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No fastpasses available today?

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Yes, I've mentioned that... I just find it hard to believe the take-up rate is so different and that the cummulative effect can be so dramatic.

Remeber.. those that DID use FP would have been using similar amounts or MORE than 3. Now people are being limited to three.. and people are still limited by how many FP/+ the company makes available. So while there may be more people taking a FP reservation... there is also offset of people being capped.
I'm not convinced this is true. They had to increase Fastpass capacity by adding it on to other attraction that didn't need it in order to facilitate the "3 per guest" quota. At Epcot, for example I'm guessing the average guests would use 2 or less Fastpasses per day. For Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom, it is probably 2 or 3 per day for the most aggressive user, while at MK the number is probably higher. I wouldn't be surprised if @lentesta has more solid estimates.
To make this play out.. you'd have something like this
Group 1 - knows what they are doing.. they use FP+ on marquee stuff
Group 2 - is semi-aware... they use FP+ on marquee where they can, and maybe get pushed to lesser attractions for some of their FP+s
Group 3 - is unaware... and is willing to allocate and USE FP+ on all the lesser attractions

Group 3 needs to be huge to make the impact so large around the park and not just isolated to the marquee attractions. Now, I know the amount of ignorant people is high... but are they actually cashing in all those FP+ as well?

Remember, it's not just FP+ allocation.. but it actually takes someone redeeming it to impact a line. If the smart people are using their FP+ on the main attractions... who are all these people bloating the JII line.. etc? Do we believe there are people redeeming all of their FP+s on the junk attractions?

I'm sure it happens.. but happens enough to boost the lines to the degree people are complaining about here? High capacity rides sustaining 30+ min waits during a 'low season'??

That's why I don't think you can attest this all to one factor (arrival of advance reservation) - there has to be some serious tinkering with how many are allocated, crowds, and maybe even ride capacity to make this perfect storm IMO. It's only observation at this point.. but I think the real answer is multifaceted.
You touched upon the education aspect that is going to plague Group 3 under Fastpass+, just like it did under Fastpass. There will be people that just assume this is a pay service, or are otherwise ignorant of it. Disney's option here is to try and sell these people on the advantage of Fastpass+, and then sell them on reservations like Living with the Land, Spaceship Earth and The Seas with Nemo and Friends.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
And I really think offsite guests are going to get hung out to dry.
The goal here is to replace knowledge with money. The uninformed were not getting the same advantages to the Fastpass system, despite still having access to it. What Disney is trying to do now is to help out those uninformed people with Fastpass+ at the cost of people that are trying to vacation at Disney World "on the cheap".
 

danv3

Well-Known Member
The #1 complaint of guests visiting Disney World or any theme park is waiting in line. Disney's Fastpass system was a competitive advantage. I have yet to see proof that Fastpass+ is anything but a giant step backwards and an elimination of this competitive advantage. The motivation behind it is to deceive guests.
THIS.
 

luv

Well-Known Member
Making informed FP+ selections requires familiarity with the parks. Simply using the My Disney Experience (MDE) website doesn't.

MDE offers a quick-pick option. A few have reported that the quick-pick option (so far) tends to pick the attractions most would want. For example, TSM over LMA; Soarin' over Maelstrom. The quick-pick option also seems to space picks out, giving guests time to travel between attractions. Giving guests time to shop. ;)

For those unfamiliar with WDW, the quick-pick option will act as a pseudo tour guide, adding structure into what otherwise would be an unstructured day.

Corporate Disney doesn't want you to have an unstructured day. They want your entire day to be planned, specifically planned at WDW.

An unplanned day means you might actually (wait for it) visit someone else's theme park. :)

Quoting Disney CEO Bob Iger:

"We have for years had in place products that are available only to hotel guests. And actually, one thing that I think Jay alluded to, didn't say specifically, is the My Magic Plus will definitely encourage people to stay more on-property than off-property. Jay was talking about essentially by being able to plan ahead, people will basically have more plans with us, and that will in effect discourage them from doing other things. I think it will also encourage them to stay more in our hotels. And so I think you have to look at that as an additional value to My Magic Plus."

That's what Disney wants.

In a perfect word, Disney would love to tell everyone exactly what they should ride. That's not nefarious; that level of control would simply assure load-balancing of all their attractions. Since Disney cannot realistically achieve that, they want to target their high-value guests (think Deluxe Resorts) in order to get those with the deepest pockets to open those pockets. Again, nothing nefarious. That's just what private businesses are supposed to do. Get their customers to buy more and, when resources are limited, get their best customers to spend the most.

There have been plenty of reports of incredibly long FP+ lines for some of WDW's most popular, low capacity attractions. Guests are getting FP+ for TSM and actually using it.

Right now, it looks like too many are getting FP+ for some attractions and Disney will have to correct that if it doesn't want a bunch of high-value guests upset that they spent 45 minutes in what was supposed to be the fast line.
ITA that there is nothing nefarious about encouraging people to book Disney hotels by giving them perks like FP when they do it. I think it will absolutely increase hotel occupancy. The clearest proof of this is how well it worked for Uni (although Uni's system is better.)

I think it could've been done for a lot less money than Disney spent, though. They waste ginormous sums on unnecessary things and cut cheap stuff like a few more dancers for the shows.
 

awoogala

Well-Known Member
ITA that there is nothing nefarious about encouraging people to book Disney hotels by giving them perks like FP when they do it. I think it will absolutely increase hotel occupancy. The clearest proof of this is how well it worked for Uni (although Uni's system is better.)

I think it could've been done for a lot less money than Disney spent, though. They waste ginormous sums on unnecessary things and cut cheap stuff like a few more dancers for the shows.
But they need to be clear about it. Right now it's "testing" in Disney hotels. If they are honest, I think it will do better. Disney hotel=fp+
Tell me. Uni is clear. Stay at our hotel= fotl. At least I know where I stand.
 

luv

Well-Known Member
But they need to be clear about it. Right now it's "testing" in Disney hotels. If they are honest, I think it will do better. Disney hotel=fp+
Tell me. Uni is clear. Stay at our hotel= fotl. At least I know where I stand.
Oh, I totally agree.

It's been a loooong time since I thought of Disney as a trustworthy company, though. I'm no longer shocked by shady behavior, half-truths or outright lies on their part.
 

Ray B

Member
I have been a loyal Disney customer for many, many years. I generally look past all the problems because as long as my DD is having a ball I am too. Most of the conversation about FP+ is doom and gloom. Hopefully it won't come to pass (no pun intended) but if the lines on non-prime rides get to be 30+ minutes on a regular basis my days at Disney are numbered.

I understand that they are a public company and need to continue to grow their profits. It just saddens me that it will likely be at my family's expense.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
While I understand that Corporate Disney's goal is to "encourage" on-site stays by forcing off-site, AP, and local day guests to stand in artificially inflated wait times, I think it will have the opposite effect and simply encourage those folks to go to Universal instead.

And I think this whole thing has the very real possibility of blowing up in their face. Because, if the on-site guests are limited to 3 FP+ per day, after/between their 3 reserved ride times, these on-site guests will have to deal with the ridiculously inflated wait times to get into the sweet spot of 10 attractions a day. I am not real good at the math thing, but by my best calculations, 3≠10.

At this point, I have to use one of my favorite quotes from one of Disney's most under appreciated movies (Meet The Robinsons), "I don't think this plan was thought out very well."
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
This thread is so very long and though I have read most of it, what has been the general consensus with regards to how many fast passes, not FP+, but the standard circa 2012 FP one party of say, 4, could have acquired in a given day within the MK for example? Assuming they all want to ride everything together and don't plan to park hop. I'm not saying I like the FP+ limit of 3 attractions, but is there time in the day for 6 standard FP's? If so, I can't see how the clock doesn't tick too fast for that to happen.
 

Weather_Lady

Well-Known Member
But they need to be clear about it. Right now it's "testing" in Disney hotels. If they are honest, I think it will do better. Disney hotel=fp+
Tell me. Uni is clear. Stay at our hotel= fotl. At least I know where I stand.
I think Disney is underestimating the negative effect of their failure to publish a clear, concise and permanent plan for FP+ -- who gets them, how many they get at each park, when they can be booked, etc. They've spent too much time testing and waffling and giving out vague or inconsistent information, and as a result, many guests are confused, scared and/or pessimistic about what's going to happen and what changes might take place when the full roll-out occurs. WDW has squandered the opportunity to get guests excited about the new technology (at least, guests who are savvy enough to read a press release crowing about how awesome FP+ is going to be and see how little information it's actually giving), and instead many guests are (and perhaps rightfully so) leery of it instead.

It's past time for Disney to 'fess up and tell guests exactly what is going to happen and how this is going to work. They are marketing NextGen to the people who like to be in the know, and to plan ahead, and then denying those people the information they need to formulate an effective plan for the post-rollout period. :arghh:
 

SunsetLament

Well-Known Member
And I think this whole thing has the very real possibility of blowing up in their face. Because, if the on-site guests are limited to 3 FP+ per day, after/between their 3 reserved ride times, these on-site guests will have to deal with the ridiculously inflated wait times to get into the sweet spot of 10 attractions a day. I am not real good at the math thing, but by my best calculations, 3≠10.
I would suggest that if the FP+ are limited only to on-site guests ... and those are limited to only 3 per day ... that the stand-by wait times will not be "ridiculously inflated" and instead will be fairly reasonable (just like they were before the entire FP system was implemented in the first place).
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
I would suggest that if the FP+ are limited only to on-site guests ... and those are limited to only 3 per day ... that the stand-by wait times will not be "ridiculously inflated" and instead will be fairly reasonable (just like they were before the entire FP system was implemented in the first place).
With over 36,000 hotel rooms and 2 parks with 6 or less rides, I don't see how there won't be queue gridlock. The problem with the parks isn't scheduling, it's carrying capacity. And MDE/MM+/FP+ does NOTHING for a parks capacity.

We are seeing it now, and not even all the on-site resorts are participating in the test.
 

Lord_Vader

Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
Switching to tiered FP+ now at Epcot. Two groups of attractions. Group one is TT, Soarin, Maelstrom, illuminations, Character spot. Everything else is Tier 2. You get one pick from tier 1 and two from teir 2.
I can confirm this, now expect at least HS & AK to follow suit soon. At least for now the other three parks are not tiered but don't think it will take long before the tiered attractions are added to them as well.
 

Lord_Vader

Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
As an update...

Now FP+ is allowing me to make only one or two selections and not the previously required three. At least it doesn't force me to select an attraction FP that I don't intend on keeping/using now.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
It really tells a tale about park/ride capacity when the implication of the tiered arrangement is that the average guest who even succeeds in getting a soarin or midway mania FP would be unable to get any other passes for the majority of the day because their return time would likely be in the late afternoon.
 
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