DHS New Roundup Rodeo BBQ sit-down restaurant coming to TSL

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Just so we're clear... your contention is that TSL was constructed with all the care, artistry, and skill of Main Street USA, and the haters are just too biased to see it?

You know, it is possible to acknowledge that Disney has made mistakes without forfeiting the position that the parks are generally well run. I can think they're very poorly run while also thinking MMRR is a near masterpiece, SWL and RotR are very good additions (if somewhat overrated), the Star Tours redo was excellent, Rat is fun despite some issues, C&H is unfairly lambasted, AK is a truly fantastic park that hasn't taken many major missteps, etc.
I have my criticisms, too. Some bother me greatly, others not so much because I realize the realities of a theme park, and sacrifices need to be made for practicality's sake. The real Frontier didn't have trash cans every 30 feet. But I overlook it in Frontierland because of the practicality.

Size scales are regularly broken throughout all the theme parks and have been from the beginning. Sometimes the trade-off in scales are handled well, like with the Main Street facade. Some are a train wreck, such as the entirety of space in front of and including Belle's castle. You want to criticize that? I'm right there behind you.

But this criticism of TSL's lack of scale gets thrown around without recognition of the very fact, and it's a fact-fact, that Andy's toys are not to scale in the movie. Most children's toys aren't in real life. And when that gets pointed out, then out gets trotted out the point that's been made several times already when TSL first opened, that the M&G is out of scale. But that's like the trash cans in Frontierland, or a fully human sized Mickey M&G, it has to break the convention because of the practicality.

I get it. You hate it. You've made yourself known on this several times, because every time TSL is brought up, the ol' tired "it's out of scale!!" gets brought up again. We've had this 'discussion' before.

I don't hate it. I hate the lack of room in TSL, especially for the Lunch Box dining area being ridiculously small, and the new addition also ridiculously small.

But I am not dazed by the trash cans in the land. What boy has toy trash cans for his toys in his backyard?

It's a convention. Like the suspension of belief in watching Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
 

Movielover

Well-Known Member
An off the shelf vekoma thing that has an insane wait due to lack of options.
Neither Slinky or Seven Dwarfs are "off the shelf". Both are custom made coasters for the place they are in, with custom made cars. Yes they are "just rollercoasters" but they were designed, manufactured, and built for those exact locations. Barnstormer (even though it uses custom trains) is a off the shelf coaster from Vekoma.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
I have my criticisms, too. Some bother me greatly, others not so much because I realize the realities of a theme park, and sacrifices need to be made for practicality's sake. The real Frontier didn't have trash cans every 30 feet. But I overlook it in Frontierland because of the practicality.

Size scales are regularly broken throughout all the theme parks and have been from the beginning. Sometimes the trade-off in scales are handled well, like with the Main Street facade. Some are a train wreck, such as the entirety of space in front of and including Belle's castle. You want to criticize that? I'm right there behind you.

But this criticism of TSL's lack of scale gets thrown around without recognition of the very fact, and it's a fact-fact, that Andy's toys are not to scale in the movie. Most children's toys aren't in real life. And when that gets pointed out, then out gets trotted out the point that's been made several times already when TSL first opened, that the M&G is out of scale. But that's like the trash cans in Frontierland, or a fully human sized Mickey M&G, it has to break the convention because of the practicality.

I get it. You hate it. You've made yourself known on this several times, because every time TSL is brought up, the ol' tired "it's out of scale!!" gets brought up again. We've had this 'discussion' before.

I don't hate it. I hate the lack of room in TSL, especially for the Lunch Box dining area being ridiculously small, and the new addition also ridiculously small.

But I am not dazed by the trash cans in the land. What boy has toy trash cans for his toys in his backyard?

It's a convention. Like the suspension of belief in watching Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
Hey dude - your "fact-facts" are wrong. Do you not know how scale works?

Toys, generally, just as a thing, do not operate on a consistent scale, sure. Two random dolls made by different companies may not be the same height. But once they're made, they're gonna stay the same height respectively. It's dumb that I even have to say that.

The Toy Story toys absolutely play by these rules. Buzz isn't suddenly taller than Woody in Toy Story 2 and that's why. Object permanence exists and the Toy Story characters were designed with it in mind. They're meant to be certain sizes relative to each other, and Disney possesses all the information in the world relevant to making design choices that consider that.

You speak as though the walkaround characters are the only problem here, and they clearly aren't. The Meet and Greet issue is but one example of the scale problems in Toy Story Land. Why is the Jessie figure so much bigger than Rex? Why is Rex suddenly small enough to stand on top of a Jenga Tower?

The answer, truly and simply, is that Disney had molds of these characters available from other Toy Story Lands around the world and decided to reuse them, regardless of their incorrect scale relative to each other. Despite the whole concept of this land being built around creating the unique perception of guests being shrunk to a precise, particular scale, which Disney chose and publicized. It would have been plenty easy, if a little more expensive, to get specific and correct about how big these things should be to sell the illusion to the guest.

Forced Perspective is an option where applicable, but it's meant to bend the rules rather than break them. The Beast's Castle breaks them. Rex on a Jenga Tower - which should be much smaller than him - breaks them. Cinderella Castle's scale shrinks as it gets taller in an attempt to conjur an illusion for guests. It's an artful manipulation of scale, not an blatant disregard for it. Toy Story Land disregards scale and makes no apologies for it. And, unfortunately, when you shatter your own illusion like that it subconsciously encourages the audience to start looking for other places where the cracks are forming.

Maybe the Meet and Greet situation would get a pass if everything else in the land were in scale, like Mickey does walking around the parks. Or maybe they should have built an indoor (air conditioned?) space where they can gradually adjust the scale to bring you to those character's sizes, as has been done in the parks before. Or maybe they could have built the whole land with guests being Buzz-height instead of Green Army Man height. Or maybe they should have just built the land mostly to accurate scale. All perfectly valid and reasonable solutions that they didn't pick because they were willing to settle for wildly inconsistent scale in a land conceived around a scale-based illusion.

It's fine if it doesn't bother you that they got this wrong. But I have no idea why you insist on giving them credit for work they didn't do. Especially when it was literally them taking the cheap way out on a multi-billion dollar franchise. And still managing to blow hundreds of millions of dollars on it in the process.

PS: Your Trash Can strawman doesn't hold up, we all know the deal there - and mentioning it four times yourself to try to make it look like a point other people were complaining about isn't going to work.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Neither Slinky or Seven Dwarfs are "off the shelf". Both are custom made coasters for the place they are in, with custom made cars. Yes they are "just rollercoasters" but they were designed, manufactured, and built for those exact locations. Barnstormer (even though it uses custom trains) is a off the shelf coaster from Vekoma.
Meh…that’s the result.

For the most non-discerning audience this side of six flags. It is what it is…and that’s what it is.

You’re giving far too much credit for a computer fabricated design.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
But this criticism of TSL's lack of scale gets thrown around without recognition of the very fact, and it's a fact-fact, that Andy's toys are not to scale in the movie. Most children's toys aren't in real life.
When do any of Andy’s toys change size in any of the movies or shorts? What toys ever sold are capable of changing their size?
 

Movielover

Well-Known Member
Meh…that’s the result.

For the most non-discerning audience this side of six flags. It is what it is…and that’s what it is.

You’re giving far too much credit for a computer fabricated design.
No, I'm just correcting your obvious error. Is Splash Mountain a off the shelf ride? That's using a pre designed ride system found at other parks. By your interpretation of "off the shelf" then Splash, Small World, heck even Big Thunder is a off the shelf ride since the layout was designed for Disneyland. Just because you don't think highly of a ride doesn't mean you can misuse a word to make it fit your incessant complaining.

off.png
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
No, I'm just correcting your obvious error. Is Splash Mountain a off the shelf ride? That's using a pre designed ride system found at other parks. By your interpretation of "off the shelf" then Splash, Small World, heck even Big Thunder is a off the shelf ride since the layout was designed for Disneyland. Just because you don't think highly of a ride doesn't mean you can misuse a word to make it fit your incessant complaining.

View attachment 640495
You’re absolutely right…semantics foul on my part

“low intensity junior/medium coaster built with standard elements”

Does that work better?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
"Lazy" might suffice.
…guilty as charged.

Oh…did you mean WDI? Yeah…them too. 🤪

To be fair…mine train has a really nice AA room and that ride does what it should: a C/D ticket in a needed spot. It’s just not treated that was due to lack of offerings. Get ready for a 210 standby on tron 🙄

Slinky…on the other hand…like every DHS ride made after 2009…is all fluff. Shouldn’t be that easy to get praise when sea worlds rides all put you to shame.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
…guilty as charged.

Oh…did you mean WDI? Yeah…them too. 🤪

To be fair…mine train has a really nice AA room and that ride does what it should: a C/D ticket in a needed spot. It’s just not treated that was due to lack of offerings. Get ready for a 210 standby on tron 🙄

Slinky…on the other hand…like every DHS ride made after 2009…is all fluff. Shouldn’t be that easy to get praise when sea worlds rides all put you to shame.
Yeah, I thought we were talking about Slinky 😅
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Oh I hate Bob, both of them. I never want to see them anywhere near Disney. Bring back Eisner is the camp I'm in thank you very much.

I just don't get offended by theme park attractions like you do.
…you know…I find comfort in those that recognize that EVEN THOUGH Eisner needed to go…his record compared to the BOBs is no real comparison at all.
👍🏻

I’m not offended over what they build - I do get slightly offended that in the swamp people are so GD immature that heap praise on them to the point that they feel they don’t need more/better

The Walt Disney company…like any company…is a “dog”

It will eat whatever you feed it. Including if you make it work for attention a little. 🐶
 

Movielover

Well-Known Member
…you know…I find comfort in those that recognize that EVEN THOUGH Eisner needed to go…his record compared to the BOBs is no real comparison at all.
👍🏻
I honestly don't think Eisner NEEDED to go. What he needed was his close circle of trusted people to bounce the ideas off of and to say no to him. After the failure of Paris and the issues with Katzenberg Eisner just second guessed himself too much and became scared to try anything risky. But you can't deny pre schism that Eisner had a creative edge to him that is so clearly lacking in the Bobs. He just needed to get his mojo back.

I still see the creative and fun the company does despite the fact that its run by horrible, non-imaginative people.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I honestly don't think Eisner NEEDED to go. What he needed was his close circle of trusted people to bounce the ideas off of and to say no to him. After the failure of Paris and the issues with Katzenberg Eisner just second guessed himself too much and became scared to try anything risky. But you can't deny pre schism that Eisner had a creative edge to him that is so clearly lacking in the Bobs. He just needed to get his mojo back.

I still see the creative and fun the company does despite the fact that its run by horrible, non-imaginative people.
Nah…he needed to go. I think he has even sorta hinted at that in interviews since.

The “era” was rolling over on him…from Wall Street, to commercial products, to media…

He couldn’t really cede power in a Management structure that needed it.

However, they are even more of an oligarchy now with two non-creatives (one with business skill…one with ZERO) since!

Roy shoulda stopped chain smoking…things would be much better now.☹️
 

Movielover

Well-Known Member
He couldn’t really cede power in a Management structure that needed it.

However, they are even more of an oligarchy now with two non-creatives (one with business skill…one with ZERO) since!

And there's the problem we are at now. too much middle management bloat that has no power answering to the bald headed wooden log sitting on the throne.

I miss when Eisner would introduce the movie of the week...

Is it too much to hope that Elon buys Disney too? haha
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
And there's the problem we are at now. too much middle management bloat that has no power answering to the bald headed wooden log sitting on the throne.

I miss when Eisner would introduce the movie of the week...

Is it too much to hope that Elon buys Disney too? haha
It’s Wall Street gambling and the quarterly demand that really put Disney in a bind.

They used to be a great financial play because of their stability…you could count on return in good times and bad. That allows patience/creativity.

Now that isn’t the case. It breeds bad decisions and product quality decline.

“The market is always right”…except when it’s 100% dead wrong.
 

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