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On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Lol, I just didn’t know whether I would break forum rules by posting links. I will DM you too, but anyone else can simply search YouTube for “Fire Bob Iger” and “Disney Rumors.”
The only results I found were from Clownfish TV and Geeks+Gamers. Just a tip for those unfamiliar with them, these chuds are part of the obnoxious "Fandom Menace" group that have been spamming the same videos about how Kathleen Kennedy has been fired for the last 3 years, and that Brie Larsen has somehow taken over Marvel and is trying to destroy it. This will have been one of the only legitimate rumors these morons ever reported on, just figured i'd warn people in case they're tempted to fall down the rabbit hole and watch more of their content.
 

Rosso11

Well-Known Member
Those states (mainly New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Ohio) are definitely a significant portion of the WDW base, but I doubt they're the majority. Not that it really matters -- I'm actually curious about this now, though, and wonder if there's a breakdown somewhere of visitors by state.
If I’m remembering correctly and since you’re curious these were the top 5 out of state visitors when I worked at Disney. But this was well over a decade ago, actually closer to 2 decades now, so it might have changed somewhat but I doubt much.
1. New York
2. New Jersey
3. Massachusetts
4. Connecticut
5. Texas
 

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
Not have a park they let rot for 25+ years that’s entirely dependent on meat market festivals with food booths and 80’s bands?
Woah woah woah! Hold your horses. I remember the first time I saw Starship as a young bootstrapping whippersnapper and I loved it. I have been a fan ever since. Mickey Thomas has been singing “nothing’s gonna stop us” at WDW since before it was cool 😎.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I'm about 70% sure that @pheneix is Michael Eisner.

In all seriousness, I know he's been a long time poster here but if you look back at the threads that @pheneix has posted in, he shows up when things are bad. I don't think it negates the content of the original post or subsequent discussion, but there is an agenda to the posts.
I gotta follow this guy...

Let me know when you get to 88% sure on the dial, Marty McFly
If I’m remembering correctly and since you’re curious these were the top 5 out of state visitors when I worked at Disney. But this was well over a decade ago, actually closer to 2 decades now, so it might have changed somewhat but I doubt much.
1. New York
2. New Jersey
3. Massachusetts
4. Connecticut
5. Texas
Swap Pennsylvania for Connecticut and you’re about right...

Ontario, southern Canada
Illinois
Massachusetts
Maryland
Virginia
Ohio
Michigan


...basically the Atlantic seaboard and the rust belt are the heavy hitters.

And exactly why Disney is in some trouble here in Florida. Neither the virus nor the political tinge put on it is breaking their way.

They know it.

Or if they’re watching:
1. You KNOW it
2. I KNOW it
3. Best get on those discounts ASAP.
 

sndral

Active Member
I've spent the last few weeks wondering if there's also another component at play driving uncertainty in the travel market... as if Covid wasn't enough.

Never in WDW history has there been a time of widespread social unrest. It went mostly unnoticed due to the parks still being closed, but in early June WDW operations were modified by adjusting hours at the just-reopened Springs to respect the Orange county curfew in response to ongoing protests. If the parks had been open, highly visible adjustments in hours probably would have to have been made.

Without making this line of discussion overtly political, I think it's fair to say that we are all currently operating under a very heightened sense of uncertainty with regards too many issues here in America that have yet to be fully resolved. Covid is amplifying and precipitating some of these issues, but even without it there may have been measurable disruption already due to significant events of the past few months. Agree with it or not, one can not consider everything 'perfectly fine' with the American tourism industry - especially its international standing and stability - when key tourist destinations in our nations capital and other well-recognized cities continue to make dramatic international headlines with very graphic pictures involving protests and unrest.

WDW itself can probably itself be considered a well protected bubble from this 'real world' issue, I highly doubt any significant protest would have been allowed to occur on property... but the decisions and discussion regarding Splash and other socially 'awkward' attractions proves that the Walt Disney company considers these issues highly significant. Their motivations in 'doing something' are not only because of key personal ambitions to be on the right side of history, but are also likely driven by very real business motivations in telegraphing that Disney World is not really part of the "America" you're currently seeing in those uncomfortable pictures. As always, they would like to sell it as a safe place, both physically and culturally.

If Covid didn't happen, I believe there still would have been a softening of international travel specifically in response to the protests... and possibly a very rapid pull back in some segments of domestic and business travel as well. As we inch closer to certain key dates in our democratic process, I think there are very real questions on a lot of peoples minds over what exactly could happen, how some of this is going to play out, and possibly how close to home you'd prefer to be when it might. I don't know how this would have translated to summer vacation attendance at the parks, or if it would have made little more than a blip on fall & winter resort bookings... Frankly, it's uncharted territory just as much as Covid is.
Actually, WDW opened during a time of widespread social unrest - against the war in Vietnam.
When the widespread protesting began, I wasn’t surprised, I was expecting some type of eruption due to peoples anger/fear over the COVID situation, I just didn’t know what the catalyst/cause would be. Thus, w/out the pandemic we may not have seen the protests.
But the what ifs, while interesting, will never be known.
That said, if we go into another recession or even a depression, all bets are off, even if COVID ‘magically’ just goes away. That, IMO, is the big question, WDW can be open for business, safer than ever, pandemic gone, but if people are struggling financially they aren’t going to be taking high ticket vacations.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
If I’m remembering correctly and since you’re curious these were the top 5 out of state visitors when I worked at Disney. But this was well over a decade ago, actually closer to 2 decades now, so it might have changed somewhat but I doubt much.
1. New York
2. New Jersey
3. Massachusetts
4. Connecticut
5. Texas

That's not too surprising. I'm not sure Connecticut (or maybe Massachusetts) would still be in the top 5 now because I think a state like North Carolina or Pennsylvania could have jumped in, but Connecticut and Massachusetts have such high per capita incomes that it's not a shock to see them up there despite smaller populations.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
How much of this is a function of the NBA and MLS money? I have to imagine that's anchoring this whole thing.

Watching the MLS videos from their bubble, I don't think they're getting a lot of money from MLS. Compared to the NBA, MLS is a Tuesday afternoon T-ball game compared to NBA's Super Bowl (metaphors purposefully mixed). Also, MLS occupancy money is filtered through Marriott.

The NBA is spending the Big Bucks, though, and is feeding ESPN, too.

OTOH, EWWoS would have been making money with third tier events throughout the Summer, and so, NBA money is a replacement for that loss.

To summarize: I don't know.
 

DDLand

Well-Known Member
Not have a park they let rot for 25+ years that’s entirely dependent on meat market festivals with food booths and 80’s bands?
I was shocked when they reopened Epcot. Shocked. You can look at my post history where I incorrectly predicted Epcot would remain closed for the next year. Bringing that park back online was utter madness. It is in terrible shape, and COVID has nerfed the nightlife and other cool experiences. The glue holding Epcot afloat vanished. Right now Epcot is only cannibalizing the other parks.
Disney is straight up using quantum math to claim this operation is profitable. It is not. We all see the deserted theme parks and lack of guest spending. Yet, there's many Disney spinsters trying to tell us that what we see isn't really what we see. They're good at that. Look at the failed opening of Galaxy's Edge and the continued online bickering over "how bad it did."

Despite other "insiders" (not a dig at Steve *at all* cause I have my own "alternative" connects claiming the same) saying attendance is not in the hundreds," I mean... we see what these parks look like. You can certainly pull the entire day's chart and find that a few thousand ppl wandered thru the gates. They don't stay long. By 4pm every park is lucky to still have a thousand in park. On most days. its rotten luck!

They got hotel occupancy in the teens yet their transit system is getting worked like the 4th of July every day because of COVID ops. By Disney's own math alone -- baking transportation costs into room rates -- they really screwed this.
A couple businesses that might be helping Walt Disney World right now...
Annual Passes) From Disney’s Annual Report:
Deferred revenue primarily relates to non-refundable consideration received in advance for (i) licensing contracts and theme park vacation packages, tickets and annual passes and (ii) the deferral of advertising revenues due to ratings shortfalls. The increase in the deferred revenue balance at September 28, 2019 was primarily due to the receipt of additional prepaid park admissions, advances on certain licensing arrangements and non-refundable travel deposits, as well as the acquisition of TFCF and consolidation of Hulu (see Note 4).

Basically, when we buy tickets from Disney, they don’t count the money immediately as revenue. Instead, it goes into a bank account where it is saved. Then, as Disney keeps the park open, quarter by quarter more of the deferred revenue is unlocked or counted as revenue. When Walt Disney World closed, it likely was no longer able to recognize passholder revenue. But with the reopening, Walt Disney World could start taking money from the pot again. No one even needs to show up and Disney still could make revenue. The deferred revenue wouldn’t be huge, but it could be a hundred million+. Does anyone know how large Florida’s annual passholder business is? Items like total APs and average ticket price of APs would be helpful.

DVC) Disney doesn’t care if DVC rooms are booked. Disney should still be able to charge DVC members their management fees with or without occupancy. As long as Disney is maintaining and operating the resort, Disney should receive its check. Reopening right now might be a no brainer. DVC members with access to contracts would know for sure.

Variable Profit) Disney could be making money and losing it at the same time. Some costs are fixed (like security, depreciation, maintenance, etc). Other costs are variable (like cast member salaries, electricity, etc.). Disney might be making a variable profit, or in other words, they are covering the costs of staying open. Another way of thinking about this is figuring out the way to lose the least amount of money possible. This is a profit but not an actual profit like we would think of intuitively. Disney might also be cash flow positive (profit before accounting for depreciation). That would be good news on the liquidity front and is plausible (depreciation per quarter will be $500+ million).

NBA) Hopefully WDW is being well compensated!

It all does seem suspect though. If Walt Disney World is making an operating profit I will be impressed. It just seems hard to believe. So to boil it down, Walt Disney World is:
1) Making a variable profit. This means it’s making more money than it would by staying closed.
2) Walt Disney World is cash flow positive. This means Disney World is making enough money to pay its immediate bills, but not enough to offset previous investments. This would be great, because Disney would be able to save liquidity.
3) It makes a real operating profit. That would be crazy good news. This will be a stretch IMO.
 

pheneix

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Wait...how did they "push splash merch" on the ebay resellers?? That's not how it works. When they opened the ebay sellers just went in and bought everything up because Disney made the splash refurb announcement so ebay resellers knew splash merch would be hot. How is that Disney pushing it on them? Sure Disney made sure to have plenty of Splash Merch stocked up due to the announcement but it's not like Disney themselves announced a Splash Mountain sale merch or something. So can you please explain your statement?

Pushing, moving, hustling.... figures of speech. I did not infer that Disney was forcing this merch on anyone. The hogs were fighting at the feeding trough.

There was an order from the top over merch. It was supposed to be yanked from the parks. I know they did remove the attraction poster and associated artwork from some of their services. The park side merch was supposed to be pulled as it is seen by the top office as "bad for the brand."

The park did not care. They saw a bunch of marks from eBay and they got hustled for every dime they had.
 

pheneix

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
On how much the NBA is subsidizing WDW ops, the bill Disney is presenting is about $1.5 million a day. That's...... not a lot of money.


It could be argued that Bob Iger is using company resources to broker money losing deals with the NBA. The bet is Disney will make the losses back in TV ad revenue. The odds on that much cash coming in..... not good. Won't be the first time Disney lost a bunch of money on the NBA in Orlando.

For certain: Bob Iger's "friendship" with Adam Silver will continue to be cultivated.
 

Ldno

Well-Known Member
I have never sat through and read every single post from a topic and wow, a lot to take in but I love it, what else is new, there goes my 2021 vacation I guess, nothing will ever be the same, like someone said masks are the new ears and it’s scary since i don’t want to pay for custom masks and just stick to the generic ones... It’s all about the income, but not even with bailouts we are so doomed
 

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