On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[Sir_Cliff]

With all this going on - if you looked at most people and said, "You know what, I'm going to Disney World!" they would look at you like you were insane. Florida is in the running for hot spot of the world, and going to such a notoriously public place as a theme park, Walt Disney World, of all places. I mean, they utterly wouldn't believe you and would think you were joking.

I suspect the above paragraph sums up the broader sentiment more than a lot of people want to acknowledge.

I'm sure there is a segment of the population who are happy to travel to Florida right now and it's very probable that there's a big overlap between this segment and those who would refuse to wear masks all day at the parks. Who knows what the overlap between these groups and the high earners Disney has been pitching themselves to in recent times, though. As long as Florida is looking like one of the global hotspots for a pandemic, how anyone can imagine tourism could rebound in any meaningful fashion before that rather large issue is resolved is beyond me. Particularly the notion that announcing they're loosening their measures against the pandemic will bring back the crowds.

 

[KIGhostGuy]

Iger is terrible for the parks, but at least he’s never killed any guests from his cheapness, unlike Eisner.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I suspect the above paragraph sums up the broader sentiment more than a lot of people want to acknowledge.

I'm sure there is a segment of the population who are happy to travel to Florida right now and it's very probable that there's a big overlap between this segment and those who would refuse to wear masks all day at the parks. Who knows what the overlap between these groups and the high earners Disney has been pitching themselves to in recent times, though. As long as Florida is looking like one of the global hotspots for a pandemic, how anyone can imagine tourism could rebound in any meaningful fashion before that rather large issue is resolved is beyond me. Particularly the notion that announcing they're loosening their measures against the pandemic will bring back the crowds.

I'm in New England, too, and I can verify the "you are insane" sentiment.

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

I'm not done with the preposterous claim.......

Atlantis in Bahamas is doing just fine right now and its Cove has sold out the random days I checked.

No guest mask requirement there.

I tend to agree with you. It's not that I'm unwilling to wear a mask; I do it daily when I'm out and about. I just don't want to do it on vacation, when I'm supposed to be having fun or relaxing.

We were booked to go to WDW in March, of course that got canceled. We then moved that trip to early July, but it got canceled as well. We turned that cancellation into a trip to Yellowstone and the Black Hills. It was wonderful! The weather was beautiful, the crowds were light, and I didn't have to wear a mask while I was gawking at Old Faithful.

Right now we have reservations at the GF for December, but I think we're going to pitch that for skiing in Breckenridge. It just sounds better right now.

So I agree that the 'Rona has hamstrung WDW, Vegas and many other pure entertainment/travel destinations. (We canceled a trip to Vegas during all of this as well!) I also agree that it'll be a looooong road back for these industries, and the people that work there will obviously go through much pain and change. This is one of the reasons I firmly believe that we as a Country need to mask up and open EVERYTHING. But I don't agree that Iger has any reason to feel disgraced. The Coronavirus would have ravaged Disney no matter who the CEO was; no matter if there was more or less IP in Epcot; no matter how many DVC hotels there were; no matter if you liked New Fantasyland or not. Bob Iger is free from blame in my eyes regarding the Coronavirus.

The only piece of his legacy that might sour is the heavy China investment, and we haven't really touched on that in this thread because it's another subject, and only slightly related to the virus. If our relationship with Beijing continues to deteriorate, then Iger will certainly be vilified for that huge miscalculation.

 

[_caleb]

People may not like all the Iger era work, but New Fantasyland, Pandora, Toy Story Land, SWGE, and Cars Land / the transformation of DCA are not small endeavors. Especially compared to the last 5 years of Eisner and first 5 years of Iger. The parks are distinctively Iger/Chapek era parks now.

Yeah, I don’t get all the hate. Disney has had hits and misses under both Eisner and Iger. Obviously, we’d all love to see them build and spend like crazy and give Imagineers total freedom. But we’ve got great stuff over the years.

BTW, I spent a LOT of time at DCA 1.0 and while I actually think they were trying to do something different with that park (not just cheap, but different). I wouldn’t say it was a success (I’m really glad for Buena Vista Street, Cartland, etc.), but I sometimes think it was misunderstood.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

People may not like all the Iger era work, but New Fantasyland, Pandora, Toy Story Land, SWGE, and Cars Land / the transformation of DCA are not small endeavors. Especially compared to the last 5 years of Eisner and first 5 years of Iger. The parks are distinctively Iger/Chapek era parks now.

Well...do be fair I wasn’t lumping Disneyland in with wdw...so that changes the story substantially.

But I think you defeated your own argument:
“People may not like them”

How could an expanded fantasy land and sections based on toy story and Star Wars get any blowback? Step back and look at it...that’s insane. But it happened.

The avatar land is great...that is an achievement.

They were conservative...too conservative...and Bob’s Investment towards his end for “legacy” only brought them slightly less behind in operations....not ahead.

The comparison in totality between he and Eisner based on what they had to work with isn’t close. Really at all.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Ahhhh that makes a lot of sense. DAK doesn’t feel cheap like DCA 1.0 etc.

That has more to do with how Rohde and Co spent their budget. They went big on what they did, even if it meant sacrificing Beastly Kingdom, Dinoland E Ticket 1.0 and later Tiger River Run.

 

[sbunit]

Remember when so many posters were drooling over Touring Plans view of what crowds would look like when the parks reopened.. making references to absolutely bonkers past data points like hurricanes? lol

And how people were filling pages of threads of just how they couldn't wait to get back into the parks.. and it was a daily thing about what day they could reschedule for??

Yeah... suckkers... This kind of massive correction was on the board as soon as governments started closing borders and commercial activity. This was going to happen even with a short shutdown.. and now with the future so uncertain, and borders shutdown effectively indefinitely at this point... All of this was like predicting the sunrise.

The one surprising thing out of this shutdown is just how strong luxury good sales continue to be. Economic uncertainty hasn't hit all job types equally.... Try going out and buying things like hot tubs, home entertainment stuff, etc... inventory is drained everywhere.

because people aren’t traveling. Whatever discretionary income that is available is being re-routed to other safer forms of entertainment at the expense of the travel industry amongst others

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That has more to do with how Rohde and Co spent their budget. They went big on what they did, even if it meant sacrificing Beastly Kingdom, Dinoland E Ticket 1.0 and later Tiger River Run.

Yeah...that’s a “lesser” screwup...blowing the budget actually hurt the parks that were built after...3 at least.

But it’s still a screwup

 

[asianway]

That has more to do with how Rohde and Co spent their budget. They went big on what they did, even if it meant sacrificing Beastly Kingdom, Dinoland E Ticket 1.0 and later Tiger River Run.

What are the odds on Joe making it to next month?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

What are the odds on Joe making it to next month?

He would need an awfully big buyout to leave.

 

[Rider]

us mask opinion survey - Google Search

www.google.com

Anywhere from 75-90% of Americans support mask requirements. Trying to cater to a small number of Karens while scaring off the majority of customers isn't a good business decision for Disney.

People are not traveling. Because of the virus. Because of the economy. Because of the restrictions. Because of the uncertainty. At best people are doing things near their homes which is why Disney only has APs right now.

I'm not done with the preposterous claim.......

Atlantis in Bahamas is doing just fine right now and its Cove has sold out the random days I checked.

No guest mask requirement there.

The Bahamas has effectively banned visitors from the US. Other countries with the outbreak under control are also able to keep Americans out and have a semi-normal existence catering to locals and visitors from places that are also low risk.

Florida is THE hotspot now. Eliminating masks at Disney would be a PR disaster that would scare off more people than it could attract.

 

[asianway]

He would need an awfully big buyout to leave.

I seem to recall someone implying he was being sunset after the last round, and I don’t see the DCL project happening for a while

 

[brianstl]

They don’t want people coming right now. That’s why rooms are rack rate, no free dining.. no discounts at all into next year. They will take anyone that’s willing to pay 700 bucks for a studio at OKW or SSR, if people are willing to pay that but that’s all they want in right now. It’s a different ballgame from 9/11.

If they didn’t want anyone the wouldn’t be offering AP and Florida resident discounts. They want guests, Bob Iger is just worried about the backlash he would face from certain sectors that would paint general public discounts as Disney trying to encourage the spread of the virus across the country. Iger doesn’t want hurt his chances at a possible future bid for the Democrat Presidential nomination.

 

[Rider]

Preposterous...Ok sure.

Mayan Riviera/Cancun is seeing a lot of bookings and travel.......no guest mask requirement at resorts. Volcano Bay is doing OK...way, way better than the 2 other parks which are ghost towns. Volcano Bay's activities don't require mask.

Preposterous..... If you say so.

Water parks are busy because it's summer and the locals want something to do. VB or H20 aren't attracting tourists either.

Come winter they'll be dead too.

It isn't arbitrary that the Disney water parks are closed. Disney has done the math. If something goes wrong at Volcano Bay it's local news at best.

As soon as Typhoon Lagoon opens videos of thousands of people not social distancing there will be national news.

 

[NickMaio]

WDW should offer cheaper shorter blocks to use their parks.
People dont want to spend the money and time to be in a park all day.
4 hours at 50-60% off regular price might get people back.
Just a thought.....

People might not want a full days of exposure in the parks.....half blocks allows a nice chance to get your WDW fix. And save some cash.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Remember when so many posters were drooling over Touring Plans view of what crowds would look like when the parks reopened.. making references to absolutely bonkers past data points like hurricanes? lol

And how people were filling pages of threads of just how they couldn't wait to get back into the parks.. and it was a daily thing about what day they could reschedule for??

Yeah... suckkers... This kind of massive correction was on the board as soon as governments started closing borders and commercial activity. This was going to happen even with a short shutdown.. and now with the future so uncertain, and borders shutdown effectively indefinitely at this point... All of this was like predicting the sunrise.

The one surprising thing out of this shutdown is just how strong luxury good sales continue to be. Economic uncertainty hasn't hit all job types equally.... Try going out and buying things like hot tubs, home entertainment stuff, etc... inventory is drained everywhere.

The wiser minds have been proven right on this...it’s just that simple.

because people aren’t traveling. Whatever discretionary income that is available is being re-routed to other safer forms of entertainment at the expense of the travel industry amongst others

And that was always the way it was gonna go based on the parameters set.

I hate to give Flynn TOO much credit...but dead on in that assessment above.

You have people whining about “freedom” (which never was an issue with travel) and Chef shouting how everything is hunky doory.

Reality doesn’t care about anyone’s opinion...and humans are predictable.

 

[UNCgolf]

Technically he greenlit Animal Kingdom before Disneyland Paris opened.

Well he didn't turn around and cancel it! Hah

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Water parks are busy because it's summer and the locals want something to do. VB or H20 aren't attracting tourists either.

Come winter they'll be dead too.

It isn't arbitrary that the Disney water parks are closed. Disney has done the math. If something goes wrong at Volcano Bay it's local news at best.

As soon as Typhoon Lagoon opens videos of thousands of people not social distancing there will be national news.

This...

And blizzard and typhoon are really money makers anyway.

Who goes there really? Locals in the summer and internationals in higher proportions when their travel calendars bring them there...

...you can see the problem?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

The only piece of his legacy that might sour is the heavy China investment, and we haven't really touched on that in this thread because it's another subject, and only slightly related to the virus. If our relationship with Beijing continues to deteriorate, then Iger will certainly be vilified for that huge miscalculation.

To be honest, though, at the time Disney made their push into China the common wisdom was that international companies should be doing just that to take advantage of the economic opening and growing middle class. Disney had been trying to make further inroads into China under Eisner, Universal is in the midst of building a park there, and I'm sure there were plenty of people in the US government who saw Shanghai Disneyland as being in the United States' best interest as an extension of US soft power.

It was not unforeseeable that things could turn bad quickly and it's looking increasingly likely that they will. Still, every business decision involves risk and, even if with hindsight we can say this was a bad one, it would involve some serious re-writing of history to suggest Iger was going rogue here. It also doesn't seem like SDL and/or HKDL going south will sink the company, so perhaps the risk was reasonable at the time. If anything, the insiders are suggesting that WDW is more likely to sink the company!

We're just living through extraordinary, unpredictable times.