Notice of Preparation of a Draft Subsequent Environmental Impact Report No. 352 and Scoping Meeting for the DisneylandForward Project

[October82]

What are the odds of this happening and not severely value engineered?

Zero.

Disneyland Forward is not a project proposal, it's an effort to get the land Disney owns rezoned so they don't need approval from the city of Anaheim for future projects. This is largely a consequence of the failure of the eastern gateway project to get the required political support. Which, given its potentially negative impact on surrounding businesses, was predictable.

 

[chadwpalm]

Can anyone shed light on the proposed closing of portions of Disneyland Drive?

Are you referring to this?

If so, you've got to look at the context. As stated in the first paragraph, this section is talking about modifications/amendments to the Circulation Element of the City's General Plan and the Orange county MPAH. That bullet point isn't talking about the removal of the physical road itself, but the removal of the road being part of those plans, thus making the section between Magic Way and Katella privatized. They don't want that road to be considered a major artery at the city or county level.

This allows Disney to do what they want with that road without having to conform to the circulation patterns and road width/lane restrictions outlined in those plans.

The other two bullet points should read the same way. They want current city and county uses as well as future plans for those roads to be amended.

 

[TP2000]

Zero.

Disneyland Forward is not a project proposal, it's an effort to get the land Disney owns rezoned so they don't need approval from the city of Anaheim for future projects. This is largely a consequence of the failure of the eastern gateway project to get the required political support. Which, given its potentially negative impact on surrounding businesses, was predictable.

Agreed, but they want the zoning changes so they can build at least a few new rides on the land currently zoned for hotels. They've about maxed out the current footprints of both parks, so they'll need new expansion land across Disneyland Drive in the next few decades.

Best case scenario is for these zoning changes to be approved, and then Disney sits on them for the next few years until they've got an executive team that can be trusted to do it correctly.

 

[TP2000]

In talking about New Orleans vs. St. Louis vs. Anaheim, this thread reminded me of how massive and affluent Orange County is all on its own.

If you picked up Orange County and plopped it in the middle of Iowa or Kentucky, it would immediately become the 18th largest metro area in the United States, but also be way above the US average for affluence and household income. Population-wise as a metro area, it would slot between San Diego and Tampa, and look like this comparatively...

15. Seattle-Tacoma = 4.0 Million People, $392 Billion GDP
16. Minneapolis-St. Paul = 3.7 Million, $263 Billion GDP
17. San Diego = 3.3 Million, $245 Billion GDP
18. Orange County = 3.2 Million, $270 Billion GDP
19. Tampa-St. Petersburg = 3.1 Million, $159 Billion GDP
20. Denver = 3.0 Million, $214 Billion GDP
23. St. Louis = 2.8 Million, $169 Billion GDP
46. New Orleans = 1.3 Million, $80 Billion GDP

What's interesting about Orange County is that it has no urban core. It is a series of mid-sized and small cities all wedded together in mostly suburban happiness. Anaheim is the center for pro sports and entertainment, while Irvine takes the crown for finance and corporate power, with a close second in Newport Center. Public academia is centered in Irvine (Go Anteaters!) and Fullerton (Go Titans! Go Hornets!), with a shout-out to tony Chapman University (Go Panthers!) over in Orange. South Coast Metro is home to the arts and culture of OC, plus the most profitable giant mall per square foot in the nation (Go Swedes!).

It's a very de-centralized county, but taken together it's massive and wealthy.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, xe's and xim's and even the +'s, I present.... Orange County!

List of U.S. metropolitan areas by GDP - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gross Domestic Product: All Industries in Orange County, CA

Graph and download economic data for Gross Domestic Product: All Industries in Orange County, CA (GDPALL06059) from 2001 to 2019 about Orange County, CA; Los Angeles; CA; industry; GDP; and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[Figments Friend]

( waves team flag... )



-

 

[Nirya]

Agreed, but they want the zoning changes so they can build at least a few new rides on the land currently zoned for hotels. They've about maxed out the current footprints of both parks, so they'll need new expansion land across Disneyland Drive in the next few decades.

Best case scenario is for these zoning changes to be approved, and then Disney sits on them for the next few years until they've got an executive team that can be trusted to do it correctly.

I’m still of the opinion that building new attractions on the other side of Disneyland Drive is a red herring meant to push approval through. They still have land to develop on the backside of DCA, and theoretically land to the north of Hollywood Land that would be opened up.

This is still mostly about the Eastern Gateway that Disney desperately wants. It’s a rope-a-dope on everyone: use something shiny (new theme park lands!) to get what they actually want (a new parking structure and bus drop-off located more off-site).

 

[TP2000]

I’m still of the opinion that building new attractions on the other side of Disneyland Drive is a red herring meant to push approval through. They still have land to develop on the backside of DCA, and theoretically land to the north of Hollywood Land that would be opened up.

This is still mostly about the Eastern Gateway that Disney desperately wants. It’s a rope-a-dope on everyone: use something shiny (new theme park lands!) to get what they actually want (a new parking structure and bus drop-off located more off-site).

You know, with the current executive team in place, it could very well be. I don't disagree with you, it's at least a distinct possibility.

A reminder on who the players are when the Eastern Gateway fell apart as Disneyland's relationship with Anaheim imploded and they went to war with each other. Michael Colglazier was the Disneyland President, and Bob Chapek was the Parks Chairman. Chapek was involved in the Anaheim-Disney war of 2015-2017.

Bob Chapek is now the Chairman of the entire company. Josh D'Amaro is the Parks Chairman, and Josh was minding his own business in Florida during 2015-17, and then made a name for himself by being the anti-Colglazier when he arrived in Anaheim in 2018.

Josh was a non-snob and a likable person, two skill sets Colglazier lacked, and Josh did great work in patching things over with the city and cancelling all the Colgalzier-era projects that seemed dubious or cheap (Eastern Gateway, 4th Hotel, etc.) It got Josh promoted quickly over Colglazier to the Parks Chairman role, and Colglazier left Disney because of it.

Then there's current Disneyland President Ken Potluck, which is almost not worth mentioning. His predecessor only lasted four months in the job, just enough time to get some good Instagram posts in for herself. Ken has been there a year or so now, but where will he be a year from now? Only the wind knows, the way they cycle through executives in TDA.

The only real continuity in this whole 2015-2021 timeframe is Bob Chapek. That's not a good thing.

 

[BeentoallDParks]

I hope the pandemic has shown the city that without Disneyland, they have nothing.

Some compromises may need to be made, but overall, they should give Disney the right to do what they want with their property.

This is a good point. Does anyone here have a read on where the relationship between Anaheim and Disneyland now stands?

 

[Bullseye1967]

This is a good point. Does anyone here have a read on where the relationship between Anaheim and Disneyland now stands?

I am sure @Darkbeer1 knows but he's not talking.

 

[TP2000]

This is a good point. Does anyone here have a read on where the relationship between Anaheim and Disneyland now stands?

It's dramatically improved.

Josh D'Amaro healed most of those wounds back in 2018-19, which was one of the reasons he got the big promotion to Parks Chairman in 2020 over Michael Colglazier (Chapek had promoted Colglazier to Asia's top exec and technically up the totel pole from Josh as Disneyland President, and Colglazier should have been in line for the Parks Chairman gig but got denied when Josh showed how effective he was at cleaning up Colglazier's messes. Colglazier left Disney very quickly after that.)

As for Anaheim's City Council willingness to play nicely with Disneyland, the voting record of the past year shows the dramatic improvement there.

For instance, during the long Covid closure imposed by Sacramento, the Anaheim City Council voted to make a statement about reopening Disneyland ASAP. The only "No" vote on that came from our favorite cranky Socialist, Dr. Jose Moreno. The remainder of the city council, made up of Republicans and centrist Democrats, voted in favor of allowing Disneyland to reopen.

It was mostly ceremonial, but sent a strong message to Sacramento that Anaheim was strongly in favor of Disneyland. All except the cranky Socialist, of course.

Anaheim Supports Assembly Bill to Speed Disney Reopening

The city showed support for a state assembly bill that would let large theme parks open in moderate COVID-19 tier at 25% capacity.

voiceofoc.org

 

[truecoat]

This is a good point. Does anyone here have a read on where the relationship between Anaheim and Disneyland now stands?

The city of Anaheim is like a meth user who needs Disney for that next fix. Some of them may not like their dealer but they also can't kick the habit.

 

[DLR92]

I thought the relationship was still negative. But if they are trying to move forward I just hope Disney is not bully the city.

 

[el_super]

I thought the relationship was still negative. But if they are trying to move forward I just hope Disney is not bully the city.

Negative isn't really the right word, because most everyone in the city supports Disney and wants to see them do well. There are of course issues with income disparity and paying fair wages that do get raised from time to time.

But the most divisive issue is the city giving away subsidies and tax money to Disney. Shady backroom deals and corporate gifts to steal money that could go to make life better dor the actual citizens of Anaheim.

Considering how poorly the Eastern Gateway was handled, and the pending lawsuits over the backroom Angel Stadium deal, it seems unlikely the city will want to let Disney's proposal get pushed through without some serious deliberations.

 

[TP2000]

But the most divisive issue is the city giving away subsidies and tax money to Disney.

Aside from that idiotic parking garage deal that cheap- Eisner weaseled into 25 years ago, what tax subsidies is Anaheim currently providing to the Walt Disney Company?

Shady backroom deals and corporate gifts to steal money that could go to make life better dor the actual citizens of Anaheim.

What money is the Walt Disney Company "stealing" from Anaheim taxpayers?

We've seen the massive city budgets Anaheim is blessed with, created mostly by the tourism industry based around Disneyland. A city budget roughly twice the size of St. Louis and three times the size of New Orleans.

What has the Walt Disney Company stolen from Anaheim taxpayers?

And what would Anaheim life be like today had Walt chosen Pomona instead? (Hint: Anaheim without Walt would be Stanton with closer freeway access)

 

[Darkbeer1]

Reminder, the meeting is tonight at 5 PM at the Downtown Community Center, ironically Disney was a donor to help get it built.

250 E. Center Street
Anaheim, CA 92805

 

[CaptinEO]

Negative isn't really the right word, because most everyone in the city supports Disney and wants to see them do well. There are of course issues with income disparity and paying fair wages that do get raised from time to time.

But the most divisive issue is the city giving away subsidies and tax money to Disney. Shady backroom deals and corporate gifts to steal money that could go to make life better dor the actual citizens of Anaheim.

Considering how poorly the Eastern Gateway was handled, and the pending lawsuits over the backroom Angel Stadium deal, it seems unlikely the city will want to let Disney's proposal get pushed through without some serious deliberations.

As for as I'm aware, the parking structure was the one time this happened in recent memory.

Disney does fight against a ticket tax, but that tax would be on the consumer to pay. That being said Disney may theoretically have to lower their prices if there is a ticket tax.

 

[Darkbeer1]

As for as I'm aware, the parking structure was the one time this happened in recent memory.

Disney does fight against a ticket tax, but that tax would be on the consumer to pay. That being said Disney may theoretically have to lower their prices if there is a ticket tax.

Disney has agreed to be subject to a Ticket Tax, but that Tax would have to apply to all forms of entertainment in Anaheim, such as sports, concerts, movies, etc. So that tax would hit the residents wallets just the same as the tourists.

The law prevents singingly out a specific company such as Disney. That is why Measure L went to the "Tax Rebate" eligible properties route. And why UNITE HERE can't just add a new proposition to "fix their mistake".

So if the city wants to look at a Ticket Tax, you are going after the Honda Center, Angel Stadium, House of Blues, the Grove of Anaheim, the Convention Center, etc. Strong groups that will fight against the tax.

 

[TP2000]

As for as I'm aware, the parking structure was the one time this happened in recent memory.

You are correct. That 1990's parking structure deal is the only time that Disney got a subsidy from the city of Anaheim.

Although Darkbeer has explained that the money for that was pulled together by Anaheim from Federal, State and County funds designed for roads and infrastructure. So even with that silly parking structure deal, it wasn't money pulled from Anaheim tax collections directly.

Disney does fight against a ticket tax, but that tax would be on the consumer to pay. That being said Disney may theoretically have to lower their prices if there is a ticket tax.

A tax on Disneyland tickets is not paid for by Disney. It's paid for by the customers who buy the tickets.

It's like paying the California sales tax on your latest Target run. Target Corporation doesn't pay that tax on the stuff you bought, you just paid that tax yourself.

 

[TP2000]

The law prevents singingly out a specific company such as Disney. That is why Measure L went to the "Tax Rebate" eligible properties route. And why UNITE HERE can't just add a new proposition to "fix their mistake".

I can only imagine how mad the UNITE HERE union bosses are over this. They wrote their ballot measure so poorly that they lost in court, even after they got their ballot measure passed by the voters.

Talk about incompetence. With no one to blame but themselves. I wonder how quickly the union fired their lawyers after that?

 

[Darkbeer1]

Looking at a map at the meeting. The Alpine Inn is not part of TWDC property.