News Pacific Wharf to be Reimagined into San Fransokyo

[lazyboy97o]

After this install and the trouble in ToonTown, I think perhaps someone in TDA needs to rethink the contractors they hire.

Just curious..... Is this an industry-wide problem, post COVID?

You’re asking if this is a bigger problem but you know the contractors are the problem?

 

[Consumer]

You’re asking if this is a bigger problem but you know the contractors are the problem?

I believe the doctor is asking if there is a bigger problem amongst contractors.

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

After this install and the trouble in ToonTown, I think perhaps someone in TDA needs to rethink the contractors they hire.

Just curious..... Is this an industry-wide problem, post COVID?

Speaking as someone running out of time to get a roof fixed before the rains come as ours leaks with every storm requiring regular bailing out with buckets I can tell you the responses we've gotten as an example of construction life in SoCal:

Roofer #1 - I'd have to re-roof your entire place to guarantee the work for a couple of years - $20k+ if absolutely no problems found, $30k+ if problems found after we rip roof off

Roofer #2 - I can repair the problem area of your roof for $10k+ if no additional problems found, more if problems found after we rip up roof and I'll guarantee the work *if it's proven to be a problem with something I did* for one year

Roofer #3 - yeah, I won't even take the job to fix your roof - you'll keep having problems with it anyway


Disney may be bigger, but they may be getting the same level of "service".

Meanwhile, lining up more buckets for the winter ahead...

 

[lazyboy97o]

Speaking as someone running out of time to get a roof fixed before the rains come as ours leaks with every storm requiring regular bailing out with buckets I can tell you the responses we've gotten as an example of construction life in SoCal:

Roofer #1 - I'd have to re-roof your entire place to guarantee the work for a couple of years - $20k+ if absolutely no problems found, $30k+ if problems found after we rip roof off

Roofer #2 - I can repair the problem area of your roof for $10k+ if no additional problems found, more if problems found after we rip up roof and I'll guarantee the work *if it's proven to be a problem with something I did* for one year

Roofer #3 - yeah, I won't even take the job to fix your roof - you'll keep having problems with it anyway


Disney may be bigger, but they may be getting the same level of "service".

Meanwhile, lining up more buckets for the winter ahead...

That sounds like honest service. Those multi-year warranties typically come from the manufacturer, not the contractor, who has designed and tested a system which is why they want the whole roof to be replaced. It’s the only way they can have any understanding of what is done instead of trying to design and test for an infinite range of possible patches and repairs with other systems and components. A one year warranty is also rather standard for a contractor’s work that not part of a manufacturer’s warranty. Concealed damage is always a challenge because the scope of work cannot be known until you rip things open and which point you’re committed to doing work. Unfortunately it sounds like they think there is some sort of design flaw that simply reroofing is not going to properly address.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

After this install and the trouble in ToonTown, I think perhaps someone in TDA needs to rethink the contractors they hire.

Just curious..... Is this an industry-wide problem, post COVID?

One part of what I do that I'm not too fond of is hiring drilling contractors so as to get us subsurface samples for soil characterization and lab testing. There has been a noticeable downtick in quality of services across all companies we use accompanied by an annoying increase in price. Drillers and their helpers are all less experienced, more often not great workers, and downright lazy in some instances.

As in many professions, the labor shortage caused a lack of proper training for new hires and it's hurting things.

In a situation such as this bridge, there are multiple levels at which the issues could have arisen-
- Poor initial design, which involves fault mid to high end Imagineers (they sign the plans). This can lead to the cheap look as it was simply designed 'cheap' (concrete footings and a thin metal cover slapped on).
- If something was not fully thought through or created/designed at different points by different people ending in a plan that had issues (such as the obvious square concrete footer conflicting with the themed metal cover), that's a fault from lowly cad drafter to upper level project management issue as the entire team did not catch issues and bring it up (mostly upper management fully reviewing the plans and catch the problems (again, they sign the plans)).
- Part of design is materials, if they were poorly chosen (flimsy, cheap, not a material that would be clean looking), that again puts fault to mid/upper management and poor choices.
- Construction timing- this one is always not necessarily anyone's fault, can be any level, but ultimately falls on whoever the project manager is from Imagineering. They are the ones with their finger on the project pulse and conducting their underlings to assure that the project is being done on schedule. Weather happens though and is an unknown, but the bridge issues are beyond weather delays.
- Shoddy construction work. This is something that is two fold... crappy work being done by a crappy contractor is one thing, but Disney is ultimately responsible as they have some form of quality control in place whether it's a 3rd party, in house, contractor supplied, or in writing to assure that what the contractor is installing is up to what is in the plans and project documentation. If the contractor doesn't install the themed metal sheeting onto the concrete footings properly or is missing screws in places, whatever quality control system is in place for the project should catch that and inform the contractor that the product is not installed correctly and needs to be redone.

Judging by what we're seeing on the bridge... it seems to be along the lines of poor design and cheap material selection which fall on Imagineering.
- The plans seem to have had some oversights (whether it be detail conflicts or lack of details in certain areas)
- The design itself is cheap... and the selected materials are cheap (thin powder coated sheet metal for the exterior).

The contractor very well may have received the materials on site and gotten them into place... noted that they don't fit right... mentioned it to project management... and project management likely told them "make it work.", so they did. That's what we ended up with.

 

[CaptinEO]

One part of what I do that I'm not too fond of is hiring drilling contractors so as to get us subsurface samples for soil characterization and lab testing. There has been a noticeable downtick in quality of services across all companies we use accompanied by an annoying increase in price. Drillers and their helpers are all less experienced, more often not great workers, and downright lazy in some instances.

As in many professions, the labor shortage caused a lack of proper training for new hires and it's hurting things.

In a situation such as this bridge, there are multiple levels at which the issues could have arisen-
- Poor initial design, which involves fault mid to high end Imagineers (they sign the plans). This can lead to the cheap look as it was simply designed 'cheap' (concrete footings and a thin metal cover slapped on).
- If something was not fully thought through or created/designed at different points by different people ending in a plan that had issues (such as the obvious square concrete footer conflicting with the themed metal cover), that's a fault from lowly cad drafter to upper level project management issue as the entire team did not catch issues and bring it up (mostly upper management fully reviewing the plans and catch the problems (again, they sign the plans)).
- Part of design is materials, if they were poorly chosen (flimsy, cheap, not a material that would be clean looking), that again puts fault to mid/upper management and poor choices.
- Construction timing- this one is always not necessarily anyone's fault, can be any level, but ultimately falls on whoever the project manager is from Imagineering. They are the ones with their finger on the project pulse and conducting their underlings to assure that the project is being done on schedule. Weather happens though and is an unknown, but the bridge issues are beyond weather delays.
- Shoddy construction work. This is something that is two fold... crappy work being done by a crappy contractor is one thing, but Disney is ultimately responsible as they have some form of quality control in place whether it's a 3rd party, in house, contractor supplied, or in writing to assure that what the contractor is installing is up to what is in the plans and project documentation. If the contractor doesn't install the themed metal sheeting onto the concrete footings properly or is missing screws in places, whatever quality control system is in place for the project should catch that and inform the contractor that the product is not installed correctly and needs to be redone.

Judging by what we're seeing on the bridge... it seems to be along the lines of poor design and cheap material selection which fall on Imagineering.
- The plans seem to have had some oversights (whether it be detail conflicts or lack of details in certain areas)
- The design itself is cheap... and the selected materials are cheap (thin powder coated sheet metal for the exterior).

The contractor very well may have received the materials on site and gotten them into place... noted that they don't fit right... mentioned it to project management... and project management likely told them "make it work.", so they did. That's what we ended up with.

This. Even though Disney does use contractors (as doss any company) the end result of these projects is their own responsibility. And it does go all the way up to management. Someone is in charge of this project in a multibillion dollar company. Someone is accountable and should be held accountable.

Who is the DLR president these days? They should be embarrassed at this end result and trying to fix it.

 

[D.Silentu]

There has been a noticeable downtick in quality of services across all companies we use accompanied by an annoying increase in price.

I hate cynicism, yet I can't help but observe that this may be the most accurate statement regarding goods and services post 2020.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

I hate cynicism, yet I can't help but observe that this may be the most accurate statement regarding goods and services post 2020.

It's frustrating. I'm arguing right now with a contractor up in Sacramento we worked with a couple weeks ago... their service was downright bad... and compared to how things generally went a few years ago, they took ~40% longer to do the work, and they're charging us a rate of ~40% more. We are kinda stuck on this one though because we were limited on who we could use due to site security restrictions etc.

Ugh, ok, no work talk on the weekend lol. I gotta get on submitting my Proof of time for the Disneyworld half and the DISNEYLAND half marathon in January!!!! Woooooo!

 

[D.Silentu]

That's the best thing that we can do for the time being, focus on all of the good stuff and try and shake off the negative as best and quickly as we can!

 

[lazyboy97o]

One part of what I do that I'm not too fond of is hiring drilling contractors so as to get us subsurface samples for soil characterization and lab testing. There has been a noticeable downtick in quality of services across all companies we use accompanied by an annoying increase in price. Drillers and their helpers are all less experienced, more often not great workers, and downright lazy in some instances.

As in many professions, the labor shortage caused a lack of proper training for new hires and it's hurting things.

In a situation such as this bridge, there are multiple levels at which the issues could have arisen-
- Poor initial design, which involves fault mid to high end Imagineers (they sign the plans). This can lead to the cheap look as it was simply designed 'cheap' (concrete footings and a thin metal cover slapped on).
- If something was not fully thought through or created/designed at different points by different people ending in a plan that had issues (such as the obvious square concrete footer conflicting with the themed metal cover), that's a fault from lowly cad drafter to upper level project management issue as the entire team did not catch issues and bring it up (mostly upper management fully reviewing the plans and catch the problems (again, they sign the plans)).
- Part of design is materials, if they were poorly chosen (flimsy, cheap, not a material that would be clean looking), that again puts fault to mid/upper management and poor choices.
- Construction timing- this one is always not necessarily anyone's fault, can be any level, but ultimately falls on whoever the project manager is from Imagineering. They are the ones with their finger on the project pulse and conducting their underlings to assure that the project is being done on schedule. Weather happens though and is an unknown, but the bridge issues are beyond weather delays.
- Shoddy construction work. This is something that is two fold... crappy work being done by a crappy contractor is one thing, but Disney is ultimately responsible as they have some form of quality control in place whether it's a 3rd party, in house, contractor supplied, or in writing to assure that what the contractor is installing is up to what is in the plans and project documentation. If the contractor doesn't install the themed metal sheeting onto the concrete footings properly or is missing screws in places, whatever quality control system is in place for the project should catch that and inform the contractor that the product is not installed correctly and needs to be redone.

Judging by what we're seeing on the bridge... it seems to be along the lines of poor design and cheap material selection which fall on Imagineering.
- The plans seem to have had some oversights (whether it be detail conflicts or lack of details in certain areas)
- The design itself is cheap... and the selected materials are cheap (thin powder coated sheet metal for the exterior).

The contractor very well may have received the materials on site and gotten them into place... noted that they don't fit right... mentioned it to project management... and project management likely told them "make it work.", so they did. That's what we ended up with.

Walt Disney Imagineering doesn’t sign drawings.

The concrete is not square. Even the steel baseplates are notched so as not to be square.

Cheap would be paint, not a high gloss factory applied finish. Even then, dimensional issues this great would not be caused by the finish.

The metal panels are not attached to the concrete foundations, theyre just a cap and actually attached to the steel.

There are a variety of ways something like this could have been procured depending on whether all or part of it was considered facility design (the “bones” of a themed entertainment project) with less involvement from Walt Disney Imagineering or showset (the theming) with more involvement. That categorization can also change the number and types of contractors involved.

Since this is more of a renovation project than a new build it is also possible that FAM (Facility Asset Management) was in charge and that further changes the responsibilities.

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

That sounds like honest service. Those multi-year warranties typically come from the manufacturer, not the contractor, who has designed and tested a system which is why they want the whole roof to be replaced. It’s the only way they can have any understanding of what is done instead of trying to design and test for an infinite range of possible patches and repairs with other systems and components. A one year warranty is also rather standard for a contractor’s work that not part of a manufacturer’s warranty. Concealed damage is always a challenge because the scope of work cannot be known until you rip things open and which point you’re committed to doing work. Unfortunately it sounds like they think there is some sort of design flaw that simply reroofing is not going to properly address.

Quite possibly. But I don't have $10-$15k to spend to only guarantee part of the roof for one year. Nor do I have $20-$30k to re-roof the entire structure which might not even fix the problem area.

What I have is - no answer to the problem of a roof that is leaking and has ruined ceilings and flooring and threatens to ruin furnishings and other contents if it continues. And an expected very wet winter ahead.

We may just have to pay someone to tarp it and hope for the best at this point.

Anyway, enough about this frustration. I come here to get away from reality sucking.

How about that bridge? Oh wait.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Easter egg near the Baymax meet and greet.

 

[TP2000]

Who is the DLR president these days? They should be embarrassed at this end result and trying to fix it.

I think it's still the same guy who replaced the lady who wore skintight jeans to work and has since been laid off by Disney.

Whoever it is, he should be embarrassed by this. If he even knows it's a problem. But who would tell him?

He probably had to learn it the hard way; by reading the Miceage weekly report.

 

[SSG]

I think it's still the same guy who replaced the lady who wore skintight jeans to work and has since been laid off by Disney.

Whoever it is, he should be embarrassed by this. If he even knows it's a problem. But who would tell him?

He probably had to learn it the hard way; by reading the Miceage weekly report.

I always think of him as Ken Pop Rock.

KEN POTROCK​

PRESIDENT, DISNEYLAND RESORT

As president of Disneyland Resort, Orange County’s largest employer with over 34,000 Cast Members, Ken Potrock is responsible for all facets of the business, including oversight of Disneyland and Disney California Adventure theme parks, three resort hotels and the Downtown Disney District.

Ken has overseen numerous expansion projects during his time at The Happiest Place on Earth, including the opening of Avengers Campus, the reimagining of Mickey’s Toontown, a new Disney Vacation Club Resort at Disneyland Hotel, and the ongoing transformation of Downtown Disney District and Paradise Pier Hotel – soon to be Pixar Place Hotel.
Ken is a 27-year veteran of The Walt Disney Company and its Parks, Experiences and Products segment. Most recently, he served as president of Consumer Products Commercialization, the company’s global effort to bring beloved characters, brands and stories to consumers via merchandise, games and publishing through the Disney store, shopDisney and across licensing and retail partners.

For most of his Disney career, Ken has led high brand affinity businesses where consumer loyalty and insights were instrumental to growth and expansion, including Disney Vacation Club, the company’s innovative and fast-growing vacation ownership program, Disney Cruise Line, Golden Oak, a luxury residential community in Walt Disney World Resort, and Adventures by Disney, the company's award-winning guided group travel business.

In 2015, Ken led the dramatic expansion and reimagining of Disney Springs, Walt Disney World's iconic retail, dining, and entertainment district. Previously, he was senior vice president of Disney Sports Enterprises, where he led the rebranding of the ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex in Florida. He began his Disney career in 1995 as vice president, Marketing for Disney Cruise Line, where he helped define and launch the company’s bold entry into the cruise industry.

Ken serves on the boards for Children’s Hospital of Orange County and Visit California.

 

[MK-fan]

KEN POTROCK​

PRESIDENT, DISNEYLAND RESORT

As president of Disneyland Resort, Orange County’s largest employer with over 34,000 Cast Members, Ken Potrock is responsible for all facets of the business, including oversight of Disneyland and Disney California Adventure theme parks, three resort hotels and the Downtown Disney District.

Ken has overseen numerous expansion projects during his time at The Happiest Place on Earth, including the opening of Avengers Campus, the reimagining of Mickey’s Toontown, a new Disney Vacation Club Resort at Disneyland Hotel, and the ongoing transformation of Downtown Disney District and Paradise Pier Hotel – soon to be Pixar Place Hotel.
Ken is a 27-year veteran of The Walt Disney Company and its Parks, Experiences and Products segment. Most recently, he served as president of Consumer Products Commercialization, the company’s global effort to bring beloved characters, brands and stories to consumers via merchandise, games and publishing through the Disney store, shopDisney and across licensing and retail partners.

For most of his Disney career, Ken has led high brand affinity businesses where consumer loyalty and insights were instrumental to growth and expansion, including Disney Vacation Club, the company’s innovative and fast-growing vacation ownership program, Disney Cruise Line, Golden Oak, a luxury residential community in Walt Disney World Resort, and Adventures by Disney, the company's award-winning guided group travel business.

In 2015, Ken led the dramatic expansion and reimagining of Disney Springs, Walt Disney World's iconic retail, dining, and entertainment district. Previously, he was senior vice president of Disney Sports Enterprises, where he led the rebranding of the ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex in Florida. He began his Disney career in 1995 as vice president, Marketing for Disney Cruise Line, where he helped define and launch the company’s bold entry into the cruise industry.

Ken serves on the boards for Children’s Hospital of Orange County and Visit

He is not Kenough!

 

[TP2000]

He is not Kenough!

There comes a time in every man's life, even for celebrities like the former Seattle It Boy - Summer 1975, when free drinks from strangers stop being given to us by bartenders.

I give him credit for at least wearing a proper suit and tie for his corporate photo.

In an age where standards of professionalism, decorum and respect have been lowered considerably and on purpose, and even US Senators now show up to work in DC dressed worse than the 20 year old kids working at Jiffy Lube, that's notable.

 

[TP2000]

We may just have to pay someone to tarp it and hope for the best at this point.

That would be very wise. Here in the TP2000 Non-Expert Climate Command Center, I'm expecting a wet winter for the Southwest. Last year at this time the "experts" were telling us to be ready for a very dry and warm winter, and we got exactly the opposite of that. Almost the wettest and coldest on records that go back 160 years.

And of course, there's an El Ninx brewing in the Pacific, but even the experts agree that sometimes El Ninx makes things drier in California instead of wetter. But I'm going with a wet winter. It's been unseasonably cool all summer long, the autumn is already running cooler and damper than normal in SoCal, and my senses are telling me we're going to get plenty of rain this winter all across the Southwest.

You can take that winter prediction to the bank... but the teller will just call the security guard over and ask you to leave.

How about that bridge? Oh wait.

It had been mentioned here that websites were openly worrying that the shoddy bridge panels and missing screws would be a problem this winter during "storms". But winter weather in SoCal is rarely windy, at least above 30mph or so. It's just a steady, moderate rain with light winds.

It's the Santa Ana Winds of autumn that we really need to be concerned about with this bridge's loose panels and missing screws. When those 70mph gusts come howling out of Santiago Canyon, Disneyland can really get some very windy conditions in September/October/November.

But again, luckily for TDA, this autumn has been devoid of Santa Ana winds so far. With none on the horizon and only a cold, damp weekend coming up. This weekend's weather is forecast to be like early December instead of late September.

Perhaps someone upstairs is watching out for WDI's incompetence and has kept the usual Santa Ana winds at bay this fall?

 

[Disney Vault]

Do you think we will get the big sign along the water like in the concept art? It was one of the only parts of the transformation that looked good imo

 

[Disney Analyst]

Based on fresh baked’s latest video, the bridge is being worked on overnight. A lot of the screws / rivets are now covered, in place, and painted to match. Seams seem to be closed up and better.

 

[TP2000]

Based on fresh baked’s latest video, the bridge is being worked on overnight. A lot of the screws / rivets are now covered, in place, and painted to match. Seams seem to be closed up and better.

Good! Just in time for the first Santa Ana's of the season this weekend.