Oh no, say it ain't so, Joe..

[RSoxNo1]

Sure, why not.

View attachment 503052

Stop it.

Elsewhere in the thread I excluded Dino-Rama from any argument I tried to make.

 

[UNCgolf]

Well I’m sure he’s been working on all sorts of possible projects and expansions for DAK. It may have been all staged but wasn’t he working on the model of DL Tomorrowland in the imagineering video?

Plus there is the Bahamas project.

Yeah, I meant other than the Bahamas cruise line stuff.

I'm sure he's doing things but I think he will be retired before anything else he's touching is actually built (other than Lighthouse Point, maybe).

 

[Unbanshee]

For those looking for a recap:

Joe Rohde isn't fired, but he should be because Animal Kingdom is a piece of trash, and he's ruining the company (and perhaps the themed entertainment industry)

 

[RSoxNo1]

DAK is one of the worst-planned parks in the Disney portfolio. The walkways and attraction locations don’t make any sense for crowd control. I respect Rohde and know he’s talented, but we have to be honest that DAK has some decisions based on ego rather than operational reality.

I don’t care how authentic the paint jobs are on the buildings, or how many imported knick-knacks are in a queue, if it takes an eternity to walk from one ride/exhibit to another.

The attractions are very spread out, no doubt. When you consider how heavily slanted that park is on the left side it dictates how you tour. The other big issue for me is they landlocked themselves out of using the plot of land North of Asia. It's sparse on attraction relative to the space it occupies. Dino-Rama should be the next area for development, but something else needs to be done between Anandapur and Everest. I suggested an Asian Safari using gondolas that could theoretically get guests to the area North of Asia without having to substantially change existing areas (like Kali). However, I think the best option would be to remove Kali and put multiple attractions in that area that extend into that plot of land. For people that don't want to get soaked on Kali, there isn't a ride within a 10 minute walk of Everest and that's absolutely a problem.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The attractions are very spread out, no doubt. When you consider how heavily slanted that park is on the left side it dictates how you tour. The other big issue for me is they landlocked themselves out of using the plot of land North of Asia. It's sparse on attraction relative to the space it occupies. Dino-Rama should be the next area for development, but something else needs to be done between Anandapur and Everest. I suggested an Asian Safari using gondolas that could theoretically get guests to the area North of Asia without having to substantially change existing areas (like Kali). However, I think the best option would be to remove Kali and put multiple attractions in that area that extend into that plot of land. For people that don't want to get soaked on Kali, there isn't a ride within a 10 minute walk of Everest and that's absolutely a problem.

What would be really cool is if a river Safari (like what was originally planned) and the Everest trains could cross paths.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

For those looking for a recap:

Joe Rohde isn't fired, but he should be because Animal Kingdom is a piece of trash, and he's ruining the company (and perhaps the themed entertainment industry)

Interesting take. I mean the guy isn't the messiah, as certain folks might make him out to be but I wouldn't say he needs to be fired. Just reined in or challenged. I think the larger issue is that Imagineering as a whole is financially wasteful and is filled with too many "brown-nosing yes men" leading to less than exemplarily design choices and weaker (than they should be) attractions. That and the "understood" IP-mandate might sometimes get in Joe's way. Nobody's perfect. I think he's doing a fair job. Imagineering though is another story entirely.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I mean the guy isn't the messiah, as certain folks might make him out to be

He and Baxter get praised a lot. I think Kevin Rafferty is up there with them. They are some of the few that really seem to get it when it comes to designing for Disney. Imho of course.

All of them have flaws, as did Walt himself.

 

[MisterPenguin]

So, we have:

• DAK is a masterpiece
• DAK is trash

Which is right? Well, somewhere in between saying DAK is great but has specific issues. Which is what I've been saying, so...

 

[UNCgolf]

What would be really cool is if a river Safari (like what was originally planned) and the Everest trains could cross paths.

I don't think they will ever build a river safari. There are far too many difficulties in ensuring the animals have a safe, natural habitat (that also keeps them from getting in the river/leaving their specific habitat) while also guaranteeing guests are actually able to see them while on the cruise. People won't be happy if they wait in line for a river safari and then half of the animals aren't visible from the boat.

 

[UNCgolf]

So, we have:

• DAK is a masterpiece
• DAK is trash

Which is right? Well, somewhere in between saying DAK is great but has specific issues. Which is what I've been saying, so...

Isn't that what basically everyone is saying? I don't think anyone thinks DAK is perfect.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

So, we have:

• DAK is a masterpiece
• DAK is trash

Which is right? Well, somewhere in between saying DAK is great but has specific issues. Which is what I've been saying, so...

In their current state, I think all
of the US parks have their issues.

Hasn’t DAK improved with each major addition ( not Dino carnival of course)?

Have the other Florida parks truly improved with each major addition? That’s what I’m willing to give Joe some major credit for.

 

[RSoxNo1]

What would be really cool is if a river Safari (like what was originally planned) and the Everest trains could cross paths.

So we armchair imagineer on our podcast and my suggestion was to have the entrance to a gondola based Asian safari begin inside the track footprint of Kali. To get there they would need to make another bridge over the Kali track (roughly by the existing restrooms).

 

[tirian]

Isn't that what basically everyone is saying? I don't think anyone thinks DAK is perfect.

Yeah, I don’t think anyone said it was trash. ROL might be.

 

[tirian]

What makes you say that decisions were based on ego? Just curious.

As for the layout, I really enjoy AK's "meandering trails" approach. I agree with @MisterPenguin about there being too many bottlenecks, but to me, it helps create a sense of "discovering" each new area.

I think it's clear that Joe really was trying to so something new/different on purpose with AK (in some ways, deliberately bucking the conventional wisdom learned from DL and MK). So it's not entirely fair to compare it to MK, which was clearly a "lessons learned" do-over after DL.

The "authenticity" is exactly what I love about AK. Having traveled to many of the places that inspired AK, I love the fact that these lands succeed in making me feel the same way I felt in the Africa and South Asia. Obviously, AK's lands are not "realistic," recreations, but I really appreciate that Joe led the team to capture the experience of visiting those places.

I guess we all like different things, though, don't we?

The meandering walkways and other decisions intended to feel like you’re on an adventure only work in WDI Theoretical Happy World Land where there are no crowds and no rush to get to FP or dining reservations.

This is one of those things Eddie Sotto, Tony Baxter, Tim Delaney, and others got incredibly right at DLP.

 

[Figments Friend]

WDI Theoretical Happy World Land

Fifth Gate, confirmed!

Oh wait.....

-

 

[Capsin4]

Too bad there isn’t another major theme park being built in Florida that could use him.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Yeah, I don’t think anyone said it was trash. ROL might be.

Ok...

For those looking for a recap:

Joe Rohde isn't fired, but he should be because Animal Kingdom is a piece of trash, and he's ruining the company (and perhaps the themed entertainment industry)

 

[Disneyson]

I doubt he was in charge of choosing to re-theme the tower to Guardians. As he says, he is often given briefs that are not ideal.

He did the best he could with what he had to do, and while it’s ugly on the outside (truly can’t think of a design myself that might be less ugly without going way over budget), it’s one of the most consistently popular attractions at the park, and, having ridden it, separates itself from ToT in a very smart way. I might get hate for it, but I find it more “fun” than some other themed thrills because of it’s refreshing attitude, which I think is captured from the movie really well.

Disclaimer: it should have never gone into ToT and whoever did that was smart because of the Avengers Campus but deeply dumb because they didn’t want to build a more beautiful Hollywood area and solve the problem that way.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

I guess a case could be made that Joe is a one-trick pony... but I won't be making that case. I like the "worn" aesthetic and all that encompasses. I don't however like the treatment done on the GotG drop tower. But one often has to work with what they are given.

I doubt he was in charge of choosing to re-theme the tower to Guardians. As he says, he is often given briefs that are not ideal.

He did the best he could with what he had to do, and while it’s ugly on the outside (truly can’t think of a design myself that might be less ugly without going way over budget), it’s one of the most consistently popular attractions at the park, and, having ridden it, separates itself from ToT in a very smart way. I might get hate for it, but I find it more “fun” than some other themed thrills because of it’s refreshing attitude, which I think is captured from the movie really well.

Disclaimer: it should have never gone into ToT and whoever did that was smart because of the Avengers Campus but deeply dumb because they didn’t want to build a more beautiful Hollywood area and solve the problem that way.

I think had TDA waited instead of rushing to put SOMETHING Marvel in DCA; the better choice would have been the "Doctor Strange" IP where (in theory) the tower's exterior wouldn't have had to receive such a garish makeover. But that's a different discussion. I think Joe's take fits the GotG vibe even though I dislike it.

Blech!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just an opinion...

But I think “the oasis” was a mistake from the start...like early 1998 before the park was open to the public kinda mistake.

The grade up and down from the gates was unnecessary. I get they were going for a “grand reveal”...but when you can see 3/4 of the damn tree from the parking lot...and Osceola parkway...it just became unnecessary.

And hence it’s a choke point. DAK’s modified “spoke” pattern doesn’t quite work either...the area around the tree is too big and no development between Asia and dinoland made it ineffective at the time.

The park might just be a tad too big. And not enough obvious flow such as Epcot or the magic kingdom.