Oh no, say it ain't so, Joe..

ChrisFL

Premium Member
If Uncle Comcast was really going to be a Daddy Warbucks for Uni, they could have stepped in to prevent three rounds of layoff, the one year (at least) delay of Epic Universe, the deeply discounted tickets, and the mad rush to reopen.

The only sign of Uni 'having money' is finishing up Velociraptor.

I'm not saying that Comcast would let Uni go under, but they haven't shown signs of being generous with them yet.

Comcast, like Disney is a publicly traded company and as such are still beholden to their shareholders. Trying to keep up all of the projects and staffing through this pandemic would seem to be a bad move by a lot of shareholders at this point in time.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Comcast, like Disney is a publicly traded company and as such are still beholden to their shareholders. Trying to keep up all of the projects and staffing through this pandemic would seem to be a bad move by a lot of shareholders at this point in time.
If it’s the best business move, it’s the CEO’s job to convince them it’s a good move. Just like Chapek will explain it was the best business move to any shareholders that may question the 28,000 person lay-off.

It’s just like the politicians, both sides will spin it so that their position is best for the country.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
EDIT 2: Most of AK could have been incorporated into MK or EPCOT and made both of those parks better experiences, but that wouldn't have been as marketable as another gate to encourage longer hotel stays.

I've long since thought this as well. There actually would exist three really good gates if we could break them all up for parts and reform them. The problem is the Studios though.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Where the flow of human traffic often comes to a crawl because paths narrow, or where paths meet/intersect and it doesn't have double the space to handle double the humans.

So many narrow bridges.

And no alternate paths.

And here is the perfect example of the problem... once you get into the park, to get anywhere you have to go thru narrow paths, and the one and only entrance/exit bridge, and then to the front of the Tree of Life. And everyone going out has to do the same in reverse.

Imagine if in the MK everyone had to get almost all the way to the castle stage before being allowing to go left or right.

YOU WILL GENUFLECT TO THE TREE OF LIFE ON THE WAY IN OR OUT... YOU HAVE NO CHOICE... ITS OUR FANTASTIC WEENIE AND YOU WILL ACKNOWLEDGE IT NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU'VE BEEN TO THE PARK... AND NOT FROM A DISTANCE. YOU WILL APPROACH OR YOU WILL BE FORBIDDEN ALL THE PARK HAS TO OFFER. LOOK. AT. THE. TREE!!! (by the way, hope you enjoyed the long walk we made you go thu first, you see, we wanted the tree in the *middle* of the park, and the park is really big and goes back a long way, so, it'd be like we put Spaceship Earth in the middle of World Showcase Lagoon, and didn't allow you to get to Soarin' or Test Track until you made the trek all the way to the lagoon first, but, c'mon, it's a pretty sweet tree, right? we put a lot of effort into it and you ought to see it.. or get the heck out of my park!!!)
I will say it becomes a problem leaving that park following Rivers of Light if it coincides with park closing. Other than that, I haven't really run into these problems.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
EDIT 2: Most of AK could have been incorporated into MK or EPCOT and made both of those parks better experiences, but that wouldn't have been as marketable as another gate to encourage longer hotel stays.
I think you're missing some fundamental themes of DAK. EPCOT's original conceit and DAK's original to current conceit are the two most distinct Disney parks in the world. It's why so many of us are protective about thematic integrity with regards to these two parks. Thankfully, in recent years it's only been EPCOT that's been compromised. In some of their simplest forms, EPCOT's threads include technology, people and society. DAK's themes are also about cultures, but more about those cultures relationship with nature as opposed to each other.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I will say it becomes a problem leaving that park following Rivers of Light if it coincides with park closing. Other than that, I haven't really run into these problems.
Hmm... you don't see crowds in front of you as you go thru DAK.... do you see crowds directly behind you?
 

techgeek

Well-Known Member
I think you're missing some fundamental themes of DAK. EPCOT's original conceit and DAK's original to current conceit are the two most distinct Disney parks in the world. It's why so many of us are protective about thematic integrity with regards to these two parks. Thankfully, in recent years it's only been EPCOT that's been compromised. In some of their simplest forms, EPCOT's threads include technology, people and society. DAK's themes are also about cultures, but more about those cultures relationship with nature as opposed to each other.

How I usually describe it:

AK - Humanity and its relationship with the natural world.
EPCOT - Humanity and its relationship with self-created technology & culture.
MK - Humanity and its relationship with American fantasy and idealism.
HS - Humanity and its relationship with corporate intellectual property.
 

SpoiledBlueMilk

Well-Known Member
Joe is a face for WDI and sells trips for them. He sold out an Africa ABD in minutes. He also books out those Tiffins talks yearly. I’m going to wait and see on this. I could see a retirement but firing is crazy.

Yeah - Haven't read through the whole thread yet, but Joe is the face of imagineering for Disney - he's the go-to-guy when it comes to appearing on TV and selling a concept. Firing him would seem to more harm than good.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
I think you're missing some fundamental themes of DAK. EPCOT's original conceit and DAK's original to current conceit are the two most distinct Disney parks in the world. It's why so many of us are protective about thematic integrity with regards to these two parks. Thankfully, in recent years it's only been EPCOT that's been compromised. In some of their simplest forms, EPCOT's threads include technology, people and society. DAK's themes are also about cultures, but more about those cultures relationship with nature as opposed to each other.

EPCOT's exploration includes conservation and marine life research. Expanding on these topics to include more about man's relationship with nature would not have been out of line with the park's themes or attractions like Symbiosis.

Specific attractions, like Everest, Kali River Rapids or the animal trails, could have also been added to WS without undermining the park and gave more variety to the attraction line up.

And things like Beastly Kingdome and Countdown to Extinction could have been built for MK. Certainly BK would have been better than the New Fantasyland we ended up with. MK already had a Lion King show when AK opened (though not as good) and Finding Nemo could have been put in DHS.
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
magine if in the MK everyone had to get almost all the way to the castle stage before being allowing to go left or right.

YOU WILL GENUFLECT TO THE TREE OF LIFE ON THE WAY IN OR OUT... YOU HAVE NO CHOICE... ITS OUR FANTASTIC WEENIE AND YOU WILL ACKNOWLEDGE IT NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU'VE BEEN TO THE PARK... AND NOT FROM A DISTANCE. YOU WILL APPROACH OR YOU WILL BE FORBIDDEN ALL THE PARK HAS TO OFFER. LOOK. AT. THE. TREE!!! (by the way, hope you enjoyed the long walk we made you go thu first, you see, we wanted the tree in the *middle* of the park, and the park is really big and goes back a long way, so, it'd be like we put Spaceship Earth in the middle of World Showcase Lagoon, and didn't allow you to get to Soarin' or Test Track until you made the trek all the way to the lagoon first, but, c'mon, it's a pretty sweet tree, right? we put a lot of effort into it and you ought to see it.. or get the heck out of my park!!!)
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but isn't that exactly how MK is laid out? Instead of coming in the park entrance and immediately cutting left to Pirates or right to Buzz, you're forced to walk up Main Street almost all the way to the castle before you encounter your first decision point where you can turn left or right.

If anything, MK's overly elaborate arrival sequence with the first vista of the castle from TTC, followed by the monorail or ferry journey, park entrance, and clear view up Main Street is even more demanding of guests to stop and pay their respects at the icon. There's a perverse obsession with the castle and its approach that almost makes it seem like it's a religious object that must be venerated. And yet, each and every time you approach the park, you can hear the excitement of other guests as the anticipation builds as they get closer to it.

At DAK, the distance from the park entrance until the first major decision point is approximately 700'. At MK, the distance to the very first decision point next to Casey's Corner is about 760'; it's another 120' to the point where the road itself splits to form the hub, where most guests walk before turning.

DAK1.JPG


MK1a.JPG


The meandering paths through the Oasis obscure vistas of what lies ahead, potentially making it feel longer as it's intentionally designed to slow guests down to look at the details. However, the cattle chute of Main Street actually covers more distance as it funnels guests ever closer to the imposing landmark in the distance. There's also something to be said about the high-stress environment created by sending all guests through a single gauntlet of merchandise locations prior to the first decision point, rather than letting them spread out onto multiple secluded paths with no real sales locations until you're actually at the decision point.

Measured in a straight line, rather than along the path a guest would follow, the distance from the DAK entrance gates to the center of the Tree of Life is approximately 950'; from the MK gates to the center of the castle is approximately 1250'.

DAK2.JPG


MK2.JPG


Although the arrival sequences at the two parks are designed to create very different atmospheres (anticipation and excitement vs. exploration and discovery), the distances to key features are actually quite similar. If anything, MK is larger and even more of an ordeal with its arrival sequence creating a long series of bottlenecks before guests reach the first decision point.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
DAK is the first non-Castle Disney park to use the hub and spoke correct?

I thought that was the idea all along, copy the MK layout but replace Main Street with animals and waterfalls and such.

I thought MGM Studios kind of had the same approach (initially). You had a Main Street leading up to the Chinese Theater, like the castle, and from there you branched out either into the actual studios (now Animation Courtyard) or Echo Lake.

1601913079359.png
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
DAK is the first non-Castle Disney park to use the hub and spoke correct?

I thought that was the idea all along, copy the MK layout but replace Main Street with animals and waterfalls and such.
Epcot was built as two enormous hubs with short spokes, connected in the middle like an hourglass. The idea was, Guests never had to decide more than to go right or left. Each FW pavilion was intended to have a mega E-ticket and enough exhibits to absorb time and avoid rope-drop rushes to one attraction or another.

In Epcot’s original Master Plan, Guests didn’t need to cut across the plaza to scope out the E-tickets amid a park of Bs and Cs. That’s why Disney dropped the individual ticket model from the castle parks: when Epcot opened, every pavilion in FW was an E.
 
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tirian

Well-Known Member
Where the flow of human traffic often comes to a crawl because paths narrow, or where paths meet/intersect and it doesn't have double the space to handle double the humans.

So many narrow bridges.

And no alternate paths.

And here is the perfect example of the problem... once you get into the park, to get anywhere you have to go thru narrow paths, and the one and only entrance/exit bridge, and then to the front of the Tree of Life. And everyone going out has to do the same in reverse.

Imagine if in the MK everyone had to get almost all the way to the castle stage before being allowing to go left or right.

YOU WILL GENUFLECT TO THE TREE OF LIFE ON THE WAY IN OR OUT... YOU HAVE NO CHOICE... ITS OUR FANTASTIC WEENIE AND YOU WILL ACKNOWLEDGE IT NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU'VE BEEN TO THE PARK... AND NOT FROM A DISTANCE. YOU WILL APPROACH OR YOU WILL BE FORBIDDEN ALL THE PARK HAS TO OFFER. LOOK. AT. THE. TREE!!! (by the way, hope you enjoyed the long walk we made you go thu first, you see, we wanted the tree in the *middle* of the park, and the park is really big and goes back a long way, so, it'd be like we put Spaceship Earth in the middle of World Showcase Lagoon, and didn't allow you to get to Soarin' or Test Track until you made the trek all the way to the lagoon first, but, c'mon, it's a pretty sweet tree, right? we put a lot of effort into it and you ought to see it.. or get the heck out of my park!!!)
DAK is one of the worst-planned parks in the Disney portfolio. The walkways and attraction locations don’t make any sense for crowd control. I respect Rohde and know he’s talented, but we have to be honest that DAK has some decisions based on ego rather than operational reality.

I don’t care how authentic the paint jobs are on the buildings, or how many imported knick-knacks are in a queue, if it takes an eternity to walk from one ride/exhibit to another.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
I thought MGM Studios kind of had the same approach (initially). You had a Main Street leading up to the Chinese Theater, like the castle, and from there you branched out either into the actual studios (now Animation Courtyard) or Echo Lake.

View attachment 503063
Add Sunset and the TOT and Maroon Studios, and that would’ve been a heck of a park in the ‘90s. Sigh. What could’ve been...
 

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