News Paradise Pier Becoming Pixar Pier

[Deleted member 107043]

Yes its just an overlay for an existing attraction, but after the changes they started making with DCA 2.0, it feels like they could put in more of an effort here.

I so agree with this.

 

[bluerhythym]

I'll never defend Toy Story Land as I think (so far) they've all been a waste of space and $$$. DHS' may be the first one that's not entirely craptacular as they have the added benefit of attaching it to the pre-existing Toy Story Mania and the slinky coaster may not be awful. All that said, Disney parks have always had a blend of intricate immersive rides and more surface level attractions w/ light theming. I take the pier for what it is... a pier with some better-than-average pier rides. At this point, unless they leveled it and put in something brand new, anything much more than that would kind of be overkill.

I don't mind lightly themed attractions, there's definitely a place for them. Maybe I do expect a little more from the "E-tickets", but I don't expect a grand, immersive theme everywhere. I think its as much about cohesion as it is about immersion.

So its less of an issue with Screamin', and more with the overall concept. When I hear "neighborhoods" I just hear "we couldn't decide". Switching the carousel from a perfectly themed King Triton to Woody makes no sense. Sure its next to more Toy Story, but Midway Mania works under the pier theme as a boardwalk game.

I do agree with your last sentiment though, Paradise Pier was a poorly planned land with terrible sight lines from the start. There's not much they can do there unless they bulldoze it and start from scratch. Which was why I was perfectly happy with the Victorian theming they started to add. The popcorn lights at night are beautiful, and I love the Boardwalk Pizza area. I would have been perfectly happy for them to just build a new Victorian queue for Screamin' and called it a day. I think that's why they've soured me so hard with all this Pixar stuff.

 

[dweezil78]

I don't mind lightly themed attractions, there's definitely a place for them. Maybe I do expect a little more from the "E-tickets", but I don't expect a grand, immersive theme everywhere. I think its as much about cohesion as it is about immersion.

So its less of an issue with Screamin', and more with the overall concept. When I hear "neighborhoods" I just hear "we couldn't decide". Switching the carousel from a perfectly themed King Triton to Woody makes no sense. Sure its next to more Toy Story, but Midway Mania works under the pier theme as a boardwalk game.

I do agree with your last sentiment though, Paradise Pier was a poorly planned land with terrible sight lines from the start. There's not much they can do there unless they bulldoze it and start from scratch. Which was why I was perfectly happy with the Victorian theming they started to add. The popcorn lights at night are beautiful, and I love the Boardwalk Pizza area. I would have been perfectly happy for them to just build a new Victorian queue for Screamin' and called it a day. I think that's why they've soured me so hard with all this Pixar stuff.

I think unfortunately they just have to over fluff this entire project when marketing/promoting it. There's simply not much to it, so they come up with lame descriptors like "neighborhoods." As for King Triton, I think once Little Mermaid opened up shop across the bay, its location no longer made sense being right outside Toy Story Mania and combined with Ariel's Grotto (which is also getting the axe), the film was too heavily represented in the park/area.

 

[Ismael Flores]

Obviously piers can have their own themes. But those old piers aren't trying to convince anyone that they're built over the ocean. They just are. When you're building an area 10 miles from the coast, and trying to convince people that it's a boardwalk, you have to drive home the details to preserve some idea of believability. I'm sure somewhere in the midwest there's a Hawaiian themed restaurant, but that doesn't mean a Lilo and Stitch ride would make sense on the Rivers of America.

Screamin' almost convinced me I'm on a pier coaster, as long as you look towards the bay and not towards the street poles and Convention Center. Was even better when they had the waves going, and the water wasn't full of WoC machinery. I'm never going to believe I'm Dash while I'm riding a bare bones steel coaster.

I don't think anyone is trying to convince you that you are actually on a real pier over the ocean, that would be impossible. No land as immersive as they are can overcome the reality of that. Do people actually believe that Anaheim has a huge desert with large mountain peaks next to Katella? i doubt it. I don't believe people are expected to literally believe that they are dash.

 

[Rich T]

That's true, I do appreciate having a more thrilling attraction at the DLR. But I feel like Rock n Rollcoaster fills that role as well, while still maintaining the Disney level of immersion.

Now, this is just my personal opinion, cause I know a lot of people love Rock n' Roller Coaster...but I'd rather have a non-themed (but fairly pretty) coaster like Screamin' rushing me through the beautiful open air than anything with Rock n' Roller Coaster's theme: Speeding in a limo to attend an Aerosmith concert. Speeding (endangering the public) in a limo (like a snob) to attend an Aerosmith concert (I hate their music!).

That's just my feeling about that particular theme. I'd be all for an enclosed looper with a different story, though.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Now, this is just my personal opinion, cause I know a lot of people love Rock n' Roller Coaster...but I'd rather have a non-themed (but fairly pretty) coaster like Screamin' rushing me through the beautiful open air than anything with Rock n' Roller Coaster's theme: Speeding in a limo to attend an Aerosmith concert. Speeding (endangering the public) in a limo (like a snob) to attend an Aerosmith concert (I hate their music!).

That's just my feeling about that particular theme. I'd be all for an enclosed looper with a different story, though.

I think RRC is a poor experience compared to Screamin'. Big build up. Little payoff. Sometimes less really is more.

 

[dweezil78]

I think RRC is a poor experience compared to Screamin'. Big build up. Little payoff. Sometimes less really is more.

Yeah -- everything aside from the actually coaster part is pretty well done. Once you're on there though, it's like Superstar Limo: Coaster Edition with a bunch of cartoony cardboard cutouts. Even still, with the music blasting it's a pretty fun ride even if it does knock you around a bit. I'm pretty surprised they haven't swapped out any new bands throughout the years though. The pre-show video would be easy enough to swap out as would the music. I wonder what the deal w/ Aerosmith looks like and why they've lasted as long as they have.

 

[bluerhythym]

I don't think anyone is trying to convince you that you are actually on a real pier over the ocean, that would be impossible. No land as immersive as they are can overcome the reality of that. Do people actually believe that Anaheim has a huge desert with large mountain peaks next to Katella? i doubt it. I don't believe people are expected to literally believe that they are dash.

Isn't that the point of theming? To give you the feeling of being transported to another world? No, I don't truly believe I'm elsewhere, not until Disney invents a pill that can make it so. But I can play along a lot better with the proper placemaking.

ps - about that pill

 

[bluerhythym]

Now, this is just my personal opinion, cause I know a lot of people love Rock n' Roller Coaster...but I'd rather have a non-themed (but fairly pretty) coaster like Screamin' rushing me through the beautiful open air than anything with Rock n' Roller Coaster's theme: Speeding in a limo to attend an Aerosmith concert. Speeding (endangering the public) in a limo (like a snob) to attend an Aerosmith concert (I hate their music!).

That's just my feeling about that particular theme. I'd be all for an enclosed looper with a different story, though.

I was a kid the last time I was at WDW, so my memory of that ride might not be the best. I do love Screamin' as a coaster, but Rock n Rollercoaster still has the thrill factor while giving an effort at theming. That last brake run in Screamin' might be one of the sorriest locations in the whole resort.

Let me just say, I think the changes to Screamin' are an upgrade. A new queue building, a show scene at the end, water effects (I wish they'd just bring back the waves...) are all a-okay by me. I just wish they could've done it while adapting the Victorian boardwalk theming instead of the Incredibles. I still think the bare skeleton and terrible sightlines will forever keep this coaster from being a great Disney attraction.

 

[Travel Junkie]

I think the bar is set higher for DCA for a couple reasons. One being the parks name and history. The park has completely moved away from the whole “visit California” theme but the name hasnt and neither have all of the lands. Personally I think the name is fine and wouldn’t want it to be changed. Disneyland’s theme, is much more broad and the fact that it is a “magic kingdom” means that it’s easier to justify certain “inconsistencies.” Second, DCA is still young. Not even 20 years old. At a certain point, if and when they stop tinkering with the park, most people will be able to look past certain inconsistencies as they will have been “grandfathered in” so to speak. Third, Disneyland created the mold for themeparks. It’s really hard to compare it to any other theme parks. They were figuring it out as they went along to get to the point of artistry and story telling they can achieve today. They should always move forward. Not go backwards.

And to add since it is a newer theme park, It should be better than DL in certain aspects. It is better in terms of crowd control, but compared to its older sibling seems to have regressed in theming. I think people are harder on DCA and perhaps should be because they have learned so much since DL was built and should put those into practice.

 

[Rich T]

...That last brake run in Screamin' might be one of the sorriest locations in the whole resort.

Totally agree. It's as if the theme was to suddenly make you feel like you're at Magic Mountain.

 

[mickEblu]

And to add since it is a newer theme park, It should be better than DL in certain aspects. It is better in terms of crowd control, but compared to its older sibling seems to have regressed in theming. I think people are harder on DCA and perhaps should be because they have learned so much since DL was built and should put those into practice.

Exactly.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

And to add since it is a newer theme park, It should be better than DL in certain aspects. It is better in terms of crowd control, but compared to its older sibling seems to have regressed in theming. I think people are harder on DCA and perhaps should be because they have learned so much since DL was built and should put those into practice.

There's literally nothing stopping Disney from upgrading, retrofitting, and remodeling the parts of DL that need to be brought into the 21st Century. Some of those areas might be physically challenging to change without major investment, but surely the queues for the Bobsleds and the Subs could easily be given more storytelling, and the overflow pass behind Main Street could be more than just a barely themed alley. And don't get me started on the empty Peoplemover tracks, Gadget's Go-Coaster, the non-functional Orbitron or the gasoline powered Autopia cars. These are all simple fixes. To me each Disney park should be judged on the same set of standards, so DL does not get a pass from me for mediocrity just because it's old.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Have been to seaside piers myself and have seen pictures and postcards that my dad has of old seaside piers. Never have I seen any of these piers where there was one continuous theme. I have seen pictures of mountains built on a Pier with an old coaster in it, haunted mansions with vampire themes as well as other oddly bizarre ideas.
I see no difference in what Disney is doing with the idea for this Pier, a collection of stories integrated into some kind of ride system. I think it’s all about stepping away from reality and getting yourself Into the storyline. Forgetting that you are in a coaster car and maybe imagining that you are one of the characters zipping thru the action.
We could say that this is similar to the original idea of the Snow White scary adventure. The guest was Snow White going thru scenes of the story. I don’t think anyone cares that you are sitting in a wooden car with dwarves names carved in them zipping thru the forest. We do the same on Pinocchio sitting on a wooden car that zips thru the wood shop and thru pleasure island and then somewhow over the ocean to be almost be eaten by a whale.

You’re contradicting yourself. Amusement parks are not about getting into the story. They had dark rides and other story-based experiences but they were not integral to their experience and identity. They were also not brand experiences.

I'm not even close to being a huge fan of the Pixar-fication of the pier, but is adding a light theme to a (nearly) unthemed coaster really going to detract from the experience? Is the current placemaking of the pier currently so realistic that you feel adding an Incredibles scene at the station is going to break this deep illusion that you've been magically transported to some real California pier far away from Disneyland?

It's funny how people whined and moaned for years about how the pier was so basic and unthemed, but now they want to cling to that...

Theme is established above the attraction level, at the land park level. California Screamin’ is having a linear narrative added, not a theme.

Yes, but if someone comes from a small town with a quaint little Main Street, when they visit Disneyland they're going to say Main Street reminds them of back home, no?

No, before Disneyland those Main Streets were being abandoned. Main Street, USA was part of renewing interest in these places and they were revived in its image.

 

[Travel Junkie]

There's literally nothing stopping Disney from upgrading, retrofitting, and remodeling the parts of DL that need to be brought into the 21st Century. Some of those areas might be physically challenging to change without major investment, but surely the queues for the Bobsleds and the Subs could easily be given more storytelling, and the overflow pass behind Main Street could be more than just a barely themed alley. And don't get me started on the empty Peoplemover tracks, Gadget's Go-Coaster, the non-functional Orbitron or the gasoline powered Autopia cars. These are all simple fixes. To me each Disney park should be judged on the same set of standards, so DL does not get a pass from me for mediocrity just because it's old.

I agree with most of that, but people have such an attachment to DL they seem more forgiving of its faults. Also I think that DL's strength's are its faults. The narrow pathways give it an intimate feeling that other Disney parks lack, but also make it difficult to get around.

They have made some strides to try and improve the infrastructure to imo mixed results. The Market House was redesigned to handle the crowds that wanted Starbucks, but it lost a lot of its charm in my view. Needed but at a cost. That's going to be challenge for the park in the future. They can widen walkways and improve crowd flow, but I fear it loses part of what makes it special in the process.

DCA though had the opportunity to take all Disney had learned about about theme parks since DL and take it to the next level. Tokyo Disney Sea did, DCA did not. It's too bad circumstances got in the way and the budget was cut on DCA.

 

[Phroobar]

Good point, and once the dust settles it'll still be the same ride.

...And you will all love it when it reopens. Lines will be 100 minutes for basically the same coaster we rode for almost twenty years.

Disney forum posters always hate new rethemes and then love it when it opens.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I agree with most of that, but people have such an attachment to DL they seem more forgiving of its faults. Also I think that DL's strength's are its faults.

Yep, the park is given an unfair advantage out of the gate because of its history and the years of online criticism levied against DCA. YMMV, but many of the "charming" aspects of DL feel dated, aimed at kids, or overly focused on locals. To me it's unfair to criticize DCA for weakly themed parts of DCA AND ignore similar problems at DL when Disney could easily uplevel the storytelling at both parks.

They can widen walkways and improve crowd flow, but I fear it loses part of what makes it special in the process.

I'm not even suggesting that they do that, although it would be a good idea. I'm pointing out that there are some noticeable and awkward thematic problems at Disney's flagship Magic Kingdom, thematic issues that have existed for decades and could be easily remedied. Disney is investing $1 billion in SW:GE, and meanwhile Tomorrowland is literally falling apart and its theme is an incoherent mess.

DCA though had the opportunity to take all Disney had learned about about theme parks since DL and take it to the next level. Tokyo Disney Sea did, DCA did not. It's too bad circumstances got in the way and the budget was cut on DCA.

Absolutely. It's also too bad that Disney doesn't take BOTH parks to the next level when they obviously have the resources to do so.

 

[dweezil78]

Theme is established above the attraction level, at the land park level. California Screamin’ is having a linear narrative added, not a theme.

Ha ok fine... we're talking semantics here. You're being a bit generous with 'linear narrative' though!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ha ok fine... we're talking semantics here. You're being a bit generous with 'linear narrative' though!

Everything and anything being called theme and theming removes meaning from the term and any sense of accomplishment from the most celebrated themed experiences.

 

[dweezil78]

Everything and anything being called theme and theming removes meaning from the term and any sense of accomplishment from the most celebrated themed experiences.

I apologize for the strict code of themed entertainment law I have totally violated here. I don't know if I can ever forgive myself!