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Non Disney Related - Hurricane Katrina - New Orleans, LA

Woody13

New Member
wannab@dis said:
Woody (or others)... help me out here.

I think I'm right on this, but don't have enough knowledge on the matter to be sure. I know the Guard units are under state control. The military units (Army, Navy, CG, etc) are under federal control. If I remember my Civics classes right, the military cannot go into a domestic region without being requested by state government. I also remember a news story from the Pentagon saying they were pulling units together but had not been asked to "put boots on the ground" in the hurricane zone.

Expanding on Woody's assessment, my first inclination is that the delay of help has been caused by the lack of leadership at the State and Local levels. They are overwhelmed and keep saying they need help, but they are not following the correct procedures to set up command and control and get the federal military involved.

No matter how this happened or who is to blame in this situation, I believe some changes need to be made so the federal government can supersede the local authorities and take control of things without the "proper" proceedings taking place. The problem with this route is that if abused, it can stomp "state rights" which is the reason the checks and balances are in the constitution.
The explanation is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. This law was passed by the U.S. Congress shortly after the civil war. It is designed to keep the military away from civilian affairs, particularly in the matters of search and rescue and law enforcement. The National Guard is specifically exempted from Posse Comitatus. The U.S. Coast Guard is also exempt because they fall under the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (and formerly they were under U.S. Department of Transportation). So both the National Guard and the U.S. Coast Guard can provide full help and assistance. The regular military (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines) fall under the U.S. Department of Defense and they are very restricted by Posse Comitatus.

The real problem in that region is the lack of command and control. Many local elected officials are not doing their jobs. It didn't seem to dawn on them that relief centers and distribution hubs needed to be set up to get help and supplies to the victims. I know that both LA and MS were very afraid of the expenses involved. They waited to act until FEMA promised to pay 100% of the emergency response costs (normally FEMA pays 75% and the state pays 25%). The time they lost was immeasurable!
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
Good grief, now even more chaos! An evacuation bus taking people to the astro dome tipped over. No word on whether or not anyone was killed.
 

Cliffordsmon

New Member
The bus was not heading to Houston. It was traveling north on Int. 49.

The news said one person dead and 10 were critical.

The Astrodome is full.
 

pinkrose

Well-Known Member
We are getting some here also. They set up our Civic Center in Downtown Birmingham. I'm not sure if any from the Dome are coming. There have been people staying at the Civic Center for a few days now.
 

Disnut

Member
Do we have pictures of the people that are missing from WDWmagic? They are showing alot of people on the news and we might recognize someone from here.
 

Erika

Moderator
FutureCEO said:
isnt it sad how most americans are nice after disasters


Any time somebody is nice, if it is sincere, it is a good thing. I don't find that sad at all. And I can't think of any time when compassion is more needed than at a time like this. Makes sense to me.
 

sillyspook13

Well-Known Member
One thing that touched me was the footage of men helping other people seek dry ground. These men had inflatabe air matresses and large plastic tubs. They would float their makeshift rafts until they found people carrying their belongings through the water. They would load up the belongings and float them to dry ground (in this case, a small patch of land surrounding a Winn Dixie Supermarket). Sometimes they would even let an elderly or ill person ride.

It shows that, in times of need, people really can pull together to help each other out. :)
 

Woody13

New Member
FutureCEO said:
isnt it sad how most americans are nice after disasters
Doctors and nurses have to perform triage in cases of mass casualties. They must decide who to save and who to let die based upon the extent of their injuries. The rest of us perform "social" triage. We decide who deserves nice treatment and who deserves to be ignored and forgotten based upon their behavior. You can't help everyone.

People that use improper punctuation often get left behind.
 

speck76

Well-Known Member
FutureCEO said:
isnt it sad how most americans are nice after disasters

no, not at all....the sad part is that the majority do not volunteer, or donate to charity, until there is a disaster.
 

pinkrose

Well-Known Member
This was in our weather blog and I just wanted to pass it on...

Call For Help - Mississippi

Posted by James Spann on September 4, 2005, 8:05 am
in General Thoughts ( WeatherTalk)


I received this note from a local dentist who just got back from coastal Mississippi late last night. I had great concern this was going to happen; all media attention has shifted to New Orleans with parts of coastal Mississippi being pretty much ignored. The communities of concern here are Waveland and Bay St. Louis. I have seen no coverage or attention payed to these places.

This is a long note, but please take the time to read it, and spread the word. Print it out and get it to your church and lets help these people.

Dear James,

You probably will not remember me but I emailed you some time ago about the 1974 Guin tornado. Anyway, my name is Keith Miller and I am a dentist in Vestavia Hills and also a private pilot. As you know, the people hardest hit in southern Mississippi have been neglected and FEMA non-existent.

Let me brief you on what we did before I ask my question. Earlier in the week while watching all the news stations on Hurricane Katrina, all attention was centered on New Orleans and nothing was said of how southern Mississippi had faired other than Biloxi/Gulfport. I made a phone call to a close pilot friend and local attorney Bob Echols Bob has a piper lance like mine at BHM and we have flown relief missions to the Bahamas before. Well, we started making phone call for donations of water,food,medicine, baby supplies, toiletries, etc. in bulk and we would fly these supplies down there ourselves and distribute to the most needed. We got a so-so response on donations.

Yesterday, Bob Echols and I loaded my plane full of all we had and headed to Gulfport/Biloxi airport as Lifeguard N1057H. But first, there is what is called a blanked Temporary Flight Restriction zone over the entire disaster area preventing air travel except for military and civilian relief aircraft. As you know, President Bush was visiting that area yesterday as well. Therefore, there was a Presidential TFR preventing all civilian air traffic. That is the FAA for you. TFR's were developed after the terrorist attacks in 2001. The procedure was to contact the FAA recovery desk in D.C. which we tried for a day and a half. We finally got through to the recovery desk just prior to departing and they denied us access. Even President Bush said cut all red tape. We took off anyway how due to the desperate need for these people.

As we got closer, we talked to Omaha 45 which is a military air traffic surveillance plane and he was handling all air traffic. We told him we were a Lifeguard piper lance with relief supplies and requested permission to land at Biloxi Gulfport. He cleared us in to the TFR and as we were at 2000 feet MSL, Air Force One helicopter and several Blackhawk helicopters passed 500 feet over us. They really did understand the dire need. We surveyed Biloxi and Gulfport and they suffered damage but have plenty of supplies.

We found a local who knew the area and drove us around to the areas hit by the east and northeast eyewall. This turned out to be Bay St. Louis and Waveland. These towns suffered catastrophic damage and are on limited supplies. We started working our way through church shelters asking people what they needed and who need to be evacuated out. On the way out, we stopped at a local Kmart where the parking lot was named Kamp Katrina. There were families with nothing camping under tents, tarps, and in their cars. The children were low on diapers and formula and had sunburn and bug bites.

There were several places we were told we were the first ones to check on them. Volunteers in Bay St. Louis are going house to house marking a black X on the house if their is a corpse and a red X for survivors and vacant houses. We went back to Gulfport and flew over to Stennis Int. airport in Bay St. Louis. A FEMA rep from Florida had set up post at the north end of the runway. All he wanted to do was inventory, do paperwork, and store the FEMA bought supplies. A Colonel landed in a helicopter and asked what was in one of the semi trailers. The FEMA rep said it was reserved for the EOC posts. The Colonel stated that their were families and children starving and running out of supplies in Waveland and Bay St. Louis. The FEMA rep would not budge and the Colonel told him in a diplomatic way what he thought of it.

We new we were not working with these guys so we found the local city commissioner. He organized a truck and a crew to load the supplies and personally deliver them to the victims at the parking lot. By the way, a national guard sergeant and his wife stranded in Waveland asked us to contact his family in Dallas to tell them he is alive and to bring a tank of gas so he can get back to his group at Biloxi. He is to leave for Iraq on Monday.

Today, David McGiffen who is a Cardiac Surgeon with a plane like mine loaded our planes to capacity with supplies donated by people we contacted and flew them to Stennis airport. We were arranged a crew that was shipped in from "New Mexico to off load our supplies onto a flat bed truck. Two vans were provided for us by the Wisconsin Forestry Division deployed there to clear trees and a local resident now homeless to show us around. We ended up getting to ground zero on Main Street in Bay St. Louis.

James, houses are moved inland. There are only foundations and swimming pool outlines left on the first three blocks. We were the first people they had seen to offer help. We offloaded our supplies at the Stennis high school and got a list from the local sheriff deputies their what else they need. Nylon rope, blankets, food, water, basic livable items. These people have nothing but the clothes on their backs. People their reported the water got from 30-38 feet. A local deputy who spent the storm in a boat rescuing people said he rode out Camille when he was ten and this is ten times worse. I went through the F-5 tornado in Guin in 1974 and the damage there is worse. The sheriff said the got a hurricane and a tsunami at the same time.

So, what I am asking is if you are even in town this weekend to ask your church members and anyone else to please help out our neighbors and ask for donations in bulk. Bob Echols, David McGiffin and myself will personally fly and hand deliver the supplies to the workers and victims at ground zero. We have transportation for us and the supplies in to Waveland and Bay St. Louis arranged. We are planning on spending Sunday collecting supplies and plan on multiple flights on Monday until all supplies are delivered.

I have arranged with David Moore (GM at Mercury Air Center BHM) a hanger for storage of the supplies until we load them. It is the old Hanger 8 Building on the south ramp of runways 18/36. People making deliveries are to call Mercury Air Center at 599-7613 and they will sent someone to open the gate and direct them. Any thing you can do to help will be greatly appreciated. We are donating our planes and fuel for these missions. You can contact me: (c)205-902-1935 or (h)970-5527.

H. Keith Miller
 

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