WED99
Well-Known Member
I agree it could use more Disney, but not overkill. I would love to see some more characters in DTD and AK, but I hope they stay away from Epcot!
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"On Integrity"
- Thread starter mharrington
- Start date
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Nothing is more Disney than an IP franchise free EPCOT Center.
Presenting the natural world is also a longstanding Disney tradition. DAK too is more Disney when cartoon characters stay out.
Presenting the natural world is also a longstanding Disney tradition. DAK too is more Disney when cartoon characters stay out.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Yes...but I feel it is lacking something.
I know! Throw in a scary ride! Say, based on Snow White!
robbieports
Member
I dont see it personally i cant comment on disneyland but in the uk they only push disney world and the odd paris advert. Never ever seen an advertisement for california. and its 4 parks its operating as well as two water parks and countless hotels. The development is on a larger scale so there is going to be an effect on the 'detail as' there is alot more to maintain.
juniorthomas
Well-Known Member
I would think that the proximity of DL to Burbank and Glendale would certainly grant them the likelihood of more attention than WDW, but we're talking about a global company here. They have people to watch over ALL of their parks, be they in California, Florida, or France, etc. They may be more nostalgic about DL, but I doubt they outright favor it.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Just wait until around around 2015. All of the DL people will be jealous of us again when the cycle turns!but I also love Disneyland, but it is just easier for me to get to Florida than California, so I always will want the best to be coming to wdw instead!
At Disneyland, it again seems largely to be a bad luck/good luck situation mixed with the fact that there are a couple of people in very high places that adore Disneyland. As I said, what shifted things maintenance wise at Disneyland was literal tragedy and an extremely damaging PR scandal surrounding the situation (the deaths of multiple guests at the hands of improper maintenance). Plus Disneyland goers are very scrutinizing about things they don't like and apparently have some say in the matter. There wasn't a choice in the matter. Had deaths never occurred, it's possible the resort wouldn't have been cleaned up. Or perhaps cleaned up on a far lesser scale, with perhaps not as much of a sustained effort to keep it in good shape after the 50th passed. But due to the situation and bad press, they really didn't have any choice. If leadership could get by with keeping the resort a broken mess like they have been allowed to do with WDW, they probably wouldn't ever fix anything.
And likewise, what has ensured the expansions are a success out there was largely due to Lasseter. Insiders have stated on this site that Burbank bean counters were kicking and screaming the entire way trying to value engineer the California Adventure expansion. They were constantly trying to cut down the budget. And in some ways they actually succeeded in doing this, Mermaid opened to somewhat underwhelming guest reaction. But for Cars Land at least, Lasseter put his foot down. It is said he actually made "political threats" to the company heads to ensure the land turned out well. And so it apparently did, all because the Disneyland resort has someone willing to fight for what they want.
Disney World hasn't yet had a guest death pinpointed to incompetent maintenance as far as i'm aware, nor by consequence has there been a mainstream media PR scandal involving guest safety. And I hope it doesn't ever come to that, even though there have been several extremely close shaves involving collapsing rock work on both Splash Mountain and the Tree of Life. It's sad that Disneyland had to sink THAT incredibly low before things even got better. To compound matters in regards to new attractions, WDW doesn't seem to have a Lasseter figure head. Someone that has the will or power needed to ensure new attractions aren't value engineered and have their budgets mutilated by bean counters.
One of the reasons WDW was treated with such reverence at one point seems to be because Eisner seemed to see massive potential for WDW (though in ways the Westcot project seems to indicate he wanted to do something with DL). As such, WDW got big development and Disneyland got shafted (beside Indiana Jones). This of course before something apparently happened to his head and things turned sour. Now the tables are turned and the current leadership is interested in expanding Disneyland as a major resort. With a mixture of what seems to be internal struggles and incredibly stupid and indifferent leadership, no one seems to know what to do with WDW. Or at least no one wants to come to an agreement about what to do with it. And there certainly doesn't seem to be anyone with the right about of power willing to stand up and get major things done like Lasseter.
I'm expecting the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train will be a fun little ride, but i've tempered my expectations heavily. We've seen multiple ride plans posted on these forums (from Lee and Raven IIRC). And with every new layout plan posted here, the ride has been massively scaled back and made much shorter and less complex. Anyone overhyping this ride and expecting some sort of incredible E Ticket from this are going to be in for a major disappointment. Internally Disney was hyping Mermaid as an "E Ticket lite", and most people consider it below even a D. It's going to be a fun little kiddy coaster with nice theming and a couple of cute but likely unimpressive show scenes. I fully expect it to be an enjoyable ride, a step up from a spinner or the Barnstormer for certain. But not close to Big Thunder or any of the major new rides that have been built and are currently in development for other Disney parks worldwide (Cars Land, Ratatouille in DLP, Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point, etc).
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
The original three Walt Disney World parks need a lot of attention. At this point, though, it's hopeless. All we can do is suck it up, revisit whatever classics remain in whatever form they're in, smell the Haunted Mansion when the doors open and hope to have the same feelings we did when we were kids. It's not possible to actually go to these parks and find a recently opened attraction that isn't mediocre or downright terrible. The Imagineers don't seem to have in in them anymore and/or the budget for projects is so low and/or constrained by the expectations and/or demands of management. Gone are the days of E tickets like Pirates of the Caribbean, the Haunted Mansion, EPCOT Center's Future World, even Splash Mountain or the Tower of Terror. So we get all these soulless, marketable manufactured attractions like Little Mermaid, Stitch's Great Escape, Monsters Inc. Laugh Floor, The Seas with Nemo and Friends, Toy Story Midway Mania and Chester and Hester's Dino-Rama.
Djali999
Active Member
*Waves* Hi there. I'm the original author of the blog post in question here.
I'd like to point out that the intent of the article was not to rub in the old DL vs. WDW or who gets more love nonsense. We've all heard it a million times. I love Disneyland, and I also love Magic Kingdom. And I want, no, insist that they be different. The article points out a number of places where unique versions of attractions have been altered to bring them in line with the Disneyland versions, simultaneously undoing the clear intent of the original designers. Almost all of these changes have taken as a given that the Disneyland version is the "way it's supposed to be". I would be equally mad if WDW stuff started to get dropped into DL in thoughtless ways, compromising the inherent Disneylandness of Disneyland.
For example, the Florida It's a Small World got a clone of the Disneyland clock tower dropped down into its ugly sunken load area. Now I love the Disneyland Small World, and I'm not defending the old look on aesthetic grounds, but doing something like that compromises the uniqueness of the Florida ride. They couldn't come up with something new and appropriate to spruce up that depressing load area?
Disneyland is the sacred cow. Walt Disney World is the ATM. But they both deserve to have unique features and traditions. And many of these are being thoughtlessly removed from the Florida parks by people who don't know and don't care about them. Like the 2006 Pirates of the Caribbean refurb, where the word came down from California that the talking parrot outside the entrance had to be removed. Why? Nobody seemed to know but it had to go because the California people didn't know what it was.
Both WDW and DL are getting great stuff. This will continue to happen and it is frankly totally irrelevant to what I wrote. But raising awareness that both WDW and DL are different places with different audiences that need different design teams and sensibilities is the main point. Who wants to travel across the country and find the exact same darn stuff?
I'd like to point out that the intent of the article was not to rub in the old DL vs. WDW or who gets more love nonsense. We've all heard it a million times. I love Disneyland, and I also love Magic Kingdom. And I want, no, insist that they be different. The article points out a number of places where unique versions of attractions have been altered to bring them in line with the Disneyland versions, simultaneously undoing the clear intent of the original designers. Almost all of these changes have taken as a given that the Disneyland version is the "way it's supposed to be". I would be equally mad if WDW stuff started to get dropped into DL in thoughtless ways, compromising the inherent Disneylandness of Disneyland.
For example, the Florida It's a Small World got a clone of the Disneyland clock tower dropped down into its ugly sunken load area. Now I love the Disneyland Small World, and I'm not defending the old look on aesthetic grounds, but doing something like that compromises the uniqueness of the Florida ride. They couldn't come up with something new and appropriate to spruce up that depressing load area?
Disneyland is the sacred cow. Walt Disney World is the ATM. But they both deserve to have unique features and traditions. And many of these are being thoughtlessly removed from the Florida parks by people who don't know and don't care about them. Like the 2006 Pirates of the Caribbean refurb, where the word came down from California that the talking parrot outside the entrance had to be removed. Why? Nobody seemed to know but it had to go because the California people didn't know what it was.
Both WDW and DL are getting great stuff. This will continue to happen and it is frankly totally irrelevant to what I wrote. But raising awareness that both WDW and DL are different places with different audiences that need different design teams and sensibilities is the main point. Who wants to travel across the country and find the exact same darn stuff?
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
While I agree things should be different on both coasts, not gonna lie, the "to hell with Disneyland" part in the blog caught me off guard. Thought that was disrespectful, I'd never say that about any of the Disney parks.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
I say that about Animal Kingdom all the time. As for the Disneyland-ification of WDW, well, it's a slight annoyance right now. Thankfully, it hasn't gotten to the point where they demolish the Pirates of the Caribbean queue line in favor of the Disneyland version, remove the Peoplemover, convert the Swiss Family Robinson treehouse into Tarzan and Carousel of Progress into Innoventions, etc.
To hell with the fingers on the door! I think you can still see where they were pried off.
To hell with the fingers on the door! I think you can still see where they were pried off.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
What about Remember using the intro and finale of Wishes? It's not just WDW, it goes both ways.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
As I said earlier, fans of Disney parks can take their rivalry to spiteful levels. This happens regardless of the park and it's actually really stupid. Some overzealous Disneyland fans might diss anything that isn't "Walt's park", whereas you might see a reactionary comment from a WDW fan as well. Disneyland fans have every right to cherish the originality of their park, WDW fans have every right to cherish the uniqueness of their own resort. I don't see a reason for one to diss the other when there's greatness in every Disney resort on earth (and for the fans who do it, they're only doing themselves a disservice by refusing to visit and enjoy them all). I'd still be inclined to wager that Walt himself would have been pretty upset that fans were creating disrespectful, bitter, and frankly immature and pointless rivalries among his parks. I'd also wager that when planning WDW, he wished for people to enjoy it, not to fight like mad dogs about what resort was superior.
Now all that being said, I will say that I don't get the feeling that the author intended to insult any of the parks or their guests. I certainly get that people can do that, but here I get the feeling it was more an attempt at rhetoric (perhaps a poor choice of words on their part) in order to get a point across. I'll cite WDW1974 here for instance, he uses a lot of sarcastic comments that might sound insulting to people who don't know him and his style. But they're actually made with a respectful undertone to them in regards to Walt Disney and the parks. Like mocking how current leadership mistreats the Disney legacy by sarcastically referring to Walt Disney as "old dead guy Walt". That comment you can take however you like, though it was made as a reflection of how many Disney leaders view the man and his legacy they're in control of.
The point of course being the homogenization of the parks, a fair complaint that I would agree with. Magic Kingdom shouldn't be overly like Disneyland, and Disneyland shouldn't strive to be exactly like MK. Heck, it's done even within the parks themselves, such as removing land-specific merch in favor of generic items sold park-wide. Current leadership has certainly done a bad job keeping the resorts unique experiences. Again being unique was what made Epcot so wonderful (heck Animal Kingdom as well had it been a fully realized entity from its concept).
The article has plenty of great points, ones I agree with. But the points do work fine without making statements that could be misconstrued as an insult. I'll also say that probably the biggest insult ever made to ANY of the Disney parks isn't something that any fan has said. It's the simple treatment that modern leadership gives to them.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I'm just here to say I've been reading your blog for years and it never fails to impress. Keep up the good work!
Timekeeper
Well-Known Member
It's been rumored that a monorail expansion will be constructed to connect WDW and Disneyland.
lego606
MagicBandit
It's been rumored that a monorail expansion will be constructed to connect WDW and Disneyland.
Welcome to DisneyPark. DisneyPark is the only theme park in both Florida and California. There has always been only one DisneyPark. *waves hand*
Me, neither. I'm probably going to get into a LOT of trouble when I say this, but when I go to the castle parks, I'm relatively indifferent to differences. I go not because of their differences, but IN SPITE of their differences. I've taught myself to have a good time and not let differences, good or bad, get in the way.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
I'm excited to visit all the castle parks around the world, because I know my experience will be different with each one.
What I'm trying to say is, I go to the parks IN SPITE of differences, not necessarily because of them. Like I said, that comment is sure to get me in a lot of trouble, but I've finally said what I had to say.
Uncle Remus
Well-Known Member
They were trying to get Disneys leftovers. Land was pretty cheap for the most part. Florida is pretty spread out too. It's better for everyone to have a central location for theme parks I'd assume.