No fastpasses available today?

[Jeffxz]

I was able to change times for both of those attractions less than 12 hours before I was supposed to use them. Long lines at SSE, HM, JC, to name a few.

From my expierience over the last 10 days, seeing longer posted wait times, smaller numbers in the standby queue and much longer fast pass wait times, I suspect that the number of FP/FP+ were increased for TSM and TT/Soarin just to get a better guest satisfaction ratings on the new system.


I also noticed that FP+ availability is much harder to get on the EMH days at each respective park since it could be assumed that most on-site guests would be visiting that park on that day. I believe sampling the FP distribution time and wait times on these days would give a more accurate picture of how the system will work when rolled out to all guests.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Expect some changes to FP+ availability soon.

Want to go on Soarin'? Okay, but Test Track is now not available. Want Test Track then? No more Soarin'.

It will be one or the other and I expect the other parks will also be adapting this as well.

Agreed. It has to be this way for FP+ to achieve one of its main goals: re-distribute crowds from attractions with too much demand to those with underutilized demand. And at each park, but especially Epcot, DHS and DAK, the only way to do this is to "force" guests to pick which E-ticket they want to ride.

Given the harsh feedback that the attraction "tiers" received, its pretty clear we won't see that distinction again. Instead it will just be written into the algorithms of the software.

 

[NowInc]

Just got back from a weekend of a more exhaustive test of the new system (3rd time for me). A few notes regarding FP+:

First..and even tho its common sense, but no one has yet to confirm it that I've seen: Your magic band is linked to you. You can have more than ONE linked to you at a time (at least as of this past weekend). All of mine from previous trips worked just as well as my new one did. So hey..you can collect all the colors if you so choose (not a selling point..dont read it as such..lol). Keep in mind there IS a battery in there, so eventually they will not function And yes, you can wear one on each wrist

Second...I was able to move my FP+ selections around up until about an hour before they were up. Only issue was the Android app being exceptionally slow, as it has been for months.

Third...I people watched at the Hotel and saw a significantly fewer amount of people with technical difficulties with the new system. My last trip, which was only a month ago, there were many whos bands were linking properly, for one reason or another..this time I counted a total of two.

Fourth...It was said somewhere on here (maybe another thread) that if a fastpass line was empty, that CMs are to run empty vehicles to sort of "justify" the value of fastpass. Well...no. I did POTC twice yesterday at different times, the first one the standby listed was 20 minutes (timed it was actually 23..i was shocked at how accurate it was for once), the FP line had a steady stream of people going in as well. Later in the day, the standby time listed was 15 minutes (it was actually a walk on), the FP lane was empty, so instead of making standby people wait, they were splitting them towards the FP load in as well. So no empty boats were leaving for no reason. I observed several times over the course of the weekend that they were not "holding" standby people back at any point "just because". If there were no FP people, then standby just kept rolling through.

Fifth...myself and the group I was with all agree that if you want to speed up (and make it less annoying) the scanning of the bands, a different style of reader would be best. Instead of it being at a 90 degree angle, having it tilted so the scanner is aimed slightly downwards would make it more "fluent" as well as prevent anyone from having to contort in a weird way. That seemed to be a very common complaint I saw, and I agree with it.

Sixth...Not directly a FP+ issue, but the new credit card readers (with the new system)...are horrible at reading physical cards. Several swipes were required not only for credit cards, but for disney issued gift cards (Doing food and wine yielded SEVERAL testing opportunities of swiping). This just makes things take longer. From what I saw tho, the scanning of your magic band worked every time...take that as you wish.

and finally...Standby times were not far worse than the past. It was a bit crowded on Saturday, so there were lines...but where as many would automatically attribute this to the new system, I can say in my opinion it was more of a case of there just being a lot of people. The actual amusing side thing I noticed was that there were actually lines for fast pass (has been mentioned here before), but the four times I watched this happen (twice was at buzz), the line quickly went away. PAPER fast pass distribution times were actually better than usual (most of the return times were an hour or two later), which I thought was a bit interesting (and the fact that people were willing to get on a standby line for splash mountain of 45 minutes when the FP return was 60 minutes later is beyond my understanding).

From what I saw, there was little confusion on how the system works from anyone I saw using it. It was explained very thoroughly at check in, and most people (ie: the regular people who aren't forum reading in-the-know dis-nuts) saw it as a nice perk..which is how I assume Disney wants it.

 

[Weather_Lady]

Just got back from a weekend of a more exhaustive test of the new system (3rd time for me). A few notes regarding FP+:.

Thank you for your detailed feedback! Accounts like this help quell my nervousness over how FP+ is going to impact my family's vacation in a few months. (I am one of those formerly-frequent-Fastpass-users who does not really stand to benefit from the new system, but I'm hoping it won't hurt us overmuch.)

 

[flynnibus]

The standby line should have it's own dedicated ride vehicle area such that it never has to wait for FP/FP+ to merge (take a trip and imagine how much faster this would be). Family of 5 in FP+ wasting time to find their MagicBand and then scan it into the machine and you're in Standby... no problem, no wait, just keep moving since you've (Standby) got your own dedicated vehicle/ride area that doesn't depend on the volume or activities of FP+!
This would speed up Standby significantly. But then again... "It's not 'laid out' to accommodate that. Excuses, excuses...

The delay at the reader is not making your wait longer in standby. It's simply shifted. It's no different than if the person in front of you waits before they move forward in the line.. vs keeping step in step with the person in front of them.

If your are held up by the FP merge waiting for the reader... that extra 'time' would be recovered beyond the merge. What matters still if the FP merge ratio - not how quickly each FP person actually merges. It only becomes a factor if they are so slow, they can't match the actual rate they load the vehicles.. and ultimately they would work in standby's favor because they would have to reduce the FP:standby ratio to keep the queue full.

 

[Blueliner]

Just got back from a weekend of a more exhaustive test of the new system (3rd time for me). A few notes regarding FP+:

First..and even tho its common sense, but no one has yet to confirm it that I've seen: Your magic band is linked to you. You can have more than ONE linked to you at a time (at least as of this past weekend). All of mine from previous trips worked just as well as my new one did. So hey..you can collect all the colors if you so choose (not a selling point..dont read it as such..lol). Keep in mind there IS a battery in there, so eventually they will not function And yes, you can wear one on each wrist

Second...I was able to move my FP+ selections around up until about an hour before they were up. Only issue was the Android app being exceptionally slow, as it has been for months.

Third...I people watched at the Hotel and saw a significantly fewer amount of people with technical difficulties with the new system. My last trip, which was only a month ago, there were many whos bands were linking properly, for one reason or another..this time I counted a total of two.

Fourth...It was said somewhere on here (maybe another thread) that if a fastpass line was empty, that CMs are to run empty vehicles to sort of "justify" the value of fastpass. Well...no. I did POTC twice yesterday at different times, the first one the standby listed was 20 minutes (timed it was actually 23..i was shocked at how accurate it was for once), the FP line had a steady stream of people going in as well. Later in the day, the standby time listed was 15 minutes (it was actually a walk on), the FP lane was empty, so instead of making standby people wait, they were splitting them towards the FP load in as well. So no empty boats were leaving for no reason. I observed several times over the course of the weekend that they were not "holding" standby people back at any point "just because". If there were no FP people, then standby just kept rolling through.

Fifth...myself and the group I was with all agree that if you want to speed up (and make it less annoying) the scanning of the bands, a different style of reader would be best. Instead of it being at a 90 degree angle, having it tilted so the scanner is aimed slightly downwards would make it more "fluent" as well as prevent anyone from having to contort in a weird way. That seemed to be a very common complaint I saw, and I agree with it.

Sixth...Not directly a FP+ issue, but the new credit card readers (with the new system)...are horrible at reading physical cards. Several swipes were required not only for credit cards, but for disney issued gift cards (Doing food and wine yielded SEVERAL testing opportunities of swiping). This just makes things take longer. From what I saw tho, the scanning of your magic band worked every time...take that as you wish.

and finally...Standby times were not far worse than the past. It was a bit crowded on Saturday, so there were lines...but where as many would automatically attribute this to the new system, I can say in my opinion it was more of a case of there just being a lot of people. The actual amusing side thing I noticed was that there were actually lines for fast pass (has been mentioned here before), but the four times I watched this happen (twice was at buzz), the line quickly went away. PAPER fast pass distribution times were actually better than usual (most of the return times were an hour or two later), which I thought was a bit interesting (and the fact that people were willing to get on a standby line for splash mountain of 45 minutes when the FP return was 60 minutes later is beyond my understanding).

From what I saw, there was little confusion on how the system works from anyone I saw using it. It was explained very thoroughly at check in, and most people (ie: the regular people who aren't forum reading in-the-know dis-nuts) saw it as a nice perk..which is how I assume Disney wants it.

Thanks very much for posting this. Out of curiosity, did you get any information regarding the phasing out of regular Fastpass system? We are heading to WDW for November 26-30, and we have reserved Fastpass+ for each day. However, I was hoping to get KTTW cards and use the "regular" Fastpasses as well.

 

[NowInc]

Thanks very much for posting this. Out of curiosity, did you get any information regarding the phasing out of regular Fastpass system? We are heading to WDW for November 26-30, and we have reserved Fastpass+ for each day. However, I was hoping to get KTTW cards and use the "regular" Fastpasses as well.

I "double dipped" with paper fastpasses all weekend (un-necessary..but I figured I'd make sure it was still good)...

I think that you will have no problem doing the same in November. Even one of our group had an old park ticket that was technically expired (she renewed after the date, and we just linked a new ticket # to her magic band) was able to do paper fast passes. When she scanned her old pass it came up as "not able to be used"..but the CM gave her a one-day fast pass only pass to use instead. Judging by that, I would say they are keeping paper for a bit longer

 

[Blueliner]

I "double dipped" with paper fastpasses all weekend (un-necessary..but I figured I'd make sure it was still good)...

I think that you will have no problem doing the same in November. Even one of our group had an old park ticket that was technically expired (she renewed after the date, and we just linked a new ticket # to her magic band) was able to do paper fast passes. When she scanned her old pass it came up as "not able to be used"..but the CM gave her a one-day fast pass only pass to use instead. Judging by that, I would say they are keeping paper for a bit longer

I hope so! Thanks.

 

[Rob562]

2. On all popular attractions (like TSMM) - They shouldn't have to "merge" FP/FP+ with Standby. This is the reason for the 2nd helping of wait times. The standby line should have it's own dedicated ride vehicle area such that it never has to wait for FP/FP+ to merge (take a trip and imagine how much faster this would be). Family of 5 in FP+ wasting time to find their MagicBand and then scan it into the machine and you're in Standby... no problem, no wait, just keep moving since you've (Standby) got your own dedicated vehicle/ride area that doesn't depend on the volume or activities of FP+!
This would speed up Standby significantly. But then again... "It's not 'laid out' to accommodate that. Excuses, excuses...

The problem with this idea is that TSMM only loads two vehicles at once, I believe. Dedicating one load zone to Standby and one to Fastpass means that the ratio is 50/50, which is much lower than the actual ratio used in the FastPass system.

It would also require two groupers (though in your scenario it would eliminate the FP marge position, so I guess that's a wash), but it would make their jobs more difficult when it came to seating large groups. "Group of 4? OK, rows 1 and 2. Group of 8? Oh, ummm, can you wait and stand aside so other people behind you can get past you because I can't seat you until the next car that I have to load." Having one grouper have all 8 rows available to them makes their lives easier and the loading more efficient.

-Rob

 

[Jeffxz]

Just got back from a weekend of a more exhaustive test of the new system (3rd time for me). A few notes regarding FP+:

First..and even tho its common sense, but no one has yet to confirm it that I've seen: Your magic band is linked to you. You can have more than ONE linked to you at a time (at least as of this past weekend). All of mine from previous trips worked just as well as my new one did. So hey..you can collect all the colors if you so choose (not a selling point..dont read it as such..lol). Keep in mind there IS a battery in there, so eventually they will not function And yes, you can wear one on each wrist

I had the same expierience. I have tested multiple times, currently have 3 bands assigned to me and several cards. I checked and they all worked on my hotel door without me having to do anything special.

I believe the battery is only for the long range stuff, so touch to enter and touch to pay should always work.

Fourth...It was said somewhere on here (maybe another thread) that if a fastpass line was empty, that CMs are to run empty vehicles to sort of "justify" the value of fastpass. Well...no. I did POTC twice yesterday at different times, the first one the standby listed was 20 minutes (timed it was actually 23..i was shocked at how accurate it was for once), the FP line had a steady stream of people going in as well. Later in the day, the standby time listed was 15 minutes (it was actually a walk on), the FP lane was empty, so instead of making standby people wait, they were splitting them towards the FP load in as well. So no empty boats were leaving for no reason. I observed several times over the course of the weekend that they were not "holding" standby people back at any point "just because". If there were no FP people, then standby just kept rolling through.

Agreed. I tried to pay attention to this type of thing and saw no evidence that standby was held back when FP was empty.

Fifth...myself and the group I was with all agree that if you want to speed up (and make it less annoying) the scanning of the bands, a different style of reader would be best. Instead of it being at a 90 degree angle, having it tilted so the scanner is aimed slightly downwards would make it more "fluent" as well as prevent anyone from having to contort in a weird way. That seemed to be a very common complaint I saw, and I agree with it.

Sixth...Not directly a FP+ issue, but the new credit card readers (with the new system)...are horrible at reading physical cards. Several swipes were required not only for credit cards, but for disney issued gift cards (Doing food and wine yielded SEVERAL testing opportunities of swiping). This just makes things take longer. From what I saw tho, the scanning of your magic band worked every time...take that as you wish.

The placement of the reader is probably my biggest gripe with the bands themselves. It seems to me like whoever designed these didn't bother to physically test them at all.

• The park entry readers should have been designed so that the band could be read at the same time as placing your finger on the scanner. You shouldn't need to cross over then come back or use both arms for the finger scan.
• The payment terminals are awful at reading mag stripe cards, they need at least 2 hands to swipe due to someone holding it so it doesn't move (less a problem at counter service where they are mounted). Mag stripe facing away from the user is unintuitive.
• On the payment terminals, it is hard to see when the mickey head turns green. There should at least be a second indicator light that isn't hidden by your wrist. The keypad to enter your pin is a bit small and unresponsive also.
• You need to contort your wrist a bit to open the hotel doors, this isn't too bad though.
• I found opening the hotel parking gate to be impossible without removing the band. There is no way anyone can reach a hand out of a car window and place a band in the correct position to get this to work.

 

[doctornick]

1. Space Mountain Single Rider Queue - I've seen train after train after train leave with 1 seat open. If only they had an actual single-rider queue (like on Everest)... but yea "SM isn't 'laid out' like that )

There should be more single rider options and I agree that Space Mountain is a perfect candidate. Soarin' and ToT are other rides that I think should have it. Dinosaur and Kali could also use it, but I'm not sure they are busy enough to warrant adding. DLR has 8 rides with single rider and all of WDW only has 3 -- seems odd.

 

[Bairstow]

There should be more single rider options and I agree that Space Mountain is a perfect candidate. Soarin' and ToT are other rides that I think should have it. Dinosaur and Kali could also use it, but I'm not sure they are busy enough to warrant adding. DLR has 8 rides with single rider and all of WDW only has 3 -- seems odd.

Where would you put a Space Mountain single rider queue?
There's not room for three lanes of walking traffic at the bottom of the dome and if there was some kind of merge point further on people would try to push past the traffic in front of them to get to there (or at least claim to be doing so).

 

[doctornick]

Where would you put a Space Mountain single rider queue?
There's not room for three lanes of walking traffic at the bottom of the dome and if there was some kind of merge point further on people would try to push past the traffic in front of them to get to there (or at least claim to be doing so).

I am not familiar enough with the layout to suggest anything. Would it be possible to have single riders come in through the exit (that seems to happen in DL)?

I'm talking strickly on a capacity basis. Given the ride vehicle setup, it would benefit from single riders to maximize capacity and limit vehicles from running that are not totally filled. Furthermore, due to the higher thrill level/height restriction of the ride, it is one that families/groups often split up with only some people riding suggesting that single rider might be used relatively often if available.

 

[ford91exploder]

Thanks a lot for the answer. We will rent a car in Orlando, because we want to go shopping and go to Busch Gardens, Universal and Seaworld and that will be very difficult without a car. I want really to avoid Disney hotels, because I think it's very expensive US$137 per night in All Star Resorts. Orlando has a huge variety of hotels at this price with much more comfort and amenities. I'll follow your recommendation and arrive very early at the parks. I thinks it's my only hope to get a nice vacation.

You might try the Hilton across from Downtown Disney as it has on-property benefits

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re...Orlando_Lake_Buena_Vista-Orlando_Florida.html

 

[Tom Morrow]

Where would you put a Space Mountain single rider queue?
There's not room for three lanes of walking traffic at the bottom of the dome and if there was some kind of merge point further on people would try to push past the traffic in front of them to get to there (or at least claim to be doing so).

There's also nowhere to put it for Tower of Terror either due to the library pre-show rooms., or Kali because of the way the loading station and loading process is designed. In most cases, unless the attraction was designed with a single rider in mind, its not easy to implement or doesn't work out well. TSMM, Mission: Space, and I believe Soarin' originally had single rider lines, but they were discontinued because due to the nature of the boarding design, the line would build up fast and people would wait just as long as the standby line or more.

It works great on Test Track due to the vehicles having odd numbered rows, and Everest due to being an extremely fast-loading attraction. It is hit-or-miss with Rock 'n Roller Coaster.

 

[doctornick]

There's also nowhere to put it for Tower of Terror either due to the library pre-show rooms., or Kali because of the way the loading station and loading process is designed. In most cases, unless the attraction was designed with a single rider in mind, its not easy to implement or doesn't work out well. TSMM, Mission: Space, and I believe Soarin' originally had single rider lines, but they were discontinued because due to the nature of the boarding design, the line would build up fast and people would wait just as long as the standby line or more.

I can picture what you are saying about ToT. In terms of Kali though, how does Gizzly do it in DCA? Isn't it a similar loading setup?

If Soarin' has the capability, then it certainly should be used IMHO (and they use it in DCA). With the long waits involved for standby and the number of seats (such that it is not atypical for seats to be left empty), it would be a good place to implement the concept.

Also, Splash and the Matterhorn have single rider lines at DLR -- I'm wondering how those were retrofitted for it if ones at WDW like Space could not be.

 

[RandomPrincess]

I can picture what you are saying about ToT. In terms of Kali though, how does Gizzly do it in DCA? Isn't it a similar loading setup?

If Soarin' has the capability, then it certainly should be used IMHO (and they use it in DCA). With the long waits involved for standby and the number of seats (such that it is not atypical for seats to be left empty), it would be a good place to implement the concept.

Also, Splash and the Matterhorn have single rider lines at DLR -- I'm wondering how those were retrofitted for it if ones at WDW like Space could not be.

Matterhorn has an outside queue and load area which makes it easier to have single riders come through. Space has that long indoor queue.

 

[Rob562]

If Soarin' has the capability, then it certainly should be used IMHO (and they use it in DCA). With the long waits involved for standby and the number of seats (such that it is not atypical for seats to be left empty), it would be a good place to implement the concept.

Also, Splash and the Matterhorn have single rider lines at DLR -- I'm wondering how those were retrofitted for it if ones at WDW like Space could not be.

Soarin' had a Single Rider queue when it first opened in Florida. (That's what the far-left lane was for) But as someone else said, it wasn't helping efficiency much and actually got to be a very, very long wait, so they discontinued it.

First, singles would have to be fed to the A and B concourses separate from the regular line. And because you don't know exactly how many singles you'd need at the time of the merge CM, you'd have to send people to both sides as best as you can guess. Once in that line, the best case scenario for the singles line would be one single in each row. That's 9 people per cycle. More likely you'd be filling 3 or 4 seats with singles. Anyone left behind would then have to wait 5 minutes for the next cycle. Taking 3 or 4 or even 9 people every 5 mintues is horrible throughput on the Singles line.

A good grouper can fill in those empty seats and over time learns how to send various sized groups to the gates to minimize the chances of singles be left over.

Over at TSMM, they opened with a combo Singles and FastPass return line. At Merge they put the FP people into the regular line on the left side of the stairs, and the Singles to the right. I've read reports where groups of Singles would then sneak into the merged waiting line when the grouper wasn't watching so they could ride together. Eventually they eliminated the Singles line, and then finding they could put that right-hand side to better use by having the merge CM funnel groups of 2 into that line, which are much more in demand to have readily available to the grouper at the bottom of the stairs.

-Rob

 

[Tom Morrow]

^^ Yep. By comparison, Everest will almost always have at least one single per train but usually 3 or 4, and the trains leave approximately every minute. Single rider lines only really work for fast loading rides with a short load interval.

 

[GymLeaderPhil]

They could, theoretically, add single rider to Space Mountain. The bypass hallway post-merge on Omega could be utilized. Alpha would have to be reconfigured - either losing a switchback or constructing a wall between the post-merge and bypass where there's a railing currently. That or add a spur like the wheelchairs have on Omega. They could bring them in via standby which would require an extra merge CM or via the FastPass return line given a card that indicates a single rider.

It is possible and would definitely benefit the attraction since running empty seats does impact the weight of the vehicles and the overall dispatch ratios.