NFL 2013 Discussion Thread

[John]

I think the Ravens will make the playoffs, just as a wild card team. I think the Bengals take a step forward and win the division this year. They've had a couple of good drafts strung together to make me believe otherwise.

And I'd still take Ryan over Flacco.

I agree with you on The Bengals....I like Marvin Lewis a lot as a coach. Came from the Ravens as you might know.
Of course you would take Ryan over Flacco. But can you tell me why? Give me legitimate reasons. Tell me the tangibles that make you say that. Listen there is only one stat in football that really matters....wins. There is no other player in the HISTORY of the NFL who has won more games in their first five or six years. He is a stud in the post season and has a Super Bowl under his belt. Ryan? One playoff win. I know you will want to tell me about defenses....Atlanta didn't have a defense? Who's defense was better last year? The Ravens played hot when they needed to and had a case of divine intervention to help them win ( yea the win in Denver was a product of divine intervention). But Flacco and Ryan stats are very comparable....cept one. Wins and losses.

 

[flynnibus]

It's going to be a hard season for the Ravens being under the microscope..

first being the last year champs brings scrutiny.. and even more so Flacco's new deal brings him even more.

And with that, he's lost his #1 and #2 goto guys in the clutch. That is the big ?? for the offense.. where will with the clutch 3rd down come from?

The speed of Torry Smith needs a big target opposite him to be able to do it. Speed receivers need threats underneath to keep the safeties from just playing deep. That's why the combo of smith/Q/pitta was great.. and then throw in rice and it was a nightmare for coaches. But without those other threats, Smith could be greatly hindered. Dickson hasn't had the hands that Pitta has. And while I love JJones... he's no #2 reciever. Two speed guys doesn't work as well as speed+size.

While our O and D lines should be solid.. but the linebackers are still weak.. and the secondary will be a patch job. Sure it will be great to have Webb back (haven't heard a peep about him during training camp!) but without the ball hawk and the iron fist at safeties... and having to rely on guys like Bynes in LB.. we are REALLY exposed there. Our pass rush should be great.. but we stand to be ran all over like we were mid-season last year when all the linebackers were hurt.

It would be one thing to say.. 'well the offense will cover the defensive shortages..' but loosing Pitta and Q really hurt that. The one saving grace will be is if the O-line really has their stuff together from the beginning and Rice/Pierce can run. If that happens, and they can do it CONSISTENTLY (ahem.. 3rd down!!!) then that should give Smith some play action chances.

With the strength of our lines.. and with our QB/RB combo... we should be competitive regardless. But I really fear the media onslaught on Flacco when the numbers aren't there after his big contract.

In the last two years, virtually everyone with a big contract has gotten major scrutiny afterwards.

 

[PUSH]

I agree with you on The Bengals....I like Marvin Lewis a lot as a coach. Came from the Ravens as you might know.
Of course you would take Ryan over Flacco. But can you tell me why? Give me legitimate reasons. Tell me the tangibles that make you say that. Listen there is only one stat in football that really matters....wins. There is no other player in the HISTORY of the NFL who has won more games in their first five or six years. He is a stud in the post season and has a Super Bowl under his belt. Ryan? One playoff win. I know you will want to tell me about defenses....Atlanta didn't have a defense? Who's defense was better last year? The Ravens played hot when they needed to and had a case of divine intervention to help them win ( yea the win in Denver was a product of divine intervention). But Flacco and Ryan stats are very comparable....cept one. Wins and losses.

Wins don't come from one player, they come from the entire team. Ultimately, the Ravens have had better teams than the Falcons have since these two entered the league. Not just defenses, but offensive line, running game, returners, etc. Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl win... Dan Marino does not. Does that mean that Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino? I think 99% of people would say no.

Ryan has clutch factor. He showed that several times last season by taking his team down the field with little time left to win the game. Yes, Flacco showed it at the Denver game, but the coverage on the TD throw was some of the worst I've seen in a long time. Ryan's lowest QB rating was 87.7 (rookie season) and his highest was 99.1 (last season). I'm not including his sophomore season where he battled through injuries (80.9 rating). Flacco has never had any significant injuries (started every game of his career), and he has had one season with a 90+ QB rating (93.6), whereas Ryan has had three.

The one thing Flacco does have over Ryan is his arm strength. His arm strength is as good as anyone's in the league.

 

[John]

Wins don't come from one player, they come from the entire team. Ultimately, the Ravens have had better teams than the Falcons have since these two entered the league. Not just defenses, but offensive line, running game, returners, etc. Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl win... Dan Marino does not. Does that mean that Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino? I think 99% of people would say no.

Ryan has clutch factor. He showed that several times last season by taking his team down the field with little time left to win the game. Yes, Flacco showed it at the Denver game, but the coverage on the TD throw was some of the worst I've seen in a long time. Ryan's lowest QB rating was 87.7 (rookie season) and his highest was 99.1 (last season). I'm not including his sophomore season where he battled through injuries (80.9 rating). Flacco has never had any significant injuries (started every game of his career), and he has had one season with a 90+ QB rating (93.6), whereas Ryan has had three.

The one thing Flacco does have over Ryan is his arm strength. His arm strength is as good as anyone's in the league.

I would be in that 99%...that year the Ravens had one of the best defenses in NFL history. I agree with you in the notion that the QB is only one player. But as you know you can not win in this league without a franchise QB. How many players become pro bowlers under QB's like Payton Manning.....and Tom Brady. How many Super Bowls does NE win without Tom Brady? I would argue that team wise the Falcons were a better team then the Ravens. Last year if the Ravens play Denver at Denver ten times.....Broncos win 8 of them. IMO again the Ravens had everything going for them at the right time to win. There is no way they were the best team in 2012....just the better team that day. And in the end that is all that matters.

SO it comes down to basically your opinion is that Ryan is more "clutch" then Flacco. Which is a "intangible" . Clutch? 2012 playoffs....Flacco 11 TD's and NO.....I repeat NO INT's does that equal clutch to you? We will agree to disagree. You go ahead and take your boy Ryan.....only time will tell. I will take playoff wins and a SB win over potential any day.

All that said.....if at the day these two were on the draft board and I don't have the history or knowledge I have now.....and I was drafting.....I would have taken Ryan. I am just glad the Ravens got Flacco.

 

[PUSH]

I would be in that 99%...that year the Ravens had one of the best defenses in NFL history. I agree with you in the notion that the QB is only one player. But as you know you can not win in this league without a franchise QB. How many players become pro bowlers under QB's like Payton Manning.....and Tom Brady. How many Super Bowls does NE win without Tom Brady? I would argue that team wise the Falcons were a better team then the Ravens. Last year if the Ravens play Denver at Denver ten times.....Broncos win 8 of them. IMO again the Ravens had everything going for them at the right time to win. There is no way they were the best team in 2012....just the better team that day. And in the end that is all that matters.

SO it comes down to basically your opinion is that Ryan is more "clutch" then Flacco. Which is a "intangible" . Clutch? 2012 playoffs....Flacco 11 TD's and NO.....I repeat NO INT's does that equal clutch to you? We will agree to disagree. You go ahead and take your boy Ryan.....only time will tell. I will take playoff wins and a SB win over potential any day.

All that said.....if at the day these two were on the draft board and I don't have the history or knowledge I have now.....and I was drafting.....I would have taken Ryan. I am just glad the Ravens got Flacco.

That playoff run was clutch, but a different types of clutch. And IMO, that type of clutch comes from the team, not just the QB. Flacco couldn't have done that without the amazing plays from his receivers. Boldin had a great postseason, same with Pitta.

But I agree with the fact that you can't win a Super Bowl these days without "the Man". The Packers, Broncos, Patriots, etc would be nothing without their QBs. Sure they might make the playoffs, but a Super Bowl would be hard to come by. I do think Flacco is one of "the Men" of this league, and "the Man" doesn't always have to put up mind blowing numbers.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

The Ravens rule. Flacco is awesome. I don't know the names of half of the guys on the team now. I don't expect us to even make the playoffs this season. I have no confidence.

Now I'm going back to baseball stats. Seriously, the start of football is just a reminder that I'm starting college soon, and I don't need that reminder.

 

[PUSH]

My heart literally sank a bit tonight. I read that Packers' LT Bryan Bulaga could be out for the season with a possible torn ligament he suffered at Saturday's scrimmage. He was able to finish the scrimmage and reported a knee pain afterwards.

If this is true, the big experiment with our offensive line (flipping it) could be over before it really started. He's our best tackle, and we all know Rodgers needs better protection. Hoping it's not what it looks like, but I really don't want another season of 50+ sacks.

Side note: Bulaga missed a lot of time last season, as he suffered a season ending hip injury during the regular season.

 

[PUSH]

Some interesting news that isn't about injuries for once:

QB Vince Young has a workout with a team. Go on guess who. Got your guess? Okay, well I doubt it's right because he's working out with the Packers! The team that doesn't bring in many veterans, the team that doesn't overpay for anyone (especially backup QBs). I assume it's just going through the process since our backup QB competition is up in the air with no solid answer. I also wouldn't be surprised if they sign him just to practice the read option against. The Packers have been practicing against it with our backup QBs, but only at half speed.

Just was shocked when I read this, but it could be cause I'm a Packers fan.

 

[PUSH]

Reports have come in that Bryan Bulaga has indeed torn his ACL and will miss the season. Huge blow for the Packers, but I feel we have better depth this season.

 

[flynnibus]

...and Dickson goes down for the Ravens

I haven't heard much at all about the 49ers in camp this year...

 

[PUSH]

...and Dickson goes down for the Ravens

I haven't heard much at all about the 49ers in camp this year...

Patrick Willis fractured his hand, he's expected to take two weeks to recover after surgery. Also heard reports that he's going to be ready by the season opener (unfortunately). Chris Culliver (CB) is out for the season with injury (can't remember what). And we know Crabtree got injured in mini camp, he is supposed to be out for a while.

 

[flynnibus]

the training camp coverage I've been watching.. I've must have missed the 49ers days or something. The training camp tour NFL is doing is nice.. but it seems to fixate all their coverage on those teams alone.

 

[PUSH]

Yeah, I get bored of watching the same teams all the time, so I get most of my news from NFL.com. I'm tired of the Jets coverage with Sanchez/Smith.

 

[PUSH]

Vince Young is officially a Green Bay Packer. What just happened???

 

[PUSH]

Couple of small news updates:

- Jets WR, Santonio Holmes, says he expects to miss at least the first 4 regular season games with a lisfranc injury that he suffered last season. He reportedly can't put any weight on it yet.

- Former Cardinals and Chiefs WR, Steve Breaston, has signed a one year contract with the Saints.

 

[Hobnail Boot]

I'm reading mixed reports about Sean Weatherspoon and Julio Jones getting banged up today during our combined practice with the Bengals... I hope they'll be ok. Doesn't sound like anything major but any injury is a bad injury.

 

[PUSH]

I'm reading mixed reports about Sean Weatherspoon and Julio Jones getting banged up today during our combined practice with the Bengals... I hope they'll be ok. Doesn't sound like anything major but any injury is a bad injury.

Regarding Jones, I looked it up, and I've seen multiple reports about him being limited in practice. Mike Smith says it's "precautionary" and that the team was watching his workload closely. Doesn't sound like anything major. If it were something significant, I think we would be hearing more about it.

 

[Hobnail Boot]

Yeah, I read something about pre-practice cramping so it happened before anything really started. Still it was a scare. We can't afford to lose him.

 

[PUSH]

More injury news from the Packers (shouldn't be a shock):

WR Jordy Nelson underwent knee surgery and will miss the rest of training camp. Mike McCarthy says he's "hopeful" that Nelson will be ready for the season opener in San Francisco. McCarthy also noted he is hopeful about all the injuries.

Another big blow if he's not ready to go by the regular season.

 

[PUSH]

Update on Julio Jones:

Jones will miss the Falcons preseason opener.