News New security measures

[drew81]

Questions-

If they do add scanners who will be working those? Who will be determining which guests have to go through them or what is permissible? Will all guests go through them? Will the people verifying the info from the scanners be thoroughly trained and qualified? Will these be full body scanners used at large airports?

As we all know, much Disney info is leaked and if certain personal info is leaked about certain guests will Disney be potentially in trouble for privacy issues?

 

[note2001]

Yep, even the parking lots are a risk as people are lined up for trams. Just be aware of your surroundings, at the end of the day, it's all you can do.

Some of those people pushing to get on a tram or bus at the end of the day can be the most dangerous thing I've encountered at Disney.

Questions-

If they do add scanners who will be working those? Who will be determining which guests have to go through them or what is permissible? Will all guests go through them? Will the people verifying the info from the scanners be thoroughly trained and qualified? Will these be full body scanners used at large airports?

As we all know, much Disney info is leaked and if certain personal info is leaked about certain guests will Disney be potentially in trouble for privacy issues?

Highly doubt that they'll pony up for full body scanners. This is just the next level up in gate security we're looking at here. Some metal detector type gates we all walk though, a bypass for ECVs, strollers and wheel chairs. Maybe a bag scanner for the larger, packed to the point of busting bags. I believe the security check to visit Martha Stewart in jail would be more thorough.

TSA has to be as thorough as possible as the airlines are depending on them to keep the planes as safe as possible from their end.

 

[matt9112]

Then you are vindicated by default. Simply because some psychopaths in the world chose to attack the innocent in a new and abhorrent manner and as a result, everybody, not just Disney, had to adjust their security to match the new and evolving threat. Nothing more.

You do know that these measures don't do anything to make anyone safer from plot like threats? Common criminal maybe? All these measuresites do is make you feel better and Disney looks proactive....if somebody wants to do evil they will.

 

[matt9112]

Absolutely, I'm also involved with county and state emergency management as a volunteer and we do WMD/Natural Disaster drills about 4x year and I'd say you are being generous with your estimates in that the first thing that breaks down is communications especially between the public and public safety agencies as people overwhelm the front lines.

Even keeping lines open interagency is a challenge especially when you have senior managers who no longer can use cellphones and you ask them to compose their message on a IC-213 for transmission and no they CANNOT send a message to their families

What always happens in these drills/incidents is the 'Fog of War' descends and it takes superhuman efforts to overcome it.

Fog of war is almost as scary as the incident itself. I live in Watertown where the now infamous Boston marathon shootout occurred. That night law enforcement sent over 300 rounds all over the street (literary in houses aND such) and the one brother was run over by the other and still one escaped that night....it's like LEO never went to the range. Even had a friendly fire incident that night. Really disgusting.

 

[EOD K9]

I've seen these guys a few times they are usually outside of the park perimeter and use the 'Disney Security K9' vehicles.

I've trained with some of them. I'm aware of what they can do and am satisfied with them being around. I have seen some lousy handlers/K9 Teams, but these guys I trust.

 

[EOD K9]

What do you call TSA then for not knowing the difference from a claw grabber and a real gun?

Proof of TSA not knowing the difference: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...y-buzz-lightyear-toy_564dd5d4e4b08c74b73471f5

On another note, we have gotten intel bulletins that officers from other agencies have found functional .22 caliber rifles disguised as nerf/toy guns. You'd be surprised at what people can turn a toy into. I keep an airsoft pistol in my cruiser with me to prove a point to people who say that its easy to spot a toy gun. It looks real as anything. I'd post a pic but I don't know if that's something the mods will allow.

 

[matt9112]

Win/Win:
Safer
and if you don't like it, don't go = less crowds.

Safe and Sound.

You have zero proof it's safer....the TSA for example has failed testing about 90% of the time meaning something was snuck by screening in 90% of random testing. I will say Disney is likely a step above the TSA but the point still stands....all these things do is cater to your emotional feelings and others like you and has no basis for actually being safe or less safe.

 

[MotherOfBirds]

The primary function of these changes is security theater. They exist to make guests feel safer and make Disney feel like they have their posteriors covered. They're just casting a net with sightly smaller holes.

 

[matt9112]

On another note, we have gotten intel bulletins that officers from other agencies have found functional .22 caliber rifles disguised as nerf/toy guns. You'd be surprised at what people can turn a toy into. I keep an airsoft pistol in my cruiser with me to prove a point to people who say that its easy to spot a toy gun. It looks real as anything. I'd post a pic but I don't know if that's something the mods will allow.

Boils down to intent if I'm holding a glock 19 or a bb gun Is irelevant if I aim at you I am a threat but to that end I don't think banning toy guns ect is the way to go even if it makes your job slightly safer. It's a dangerous job and I applaud you but we can't carve out exceptions to freedom and liberty in the name of safety...less there's nothing left worth serving.

 

[EOD K9]

Boils down to intent if I'm holding a glock 19 or a bb gun Is irelevant if I aim at you I am a threat but to that end I don't think banning toy guns ect is the way to go even if it makes your job slightly safer. It's a dangerous job and I applaud you but we can't carve out exceptions to freedom and liberty in the name of safety...less there's nothing left worth serving.

I wasn't going with the banning of toys in the park, just commenting on how real some of them look and what can be done with them.

 

[rucifee]

Some of those people pushing to get on a tram or bus at the end of the day can be the most dangerous thing I've encountered at Disney.

You're not kiddin...some of them are downright mean.

 

[joup7]

I can speak from experience working at various events with walk through metal detectors, or even metal wands. No matter how many signs you have and how many times you say "please take all metal objects out of your pockets", a large amount of people don't listen, set the thing off, and the security guard has to take more time to check the person carefully at the point it went off. Keys, phones, cigarette containers, coins. With the large amount of first-time guests and those with metal in their body via hip replacements, knee replacements, and the like that come to Disney, the line is going to be a lot slower in practice than in theory.

I'm on board with the metal detection, it'll make things safer. But they need to at least double if not triple their security check through staff at the entrances or we will see extremely long waits to get through security.

 

[KeithVH]

So now it seems there a boatload of acceptance. That stronger precautions are necessary. That the greatest threat vector is the lone wolf/crazed individual who plans to walk up and through the front gate. It would seem to me existing measures are enough to counter that approach, don't you think?

No one wants to mention the T word here. Is that by choice? What is the probability of a more planned and coordinated attack? Does anyone worry about this? Or are the chances so small that it's not really given that much weight? There are so many ways to get into the parks (yes, even with the wedge barriers).

My apologies if this seems trollish. Maybe I read too much Clancy and have a wild imagination thinking of something that could never happen . . .

 

[mickeysaver]

I haven't read all of this. I have a thought on the toy gun issue. While I am not sure that Disney actually has any issue with selling toy guns, I do think that the TSA recently not allowing a child to take a Buzz Lightyear toy gun back home, which was this kids' favorite toy of the trip, might have prompted this action. The toy looked NOTHING like a real gun, but the TSA still refused to let it go through.

As to the change in procedure, I am ok with it, however, I do think they are going to need more bag check stations. I think it's going to be really difficult to process through all of those strollers, wheelchairs, and mobility scooters. I can see this causing some back up. I hope I am wrong.

 

[TeriofTerror]

Can any security measures eliminate 100% of threats? No. But if security upgrades can take that percentage from, say, 95% to 97%, that's a good thing, isn't it? I'd think that from Disney's perspective, security upgrades are far less expensive than the fallout of a major incident would be.
And not to get too tinfoil-y, but it's at least conceivable that Disney is aware of some threats that they haven't made public...

 

[lazyboy97o]

Can any security measures eliminate 100% of threats? No. But if security upgrades can take that percentage from, say, 95% to 97%, that's a good thing, isn't it? I'd think that from Disney's perspective, security upgrades are far less expensive than the fallout of a major incident would be.
And not to get too tinfoil-y, but it's at least conceivable that Disney is aware of some threats that they haven't made public...

But there is no elimination. The chances will change from 0% to 0% but many will just delude themselves into thinking that being constantly treated as criminals is acceptable. That fear of ourselves and others is the way to live. At best, these measures only move where an attack occurs but there is no reason that an attack inside a park is inherently worse than one in a hotel or shopping center.

 

[TeriofTerror]

But there is no elimination. The chances will change from 0% to 0% but many will just delude themselves into thinking that being constantly treated as criminals is acceptable. That fear of ourselves and others is the way to live. At best, these measures only move where an attack occurs but there is no reason that an attack inside a park is inherently worse than one in a hotel or shopping center.

I'll bet it matters a whole lot to Disney if it happens inside one of their parks or at some random mall.
The security measures are an inconvenience, but I don't feel as though I'm being treated like a criminal. And I certainly don't think there's a zero percent chance of a gun-related tragedy occurring in a theme park.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'll bet it matters a whole lot to Disney if it happens inside one of their parks or at some random mall.
The security measures are an inconvenience, but I don't feel as though I'm being treated like a criminal. And I certainly don't think there's a zero percent chance of a gun-related tragedy occurring in a theme park.

I'm not talking about some random mall, I'm talking about Disney Springs and Downtown Disney. Why is that not someplace worth "protecting"? The headline will still be "Attack at Disney World/Disneyland."

 

[Amused to Death]

...a bypass for ECVs, strollers and wheel chairs.

Sounds perfectly safe!

 

[TeriofTerror]

I'm not talking about some random mall, I'm talking about Disney Springs and Downtown Disney. Why is that not someplace worth "protecting"? The headline will still be "Attack at Disney World/Disneyland."

I agree, and I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see security beefed up there, as well.