension Room was a failure overall. It was expensive, it slowed down the pace of the first half of the ride, it was prone to error, and it caused some unfortunate pauses in the story. This newer design fixed it so well that when Tokyo Disney Seas had their choice of which Tower design to utilize for their park, they selected the updated design seen in Paris and California.

Don't suppose you know where to find that photograph of the duplicate elevator car?

EDIT: Found something interest. A German narrorated behind the scenes look at WDS Paris' Tower of Terror, a near direct copy of ours.



Here's a site translating the video.

At 5:13 they begin to talk about the mirror scene. "For example, they look through this pane, behind which there is a so-called magic mirror in which he can see himself and the other guests … and disappears in it.... Only the empty cabin is left behind. All necessary tricks and effects are being installed by specialists from all over Europe."