Yes a HSR line would be more popular if existing rail was connected to destinations in Florida. It was a pita when we took amtrak to disney, we will not make that mistake again until their is an on-site station or disney provides transportation.
Another huge problem with the Tampa-Orlando proposal. No connections! No connection to Amtrak. No connection to SunRail. Even the White House, in its high speed rail plan of which this project is the "first step," only has Florida connected to the proposed national high speed system by an "other rail connection" between Orlando and Jacksonville.
I'm amused by everyone saying HSR in Florida won't work because the density is too low. The reason density in Florida is so low is because most of the state was built up around the interstates and highways and not functioning transit systems. Density FOLLOWS trains, not the other way around.
Why would density follow a single rail line that services a trip nobody is making and nobody would be convenienced by making?
Look up some pictures of New York City when they built their subways and commuter rails. The 7 line was built through Queens in the early 1900s and most of that borough was farmland.
By that time Queens was already a borough of New York City and Manhattan was well established as the economic center of the country. People wanted to be in, and more importantly do business in, Manhattan. Trains to the surrounding areas enabled people to live in the cheaper outskirts while still doing business in Manhattan. Probably the only time people are en masse trying to take the 7 train to Queens, outside of going home, is for Mets games, the US Open or other big events at Flushing Meadows.
The people who want to be in and do business in Tampa are in Tampa. The people who want to be in and do business in Orlando are in Orlando. There are no regularly scheduled flights between the two cities. And if you were going between the two, why drive to the interstate only to pay for a train that is barely faster than your car, and then rent a car or take a taxi to your final destination?
Also, building train systems in already densely populated areas costs a lot more money (we're talking 4 or 5 times more) than building trains in rural environments.
And several people have agreed that a rail link would be a good idea, but not a high speed rail link. The cost, even without having to push through an established, dense population, is still significantly high for the existing demand, which is very low.
Amtrak's plan to upgrade the Acela Express from Boston to New York and Washington is estimated to cost $120 billion.
Over twenty years and it involves acquiring a dedicated right of way, new tunnels and new bridges; significantly different than the existing empty median of I-4. But there is also a known existing ridership for Acela Express, one that is expected to increase as the highways and air routes continue to be used significantly as well.
So while I agree with those saying the alignment isn't ideal and that there are other more worthy cities we should be connecting first, in terms of bang for the buck, Florida HSR is a steal.
Only in terms of initial construction. The equipment is still very expensive to maintain and operate, and just looks foolish when it is clear that conventional rail service could make trip times close to what is being promised by the high speed equipment.
Perhaps in a dollar for dollar comparison, but in a "bang-for-the-buck" comparison - that is, in which you take ridership into account - I don't think so. Consider that the subway line you mentioned, while it may be equivalent in capital construction costs, will likely generate more operating revenue in a day than the proposed HSR here would generate in a year, simply because so many people will be riding it.
The subway is also going to be part of the consolidated Metropolitan Transit Authority that runs the New York City subway, Long Island Railroad, Metro-North Railroad, the New York City bus system, and toll collecting inter-borough bridges and tunnels. It is an entire unified system operating with the goal of moving people around. The Florida High Speed Rail Authority is/was its own autonomous agency that is totally dependent on just riders of the high speed rail line. And if, in the future to get more riders, discounts are offered for people coming from other systems, that is just revenue lost.
One of the biggest problems with that is that the public share of the cost is only as low as it is because of private contributions, and those private contributions are naturally contingent on selection of routes that don't make sense except to the contributors. A HSR train from Orlando to Tampa that makes a stop at WDW is frankly ridiculous. But nobody downtown is offering land for a station or money for construction.
I think the only big private contribution is from Walt Disney World, that being the land to build and accommodate a station. It is not all that unusual actually. Tokyo Disneyland, Disneyland Paris, Hong Kong Disneyland and Shanghai Disneyland (obviously not built yet) are all served by regional trains. Disneyland Paris also has high speed rail service. The new parking deck at the Disneyland Resort is on hold became it is intended to include a connection between the Resort and ARTIC, the under construction (?) local transit hub that will service regional trains and, if built, the California High Speed Rail.
The problem was the belief that ridership in and out of Walt Disney World would be enough to sustain the train. Disney has not plans of ending Magical Express, regardless of whether or not the train is built. The idea that people would use the train to break Disney's hold on them and use it to leave the property is also baseless. The existing options of rental cars, buses and taxis are all cheaper for families than existing high speed rail systems over similar distances. Using high speed rail to get to International Drive or Tampa is only an economic option for the wealthy or single travelers.
NYC was planned and being built before cars were invented, as was much of the NE. Rail is the only real way to get around NYC.
Rail is convenient and worth its hassles because the roads in an around New York are clogged. Plenty of people still drive in New York City and between Paris and Lyon and Tokyo and Osaka (the only two high speed lines in the world that routinely operate in the black).
It will be interesting to see what the court says. I will not object to the court ruling if it is against the governor, but maybe wiser heads will prevails and it will be realized that conventional rail, easily able to accommodate future high speed trains, would be a significantly wiser use of this money and the plans to build transit in Florida.
