Matpez
Well-Known Member
It made it so easy to go to the parks and not worry about needing extra money...
I think removing the included tip will end up hurting the wait staff AND the overall participation in the plan itself.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
No gratuity - good or bad for CMs?
- Thread starter NewfieFan
- Start date
It made it so easy to go to the parks and not worry about needing extra money...
I think removing the included tip will end up hurting the wait staff AND the overall participation in the plan itself.
I think it either went up or down $1
djmatthews
Well-Known Member
I always find ‘tipping threads’ very interesting because this is one of the things where the UK and USA do vary quite a lot.
In the UK whilst tipping servers is becoming more and more common certainly in larger cities and in finer restaurants, however, it is still nothing like the culture that the USA has. For example, very few people would tip a waiter / waitress in Pizza Hut, and if they do I highly doubt would be 20% - 25%. If you didn’t leave a tip in a restaurant, it wouldn’t be questioned.
I for one do not tip very often any more - only for exceptional service. Mainly because I never get extra money carrying out my job role which is essentially what servers are doing.
I went out for a meal two weeks ago with my family, the bill came to around £100 ($200 approx) and we tipped about £4 ($8 approx), the waiter still made nearly an hours wages just for doing his job.
That being said I will follow the rules when in the USA and other ‘tipping countries’, however, my question is, what exactly is a standard tip, there’s a huge difference between 15% and 25%. When we went to the USA for the first time, we would have happily walked out of a restaurant without leaving a tip - it’s a good job we were with our American family who informed of this cultural difference.
As far as the original topic goes, I’m not sure what to think, there are way too many variables. On the one hand not all tips will be declared so there will be a tax saving (that’s a whole different subject), but on the other there is no guarantee of getting a tip of 18% - I suppose tips could range from 0% - 25% or more.
There is the possibility people will tip based on what they paid for the dining plan, not for the food, although that might depend on how the bill is printed.
I’m interested to see how this will play out.
In the UK whilst tipping servers is becoming more and more common certainly in larger cities and in finer restaurants, however, it is still nothing like the culture that the USA has. For example, very few people would tip a waiter / waitress in Pizza Hut, and if they do I highly doubt would be 20% - 25%. If you didn’t leave a tip in a restaurant, it wouldn’t be questioned.
I for one do not tip very often any more - only for exceptional service. Mainly because I never get extra money carrying out my job role which is essentially what servers are doing.
I went out for a meal two weeks ago with my family, the bill came to around £100 ($200 approx) and we tipped about £4 ($8 approx), the waiter still made nearly an hours wages just for doing his job.
That being said I will follow the rules when in the USA and other ‘tipping countries’, however, my question is, what exactly is a standard tip, there’s a huge difference between 15% and 25%. When we went to the USA for the first time, we would have happily walked out of a restaurant without leaving a tip - it’s a good job we were with our American family who informed of this cultural difference.
As far as the original topic goes, I’m not sure what to think, there are way too many variables. On the one hand not all tips will be declared so there will be a tax saving (that’s a whole different subject), but on the other there is no guarantee of getting a tip of 18% - I suppose tips could range from 0% - 25% or more.
There is the possibility people will tip based on what they paid for the dining plan, not for the food, although that might depend on how the bill is printed.
I’m interested to see how this will play out.
JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
I hate it when I'm forced to follow the federal law and report my income for tax purposes.
"I went out for a meal two weeks ago with my family, the bill came to around £100 ($200 approx) and we tipped about £4 ($8 approx), the waiter still made nearly an hours wages just for doing his job"
The problem with this thinking is that(not sure about wdw)many,many restaurants pay far below minimum wage so the tip is what makes up that difference.In reality,the people who own the restaurants should be taken to task for not paying wages that are decent.But then on the other side ,many of the people who work this type of job do not report any of it in taxes.So,i guess it depends on how you feel about avoiding taxes when someone works a less than stellar income type of job.Really,unless someone did something really bad and out of the ordinary,they should be tipped accordingly.Most servers are doing the job because they want to supplement an income,or are in school etc.,so a tip really makes a difference,a decent tip means the difference between a great night and a lousy one.then again,there's always stripping:lol: -JOKE-
The problem with this thinking is that(not sure about wdw)many,many restaurants pay far below minimum wage so the tip is what makes up that difference.In reality,the people who own the restaurants should be taken to task for not paying wages that are decent.But then on the other side ,many of the people who work this type of job do not report any of it in taxes.So,i guess it depends on how you feel about avoiding taxes when someone works a less than stellar income type of job.Really,unless someone did something really bad and out of the ordinary,they should be tipped accordingly.Most servers are doing the job because they want to supplement an income,or are in school etc.,so a tip really makes a difference,a decent tip means the difference between a great night and a lousy one.then again,there's always stripping:lol: -JOKE-
I'm going to ignore the other changes to the plan, becuase I'm told that regardless of those changes, waitstaff wanted the change in the way tips are handled.
I was surprised to hear that waitstaff support this change to no longer include the tip. For one, people will order cheaper things now that they actually have to pay some amount based on what they order. For another, some will not realize they need to tip, or may be annoyed at finding it out. And third, visitors from outside the US do not generally tip as much those from the US, and non-US visitors make up a fairly high percentage of WDW guests.
These three negative would be offset by 1) those who will tip more than 18%, and 2) the tax savings from not reporting tips, which is a violation of the US tax code.
Unless I miss something, the fact that servers support this change (which I was told by several restaurant managers is the case) is based largely on an intent to commit tax fraud -- a very common kind of tax fraud, but tax fraud nonetheless. I know some waitstaff believe that, legally, they are only required to report 8% of the check as tips, or only the tips left on credit cards and therefore included in their paychecks, but it isn't true. The law is clear.
I was surprised to hear that waitstaff support this change to no longer include the tip. For one, people will order cheaper things now that they actually have to pay some amount based on what they order. For another, some will not realize they need to tip, or may be annoyed at finding it out. And third, visitors from outside the US do not generally tip as much those from the US, and non-US visitors make up a fairly high percentage of WDW guests.
These three negative would be offset by 1) those who will tip more than 18%, and 2) the tax savings from not reporting tips, which is a violation of the US tax code.
Unless I miss something, the fact that servers support this change (which I was told by several restaurant managers is the case) is based largely on an intent to commit tax fraud -- a very common kind of tax fraud, but tax fraud nonetheless. I know some waitstaff believe that, legally, they are only required to report 8% of the check as tips, or only the tips left on credit cards and therefore included in their paychecks, but it isn't true. The law is clear.
Evan's Servants
New Member
I'm also a bit surprised that the CM's have requested this. Frankly, while we've had some pretty darn good service from the waitstaff (and we're typically 20% tippers), we've also had some truly abominable service. Seriously, how difficult is something like an Ohana breakfast were everything is served family style? I suspect if Quadid had to survive on tips he actually EARNED that morning, he would have been hurting instead of pocketing 18% for doing nothing.
PhilharMagician
Well-Known Member
The price of the plan is going down $1.00
The tip should have never been included when the DDP started. Now with the presedence set it should be left alone and the rate per day for the plan should just increase to cover costs. The servers are making good money if they are being tipped the full 18% by Disney considering that the restaurants are at full capacity from opening to closing. I think that the servers are going to take a hit when this reverts back to customer tipping in 08'.
I will say that I will not be purchasing the plan again as a DVC member after the changes take place. I will be using the DDE till that gets bumped.
The tip should have never been included when the DDP started. Now with the presedence set it should be left alone and the rate per day for the plan should just increase to cover costs. The servers are making good money if they are being tipped the full 18% by Disney considering that the restaurants are at full capacity from opening to closing. I think that the servers are going to take a hit when this reverts back to customer tipping in 08'.
I will say that I will not be purchasing the plan again as a DVC member after the changes take place. I will be using the DDE till that gets bumped.
OGMickey
Member
First of all i have worked for the Food service industry for a long time.. In america ...resturant wait staff (aka servers) make on avarage $2-3 an hour and they dont work long shifts (4-6 hour shifts). So if you dont tip them they have no $$$...most places i worked 4.... ur paycheck is $60 and that all goes to taxes and u get to keep ur tip money untaxed..... so if i made $300 in tips i get to keep that unless i have to split my tips with busboys/girls......so if i didnt get a tip i was making no money....and dont give me that if u work harder or do above and beyond ull get a better tip....thats a load of horse @#$%...ive practicaly wiped people hands for them and they stiff me on a tip......and when a resturant is crowded its hard to give great personal service........also when the chefs mess up ur order and takes awhile to get it out to u the customer.... the server is the one who gets blamed for it and then looses out on getting a tip....all im trying to say is when u go out to eat stop and think that the money u leave for a tip is the only money these people make......i dont want to here... their still getting a paycheck because they r not.... they live off of tips ...no tips=no morgage payment that month....so do the servers a favor tip them for what they do or go and serve urself....may the bashing begin
I have been wondering that myself. Personally I think the decision made by the CM's is going to bite them in the you know where.
daliseurat
Member
I think most CM's are going to get the shaft with this decision. Between cheap tippers and people who don't realize that tips aren't included anymore that 18% is going to be more like 5%. I'm sure that the UNION figures that most people would normally tip 20% because it's easier to figure out, and this would mean more tip. The UNION also supposes that each CM provides such premium service that they naturally would get a much bigger tip if left to the guest. Not going to happen. The DDP giving the CM's 18% was a gift. It made certain the CM's (even those who didn't deserve it) a fair tip. And if your waiter was spectacular, there was nothing stopping you from leaving extra.
As for me, I will usually leave 18% for the service as long as it was at least decent. If the service was excellant, I'll go 20-25%. But if the service was poor, I will tip lower. As someone else pointed out, waiters don't get paid much, because the majority of their pay comes from tips. Which is supposed to be an incentive for them to do their very best. So I am not inclined to fork over a large tip if they don't actually earn it. I do have to say I have almost always received above average to supurb service at Disney, so this change might get them more money out of me. But I have, on occasion received poor service, and I dropped the tip to 15%.
For me, I loved having the tip included. It just made it simpler. One card, done. Although, as we did have wine with one meal, we did have to figure out a tip for that.
I hope I'm wrong and the CM's do benefit.
As for me, I will usually leave 18% for the service as long as it was at least decent. If the service was excellant, I'll go 20-25%. But if the service was poor, I will tip lower. As someone else pointed out, waiters don't get paid much, because the majority of their pay comes from tips. Which is supposed to be an incentive for them to do their very best. So I am not inclined to fork over a large tip if they don't actually earn it. I do have to say I have almost always received above average to supurb service at Disney, so this change might get them more money out of me. But I have, on occasion received poor service, and I dropped the tip to 15%.
For me, I loved having the tip included. It just made it simpler. One card, done. Although, as we did have wine with one meal, we did have to figure out a tip for that.
I hope I'm wrong and the CM's do benefit.
djmatthews
Well-Known Member
I was just making cultural comparisons. I believe the minimum wage in the UK is far higher than that in the USA. The current minimum is £5.52 ($11 approx) this is for all workers regardless of the job and industry, plus we get free health care which I know is a major cost to US citizens.
As mentioned, I do tip in the US because I do believe in 'when in Rome...' and understand that the tip is part of a server’s wage.
OGMickey
Member
dont get me wrong if a server is crap dont leave much of a tip....but still leave him something for what service he performed.....iv had tables were the people ran me ragged and it affected the service of other tables ...just put that into consideration when tipping...u may had a bad dinning experience because of other guests ...not directly the server
awalkinthepark
New Member
The CMs will lose in the long run.....less food ordered lower tip, and many still follow the 15% rule(which is still within guidelines for good service-I looked it up), and many guests will revert back to chicken strip and double cheeseburger baskets at the counter service restaurants because the DDP has just lost a lot of it's appeal by dropping both a course and the tip.
Initially Disney wins because they save A LOT of money by dropping the appetizer and tip from the per day DDP charge. Long term though Disney will feel the pinch of people venturing off site for meals, and more people spending time deciding between french fries or grapes.
Initially Disney wins because they save A LOT of money by dropping the appetizer and tip from the per day DDP charge. Long term though Disney will feel the pinch of people venturing off site for meals, and more people spending time deciding between french fries or grapes.
Thiger
New Member
for me tipping depends on a) location (fast food, restaurant, fine dining, bar)
b) quality of service
I never tip for fast food (in Canada most employers dissuade employees from taking tips) unless something truly amazing happens and I
can somehow slip them the tip. 9.99 times out of 10 though, I dont tip.
Restaraunts i always tip 15% unless i get really shoddy service. then I tip lower than that.
Fine Dining I always tip more like 20%+ as usually the experience you get is absolutely amazing.
Bars/Clubs I always tip $1 a drink.
I find that tipping shouldn't be obligatory, but if your server has met your needs (took order, brought you your food, etc) then they should get a minimal tip. If they went out of their way, give them more.
I think its a two-way street though, you'll find if you frequent any place where you tip, you will get better service next time. Often by going back a few times and tipping well you'll get a lot more service and special treats!
Plus I also gotta blast the stereotype that Canadians are cheap. lol
b) quality of service
I never tip for fast food (in Canada most employers dissuade employees from taking tips) unless something truly amazing happens and I
can somehow slip them the tip. 9.99 times out of 10 though, I dont tip.
Restaraunts i always tip 15% unless i get really shoddy service. then I tip lower than that.
Fine Dining I always tip more like 20%+ as usually the experience you get is absolutely amazing.
Bars/Clubs I always tip $1 a drink.
I find that tipping shouldn't be obligatory, but if your server has met your needs (took order, brought you your food, etc) then they should get a minimal tip. If they went out of their way, give them more.
I think its a two-way street though, you'll find if you frequent any place where you tip, you will get better service next time. Often by going back a few times and tipping well you'll get a lot more service and special treats!
Plus I also gotta blast the stereotype that Canadians are cheap. lol
bayoutinkbelle
Active Member
My first reaction when I read about the changes was that the CMs would lose in the long run because of low tippers, those who forget and those who just don't care. Just call me cynical.
Out of all the changes, this bugged me most. Not because I don't want to tip, but it was losing that convenience factor that irked me. I don't like carrying cash on me in the parks, other than a few bucks for odds and ends. Oh well.
I'll be OK with it and I certainly like the fact that I can tip now according to the service received. There were a few times this past trip that I felt the server was getting too much with that guaranteed tip, but other times when the extra tip we left was very much deserved.
I haven't really looked hard at the deluxe plan yet. I could see myself using it if I like what it offers.
Out of all the changes, this bugged me most. Not because I don't want to tip, but it was losing that convenience factor that irked me. I don't like carrying cash on me in the parks, other than a few bucks for odds and ends. Oh well.
I'll be OK with it and I certainly like the fact that I can tip now according to the service received. There were a few times this past trip that I felt the server was getting too much with that guaranteed tip, but other times when the extra tip we left was very much deserved.
I haven't really looked hard at the deluxe plan yet. I could see myself using it if I like what it offers.
Chezman1399
Active Member
With those plans Disney automatically makes it 18% on average people on vacation I believe tend to tip higher than that, and they'll get more from people who just don't care to break bills, so I think it'll be better for the cast members.
ClemsonTigger
Naturally Grumpy
You are correct...minimum wage in the US is $5.52, but individual states sometimes have higher minimums. Florida I believe is $6.67. There is an exemption for restaurant workers (not for Disney luckily...I think) that they are not required to be paid minimum wage (because of tips). One great benefit of Disney employ are the benefits which are far better than other parts of the service industry where some receive nothing...
Also there is a difference in cultural approach to tipping. In the US tipping of 18-20% as sit down restaurants is almost expected (regardless of quality of service
) but it is very different in Europe as you know.