"...outsiders say (Disney's) recent fight with Anaheim is a sign it's (expanding)"

ImaYoyo

Active Member
Original Poster
Is Disney ready to make big thunder? Some outsiders say the firm's recent fight with Anaheim is a sign it's itching to expand. Los Angeles Times (Home Edition) - March 22, 2007 - p B-1, California; Metro DeskBy Dave McKibben and Kimi YoshinoTimes Staff WritersNearly two decades ago, former Walt Disney Co. Chairman Michael Eisner ordered up a grand plan for Southern California. "Amaze me," he told his staff.
They brought him visions of a massive expansion near Disneyland that included an international theme park, three resort hotels and a 6-acre lake.
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That vision never came to fruition, but Disney did open a second theme park in 2001 -- part of a larger goal to build up the Disney Resort and entice tourists to stay longer, like they do in Orlando.
Now, Disney is once again mulling its third act.
Disney won't say what the latest plan is for Anaheim, but sources familiar with the planning process said Disney wants to mimic its Florida blueprint in Anaheim: add time-share units, bring its popular cruise line to the West Coast and zero in on high-end consumers with boutique hotels. New attractions for its lackluster California Adventure are in the works, and Disney is giving fresh consideration to its long-promised third theme park.
Now in complete recovery from 9/11 -- and sitting on a pile of cash after posting 30% revenue increases following its successful 50th anniversary -- Disney is looking ambitiously toward the future.
"It's about changing Anaheim into Orlando -- making this into a national and international tourist space," said blogger Jim Hill, a Disney watchdog.
But Disney's ambitions are ruffling feathers in Anaheim, where some city leaders believe the corporate giant has tried to bully a town that has been its ally for more than 50 years.
The Walt Disney Co. sued the city last month to protect zoning in the 2.2-square-mile Resort District and block construction of a residential project that includes affordable housing. This week, it joined business leaders in seeking a ballot initiative that would lock in the resort-themed zoning it desired and require a citywide vote before changes could be made.
Corporate attorneys succeeded in forcing a councilwoman to abstain from voting on the housing proposal. And it held confidential meetings with city officials, presenting to council members a preview of some of their closely guarded plans.
Disneyland President Ed Grier declined to give specifics but noted that some plans are "around the corner."
"It is very, very important for us," Grier said. "I don't think that can be underestimated.... There's much more of an opportunity for us here."
Disneyland may be where it all started, but it was long ago outpaced by its Florida counterpart, with four theme parks, two water parks, six golf courses and 22 hotel resorts. Walt Disney World accounts for about 80% of the company's theme park operating income, said David Miller, an analyst with Sanders Morris Harris.
"Florida means so much more to the company than Southern California," Miller said.
Still, it was Disneyland's 50th anniversary that spurred people to the parks in 2005 and 2006, contributing to a 30% increase in the parks' income in 2006.
In Anaheim, there's no shortage of demand. Disney's three hotels -- the original Disneyland Hotel, Paradise Pier and the Grand Californian -- are operating at an extraordinary 93% occupancy. Citywide occupancy rates hover around 72%.
The company has slowly but steadily amassed 460 acres in Anaheim, including a prime chunk of strawberry fields down Harbor Boulevard from Disneyland that is the designated site of a third park.
And someone is approaching the field's neighboring landowners, trying to buy up land. Corona del Mar resident Benjamin Kraut, 81, said Disney offered to buy his 5 acres several years ago. Then, six months ago, a suitor Kraut declined to name offered him $14.5 million for the land where he co-owns a 90-unit apartment complex. He said it is not for sale.
Disney hasn't unveiled plans for the Disney Resort -- those typically come amid fanfare and orchestration -- but top executives have hinted at expanding existing markets and increasing its time-share offerings.
Sequestered in a Glendale office building, Disneyland executives privately told Anaheim City Council members recently about "changing the shows, and remodeling or adding rooms" to hotels, Councilman Harry Sidhu said. "They wanted to show us what they were doing to improve the operation."
Other council members expressed frustration that Disney hasn't been more forthcoming with its expansion plans. "If that's what this is all about, then why don't they let the world know about it?" Councilwoman Lucille Kring said.
Councilman Bob Hernandez said it was unreasonable for Disney to influence land-use decisions based on sketchy details of a possible third theme park.
"I don't think it's reasonable for us to ask a developer to hold off developing a property for 25 years because Disney is talking about doing something."
Among the first additions to a revamped resort is likely to be the Disney Vacation Club, which allows members to buy into time-share properties. Minimum membership is $16,400. Disney has eight locations either built or under construction, including six at Walt Disney World, and others in Vero Beach, Fla., and Hilton Head, S.C. Membership has doubled since 2000, with more than 108,000 member families.
"We feel confident that there is still room to grow," Jay Rasulo, chairman of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, said in a recent speech to investors. "The time-share industry is huge and expanding, and families will still look to Disney when they think of their vacations."
In addition to Anaheim, Hawaii, Mexico and the Caribbean have been mentioned as potential new destinations.
But the key problem in Anaheim is the same as it has been since 1989, when Eisner first asked his top creative minds to think big.
"People come out to Southern California for a week," said Miller, the analyst. "Of that seven-day vacation, Disneyland used to only capture one day. Now it captures 2.5 days. They want to capture all those days."
The answer so far has been Disney's California Adventure, a companion park that opened in 2001 to offer more thrills than the nostalgia and fantasy captured at Disneyland. Fans have never fully embraced the underperforming park, and even Disney executives concede they need to add more attractions before embarking on a third gate.
The next solution, Miller said, is to follow Orlando's model and market a combo cruise and resort vacation.
Disney Cruise Line announced last month it is building two ocean liners to add to its fleet.
In 2005, for Disneyland's 50th anniversary, Disney Magic headed to the West Coast for sailings to the Mexican Riviera. The cruises sold out in minutes, Miller said, and were so successful that the company recently announced it would return to the West Coast in 2008.
Beyond that, Rasulo's talk of "niche parks" has sparked curiosity among Disney watchers. Those parks would be higher priced and offer a more intimate experience, Rasulo said during the investors speech.
The model is Discovery Cove in Orlando, which limits admission to 1,000 people a day for a hefty price tag of $259, including a swim with dolphins. The park is a blend of a day at SeaWorld and a vacation in the Bahamas.
"It's a fascinating idea, but it's a significantly different audience and a significantly different price point," Hill said.
That admission price might not sit well with vacationing families, though miceage.com editor Al Lutz noted that a niche park and boutique hotels would be Disney's attempt to attract "the W Hotel crowd."
"They've got something in mind," Lutz said, noting that Disney's fight against the city isn't about one proposal to put affordable housing near the resort. It's about the bigger picture.
"If you're going to put in a high-end park and a high-end hotel, the housing project stands out like a sore thumb among everything else they are working on."
 

ImaYoyo

Active Member
Original Poster
I know this would normally go in DL, but I thought it might fit here as a discussion as to what people would think about essentially making a 2nd Disney World out of Disneyland...:shrug:
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
I know this would normally go in DL, but I thought it might fit here as a discussion as to what people would think about essentially making a 2nd Disney World out of Disneyland...:shrug:
It won`t become a `2nd Disney World` - DLP is way ahead in that respect, and TDL is in 3rd.

There are big moves afoot in Ahaheim however....
 

Enderikari

Well-Known Member
Dear Purveyors of the Los Angeles Times -

In the interest of promoting good journalism, and in an effort to preserve what is left of your ethics in reporting, let me pass on one piece of advice.

Internet Demagogues Jim Hill and Al Lutz ARE NOT SOURCES... You might as well pick up a college student in Nebraska, or a vagrant off the street and ask his opinion.

Sincerely,
Enderikari
 

phichi17

New Member
Dear Purveyors of the Los Angeles Times -

In the interest of promoting good journalism, and in an effort to preserve what is left of your ethics in reporting, let me pass on one piece of advice.

Internet Demagogues Jim Hill and Al Lutz ARE NOT SOURCES... You might as well pick up a college student in Nebraska, or a vagrant off the street and ask his opinion.

Sincerely,
Enderikari
Well said. BTW, hi!
 

ImaYoyo

Active Member
Original Poster
Dear Purveyors of the Los Angeles Times -

In the interest of promoting good journalism, and in an effort to preserve what is left of your ethics in reporting, let me pass on one piece of advice.

Internet Demagogues Jim Hill and Al Lutz ARE NOT SOURCES... You might as well pick up a college student in Nebraska, or a vagrant off the street and ask his opinion.

Sincerely,
Enderikari
Love it:)
 

Shaman

Well-Known Member
Dear Purveyors of the Los Angeles Times -

In the interest of promoting good journalism, and in an effort to preserve what is left of your ethics in reporting, let me pass on one piece of advice.

Internet Demagogues Jim Hill and Al Lutz ARE NOT SOURCES... You might as well pick up a college student in Nebraska, or a vagrant off the street and ask his opinion.

Sincerely,
Enderikari

:ROFLOL: :ROFLOL: :ROFLOL:

There will probably never be another WDW. It would be cool to see another park in Anaheim. Probably a waterpark? :shrug:
 

EpcotMark

Active Member
Dear Purveyors of the Los Angeles Times -

In the interest of promoting good journalism, and in an effort to preserve what is left of your ethics in reporting, let me pass on one piece of advice.

Internet Demagogues Jim Hill and Al Lutz ARE NOT SOURCES... You might as well pick up a college student in Nebraska, or a vagrant off the street and ask his opinion.

Sincerely,
Enderikari

I concur
 

phichi17

New Member
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Jim Hill booted from Disneyland or WDW for giving unauthorized tours? Why does he continue to "cover" all things related to Disney Parks if he can't even visit them?
 

PhilharMagician

Well-Known Member
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Jim Hill booted from Disneyland or WDW for giving unauthorized tours? Why does he continue to "cover" all things related to Disney Parks if he can't even visit them?
JH was booted from DL

There is absolutely no way that DL could even come close to WDW. The money to aquire that kind of land in Anahiem would be astronomical. There may be a third park added and a hotel or 2, but I would not count on much more than that.
I would imagine Walt kicked himself for not trying to purchase more land in the begining and we all know he vowed to change that when WDW property was purchased.
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
I think Anaheim should show a bit more respect toward Disney. If Disney wasn't there, Anaheim would be nothing. The last thing Disney needs is more houses near the resort so people can wine and complain about the fireworks and noise they knew would occur when they agreed to live there. The city should encourage Disney's decision and goal to expand. It's not just good for Disney, but for the city. IMO, Disney done nothing but good things for the area and I don't get why they treat Disney like crap all the time. Anaheim should be thanking Disney for all they have done for the city. If the city worked with Disney imagine how great the place could be.
 

phichi17

New Member
Other than the strawberry fields (which WDC already owns), what other land is available out there enmasse for purchase and development?
 

phichi17

New Member
I think Anaheim should show a bit more respect toward Disney. If Disney wasn't there, Anaheim would be nothing. The last thing Disney needs is more houses near the resort so people can wine and complain about the fireworks and noise they knew would occur when they agreed to live there. The city should encourage Disney's decision and goal to expand. It's not just good for Disney, but for the city. IMO, Disney done nothing but good things for the area and I don't get why they treat Disney like crap all the time. Anaheim should be thanking Disney for all they have done for the city. If the city worked with Disney imagine how great the place could be.
I disagree with the above highlighted statement only because of the current development around Anaheim. While Disney has had an impact, that real estate would have flourished with or without them. It would not have been travel/tourist oriented to be sure.
 

jmvd20

Well-Known Member
Other than the strawberry fields (which WDC already owns), what other land is available out there enmasse for purchase and development?

"Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever"


I can't believe that Lennon and McCartney really were singing about a real place....
 

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