Paint the night is not moving to Disney World. Stop bumping this.

[TP2000]

Because they think we won't care.

That's the cynical answer that I can support.

But I also have to believe there's a justifiable business case for this strategic decision that will be felt for at least a year or two, if not until a replacement parade is funded for the 50th in 2021. What is TDO thinking here?!?

 

[brb1006]

I think the big question is just why exactly did Disneyland want MSEP back? I understand PTN will be down, but they're used to not having a night parade. I have to wonder if this is the actual last hurrah for the parade for public viewing, with plans to preserve it for historical purposes somewhere after that.

"I have to wonder if this is the actual last hurrah for the parade for public viewing, with plans to preserve it for historical purposes somewhere after that"
I think it was that.

 

[FigmentForver96]

That's the cynical answer that I can support.

But I also have to believe there's a justifiable business case for this strategic decision that will be felt for at least a year or two, if not until a replacement parade is funded for the 50th in 2021. What is TDO thinking here?!?

They think that they can do it because all the little fanbois and girls will flock to Disney no matter what. It seems the last decade Disney has learned a lot of that they could literally wrap **** in a bow and place the name Disney on it and people will buy passes. It's so sad because they will continue to push and push until it breaks and its apparent that it isn't happening soon.

 

[jpeden]

They think that they can do it because all the little fanbois and girls will flock to Disney no matter what. It seems the last decade Disney has learned a lot of that they could literally wrap **** in a bow and place the name Disney on it and people will buy passes. It's so sad because they will continue to push and push until it breaks and its apparent that it isn't happening soon.

I actually disagree. I think we are teetering on the breaking point and I think that their Q4 numbers are going to reveal if they've pushed it over the edge or if there are a few more straws left. I expect there to be a decent drop in attendance for Q4.

 

[cslafferty]

Could it be they are expecting so many people to be at AK for ROL that they don't feel it's worth the $$ to run a night parade at MK for now, at least until the newness of ROL wears off???

 

[TTA94]

Time will tell but it is still possible TDO may move ahead with the new parade soon, maybe late next year. I think for right now they are not that concern with not having a light parade due to the seasonal parties at MK and RoL opening soon.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Time will tell but it is still possible TDO may move ahead with the new parade soon, maybe late next year. I think for right now they are not that concern with not having a light parade due to the seasonal parties at MK and RoL opening soon.

You think they are only worried about the next three months?

 

[TTA94]

You think they are only worried about the next three months?

I meant for the next three months they don't need a light parade due to MNSSHP and MVMCP, plus the opening of RoL. Next year however will be ruff especially when Spring hits.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I meant for the next three months they don't need a light parade due to MNSSHP and MVMCP, plus the opening of RoL. Next year however will be ruff especially when Spring hits.

There is no such coordination in how Walt Disney World operates. People going too Disney's Animal Kingdom at night instead of the Magic Kingdom is bad for the Magic Kingdom.

 

[Notes from Neverland]

Realistically, will the removal of a nightly parade stop the casual visitor or first-time visitor from going to Disney World or the Magic Kingdom? No, of course not. The decision to not have a nighttime parade for the foreseeable future upsets the minority, not the majority who may not even know the difference.

It's amazing how some think this one change will suddenly tank numbers or produce some sort of tangible effect on the attendance. It's a bad move to not have a nightly parade and it's one I imagine will be rectified in the nearish future, but it's laughable that it's lead to any sort of negative effects on the actual attendance figures.

 

[Next Big Thing]

There is no such coordination in how Walt Disney World operates. People going too Disney's Animal Kingdom at night instead of the Magic Kingdom is bad for the Magic Kingdom.

No, nothing is bad about relieving people from MK. Park ops hates how crowded MK gets and most of the reason they all go to MK is because they are practically forced their hand because it's the only park open late enough to bother with.

Avatar will not completely fix DAK's issues. TSL and SWL will not completely fix DHS. However, it will start a shift in crowds, nighttime parade or not.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No, nothing is bad about relieving people from MK. Park ops hates how crowded MK gets and most of the reason they all go to MK is because they are practically forced their hand because it's the only park open late enough to bother with.

Avatar will not completely fix DAK's issues. TSL and SWL will not completely fix DHS. However, it will start a shift in crowds, nighttime parade or not.

Logistics of crowd control have no bearing on how Walt Disney World is organized and success measured internally. Less people not going anywhere is bad for that venue.

 

[ford91exploder]

Thank you for the follow up information! It's always nice to hear things from folks who would know something.



That's not the first time we've heard about the size restrictions along Magic Kingdom's parade route. It's just so ironic that ride-packed little Disneyland can host bigger parades in its 1955 footprint than sprawling Magic Kingdom with fewer rides and it's "blessing of size" can.

What's most shocking is that this August's Miceage reports seem to be more accurate by the day; that Disneyland is going to great expense to keep a night parade going this winter until both PTN and Fantasmic! can come back from their big refurbishments in June, 2017.

And through at least calendar year 2017 Magic Kingdom management is planning to do... Nothing. The question remains, why??? It's just weird.

Because the executive team for Orlando does not get bonuses for INCREASING capital and operational spending.

Not having a MK night parade is going to save millions of dollars over the next year and this same team expects based on past performance it will have little to no effect on gate clicks at the MK if anything it might sell more merchandise because there is no longer a reason for the people not to visit the shops for 1-2 hours per evening.

It's all about the Benjamins and that's all you need to understand about this behavior.

 

[ford91exploder]

You think they are only worried about the next three months?

Yep they need to close out FY17 strong to keep the stock price afloat, Remember WE are no longer TWDC's customers, Wall St is TWDC's customer guests only are the wallets to feed Wall St's expectations.

 

[ford91exploder]

I actually disagree. I think we are teetering on the breaking point and I think that their Q4 numbers are going to reveal if they've pushed it over the edge or if there are a few more straws left. I expect there to be a decent drop in attendance for Q4.

There is an inflection point and I agree Disney is likely to hit it in the next year or so. I think their holiday numbers are going to be off mainly because of the Osborne Light's removal, I wonder how many guests have scheduled their holiday around the Osborne Lights not realizing last year was the last year for the lights it will be fun watching the social media meltdowns which will follow.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Yep they need to close out FY17 strong to keep the stock price afloat, Remember WE are no longer TWDC's customers, Wall St is TWDC's customer guests only are the wallets to feed Wall St's expectations.

This, x1000. The minute Iger was tabbed as Eisner's successor is the minute when the bean counters really took over and guests stopped being TWDC's focus and it was instead shifted to Wall St. stock ANALysts. [Of course, I believe that stock ANALysts are the bane of the financial world and exist only to screw over customers/consumers and manipulate stock prices.]

 

[TP2000]

Because the executive team for Orlando does not get bonuses for INCREASING capital and operational spending.

Not having a MK night parade is going to save millions of dollars over the next year and this same team expects based on past performance it will have little to no effect on gate clicks at the MK if anything it might sell more merchandise because there is no longer a reason for the people not to visit the shops for 1-2 hours per evening.

And I get all that and can buy into it, although it's at the cynical limit for me.

But the weak link in that theory is that the TDO execs have the same boss that the TDA execs do; Bob Chapek.

The TDA execs are going the opposite route here with night entertainment; taking on a huge winter refurbishment for their 2 year old night parade, Paint The Night, while Fantasmic! gets retooled into an all-new show at the same time. TDA then spends even more money to ship out and stage the MSEP from WDW as a temporary stop-gap measure to keep a night parade going until next June.

Which gets us to next summer, when presumably ROL would be open at WDW and Fantasmic! 2.0 would be open at Disneyland. And using the times guides of the last few summers you'd get this entertainment rundown of major parades and spectaculars (with options to add third nightly showings of Fantasmic! 2.0 at Disneyland and ROL at DAK)

Disneyland Resort = Nine (9) Daily Parade/Spectacular Performances
1 Pixar Play Parade performance, 1 Mickey's Soundsational Parade performance, 2 Paint The Night Parade performances, 2 World of Color performances, 2 Fantasmic! 2.0 peformances, 1 Disneyland fireworks (new Star Wars show that Spirit mentioned?).

Walt Disney World Resort = Nine (9) Daily Parade/Spectacular Performances
2 Festival of Fantasy performances, 2 Rivers of Light performances, 2 Fantasmic! performances, 1 IllumiNations performance, 1 Wishes fireworks, 1 Star Wars fireworks.

You would think there'd be a lot more parades and spectaculars at WDW's four parks compared to little, tiny Disneyland. And yet TDO just gave up their lone night parade with no replacement in sight. The spending behavior and decision-making at TDA seems in direct contrast to TDO, and vice-versa. And yet they both have the same boss in Burbank who would theoretically be holding them to the same standards of financial performance.

It's all just very odd. TDO's recent behavior just doesn't make sense in the bigger picture. I wish someone would write a business book about that place!

 

[ford91exploder]

And I get all that and can buy into it, although it's at the cynical limit for me.

But the weak link in that theory is that the TDO execs have the same boss that the TDA execs do; Bob Chapek.

The TDA execs are going the opposite route here with night entertainment; taking on a huge winter refurbishment for their 2 year old night parade, Paint The Night, while Fantasmic! gets retooled into an all-new show at the same time. TDA then spends even more money to ship out and stage the MSEP from WDW as a temporary stop-gap measure to keep a night parade going until next June.

Which gets us to next summer, when presumably ROL would be open at WDW and Fantasmic! 2.0 would be open at Disneyland. And using the times guides of the last few summers you'd get this entertainment rundown of major parades and spectaculars (with options to add third nightly showings of Fantasmic! 2.0 at Disneyland and ROL at DAK)

Disneyland Resort = Nine (9) Daily Parade/Spectacular Performances
1 Pixar Play Parade performance, 1 Mickey's Soundsational Parade performance, 2 Paint The Night Parade performances, 2 World of Color performances, 2 Fantasmic! 2.0 peformances, 1 Disneyland fireworks (new Star Wars show that Spirit mentioned?).

Walt Disney World Resort = Nine (9) Daily Parade/Spectacular Performances
2 Festival of Fantasy performances, 2 Rivers of Light performances, 2 Fantasmic! performances, 1 IllumiNations performance, 1 Wishes fireworks, 1 Star Wars fireworks.

You would think there'd be a lot more parades and spectaculars at WDW's four parks compared to little, tiny Disneyland. And yet TDO just gave up their lone night parade with no replacement in sight. The spending behavior and decision-making at TDA seems in direct contrast to TDO, and vice-versa. And yet they both have the same boss in Burbank who would theoretically be holding them to the same standards of financial performance.

It's all just very odd. TDO's recent behavior just doesn't make sense in the bigger picture. I wish someone would write a business book about that place!

I think the TDO/TDA difference can be described as TDA is primarily driven by locals and AP holders and Disney is not the 'Big Dog' in the LA area employment market so TDA has to be responsive to it's local audience and the ONLY way it's going to meet it's financial goals is by staying 'Fresh'. But even at TDA where Pressler's policies got people killed we now have one of Pressler's disciples Mikey C trying to restart the whole malign cycle of cuts all over again.

TDO is a tourist destination and Disney has the guests in the 'Bubble' and so Disney effectively has little competition for the Vacation dollar unlike the situation in the LA basin where there is almost infinite competition for the vacation dollar.

So WDW has discovered that it can 'cut' it's way to better financials, Unfortunately that's not sustainable long term and the attendance drops this summer are pointing to that, But Disney is fat dumb and happy with it's 'Numbers' but once they hit the guest satisfaction inflection point it's going to go from bad to much worse in the blink of an eye, Already the financial press is wondering whether Disney has cut 'too much' and raised prices beyond what the market will sustain.

Personally I passed the first anniversary of NOT renewing my family's AP's That was over 4K per year - now that's 8K which Disney did not get from me. It's amazing what we've done with the money we USED to spend at WDW.

 

[jrhwdw]

Well, just checked the calendar again, MK moved MRFF to afternoon/evening on non party days. Last show starts at 7:30, Should be interesting to see MRFF at night! It's not another parade but its something.

 

[jrhwdw]

Well, just checked the calendar again, MK moved MRFF to afternoon/evening on non party days. Last show starts at 7:30, Should be interesting to see MRFF at night! It's not another parade but its something.

Actually, the new schedule starts 10//3, before MSEP ends. Why? Who knows.