New Passholder Best Rate Program

[Jekyll Baker]

Just saw this topic on another site/forum and didn't know if anyone here knew about it yet.

This is from the Passholder page:

Planning a vacation in a few months? Then it's time to try our Passholder Best Rate Program! Now Passholders booking a Disney Resort room online under the Passholder Best Rate Program at disneyworld.com/passholders can rest easy knowing they have received our best room rate offered to the general public* at that time for the room and nights booked. And, if we subsequently reduce our room rate to the general public for the same room and nights you booked online under this Program, we will automatically reduce your room rate to match that lower rate.

Rooms must be booked at least 120 days in advance and, unlike our normal cancellation policy, a non-refundable deposit of 1-night's room charge and tax must be paid at the time of booking. Currently this program is only available for arrivals through 12/19/05. The number of rooms and nights available for this Program is limited and rooms are not available every night. This Program is subject to change or discontinuance at any time and without notice.

* Does not include group rates, auction rates or rates conditioned on group/club memberships or other specified eligibility requirements.



It's access through the passholder section of disneyworld.com, and let's you book through what looks like the regular booking engine. I looked at it briefly, but since AP rates for 120 days away haven't really been announced, it gives rack rates. So you'd be leaving it up to Disney what price you end up paying.

I dunno 'bout 'dis. What ya'll think?

 

[lebeau]

You really aren't getting any of this, are you... :brick: If it affects me personally, then it's unfair to me, isn't it?

While not wanting to immerse myself in the debate (as I have no AP and thus no vested interest) I have to agree with mousermerf as far as the fair/unfair aspect of this. Just because it affects you personally, that doesn't make it unfair. It just makes it bad for you - which I sympathize. Unfair would be if they locked in one price and then changed it when you got there.

 

[mousermerf]

You folks are also assuming all APs have travel plans like yourself. For many going to WDW, they are going during a predetermined period, even if its hurricane season

For example, my sister just called me the other day and proposed a trip to the North East to see my grandfather and other relatives. Due to our schedules, it would only be possible during 1 week in early August. If i signed up for a similiar plan with a airline i'd be happy. I'm going anyways, and there's a discount, more power to them.

As far as refering to yourself as "Disney most loyal fan" then saying you wont go unless its cheaper than rack rate - doesn't that contradict itself? I understand wanting a discount for yourself, as everyone does. However, not being offered one is not some grave offense.

Yes, its a Disney fan board and people will "discuss" most anything, but there are people who don't agree with you as well. There are people out there who if offered a discount will be offended, because they've got more than enough money and see it as some sort of status symbol to spend it lavishly.

Your point of view is "your" point of view - please don't assume everyone shares it, needs to share it, or is misguided/crazy for not sharing it.

 

[PeeplMoovr]

As JP will probably tell you they listen to guests long before cast members. I plan on sending guest communications an e-mail concerning this new program and I encourage every one else that is not too thrilled about this plan to do the same. My travel habits are exactly like yours and if this policy makes it past the test phase my travel plans will change much in the same way you purposed.

Thanks Master Yoda. In tribute to your name:
Write a letter to Disney, I just did.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Writing a letter to Disney when I get home I will!!!! Good relations with Guest Services have I and many good exchanges have happened in the past. See reason and good business sense hopefully they will!!! Belle

 

[wannabeBelle]

You folks are also assuming all APs have travel plans like yourself. For many going to WDW, they are going during a predetermined period, even if its hurricane season

For example, my sister just called me the other day and proposed a trip to the North East to see my grandfather and other relatives. Due to our schedules, it would only be possible during 1 week in early August. If i signed up for a similiar plan with a airline i'd be happy. I'm going anyways, and there's a discount, more power to them.

As far as refering to yourself as "Disney most loyal fan" then saying you wont go unless its cheaper than rack rate - doesn't that contradict itself? I understand wanting a discount for yourself, as everyone does. However, not being offered one is not some grave offense.

Yes, its a Disney fan board and people will "discuss" most anything, but there are people who don't agree with you as well. There are people out there who if offered a discount will be offended, because they've got more than enough money and see it as some sort of status symbol to spend it lavishly.

Your point of view is "your" point of view - please don't assume everyone shares it, needs to share it, or is misguided/crazy for not sharing it.

Hi Mousemerf, You keep saying that this is not unfair. I am not disagreeing with you on that point. I am saying that it makes good business sense to offer discounts to your most loyal customers so they do keep coming back. If I needed to go to a family gathering and the airfare was a certain price, I would have to evaluate the decision to go on could I afford the price? If not, I cant go. If it is a fair price, I may go for the gathering. If I found out I could get a REALLY great deal, I may go a few times in a year to visit the relatives rather than the once or not at all. Is that fair to the airline that I dont have a ton of money? No probably not. Is it fair to me either? No probably not. Is that the way it is? Yes. Disney is a vacation destination. Granted it is probably one of the more poular in the world, but it by no means is the only one out there. They are competing for tourist dollars as surely as any place else is. We are pretty unique in that we are a group of people that Disney can count on to come to the parks in the good times and in bad. I was there twice in 2001 (Once after 9/11) Four times in 2002 and 2003, 6 times in 2004 and currently at trip #3 up and coming for 2005!! Is it fair or unfair for Disney to not give discounts for AP holders? I agree with you it is not a question of that. Is it a marketing strategy to keep us from spending our vacation money elsewhere? Yes and a very good one at that. I for one hopes that Disney understands this and considers this with all due gravity when making the final determination as to releasing discounts. Belle

 

[slappy magoo]

Yeah, I gotta agree that the term "unfair" is probably being misused. The fact remains that if you're willing to go to WDW when the discounts are being offered, you'd get the discount. You're just not going when the discounts are offered. You might as well say that everything else in your life is "unfair" because in a perfect world, you'd be able to go to WDW whenever you'd want so you could take advantage of whatever offer they have.

For instance, because for the first time, I'm using DVC points, and because I have an annual pass, I can't take advantage of the promotion they're running where guests eat for free, even though I'm going to be at WDW during the promotion. In fact, this promotion might make the parks more crowded, so I'll have to deal with more jerks. :lol: I can complain that WDW is not being fair, but how can I? I don't fall into the criterion necessary to get the deal. Just like you might not fall into the criterion necessary to get an AP discount.

 

[KaliSplash]

Tigger1968, is it possible there is no discount rate for your dates because of the proximity of Columbus Day? I know colleges around here take fall break then and maybe Disney doesn't need extra bookings for the time period.

I agree with Mousemerf, it's not that it's unfair. That would be if they charged you more and me less under identical circumstances.

But I do agree with the prevailing opinion in this thread, this is a bad idea for us.

Asking us to pony up non-refundable money in advance for what might be a discount when we actually visit is a terrible idea from a marketing to us point of view. But it will cut down on cancelations from their point of view and can result in more revenue from higher prices, too.

But then, eliminating the Early Entry a few years ago because 'we' wanted more characters at our hotel was a really bad marketing idea to us. It was simply a way to save money (my not opening the park so early), yet tell us we were getting what we wanted with extra characters in the hotel lobby. That one turned out to be an extraordinarily bad idea. period. Unless you had children just the right age that the only reason they went to WDW was to have their picture made with as many characters as possible. I realize that is the priority for many families for a few years, but the overwhelming majority of folks just want to get to the parks.

This is simply a marketing ploy to increase revenue while telling us we (could) get a better deal.

But then, I also think Fastpass is a bad idea for us which is actually designed to get us to spend more times in the shops and restaurants while we wait for ride times. I have seen this view espoused in the Wall Street Journal. There is no question it does cut down on wait times for the one ride you have a fast pass for, but etc. (We don't need to get into this idea here).

My point is, it's all about the money. Reservations are up this year, the economy is better and Disney thinks they can cut down on benefits to folks like us and make more money to boot.

It's always about the money! (not the magic)

 

[shoppingnut]

This is by far a very bad decision on Disney's part when they are trying to keep everyone "on property" so that they spend every since vacation dollar in WDW. I for one will not use the on line reservation systems because it has many flaws in it, (1) if I decide to add someone to my room why should I be charged for that change when it is more revenue brought to them; (2) if I decide to upgrade my hotel because the rates drop and now I can afford the WL should I be penalized for spending more a few more $$ at a higher resort; (3) why should I book non-refundable at a general rate and HOPE that a discount comes along, when I can book a hotel like the Hilton in LBV that has many more services (and better cancellation policy) than the value or moderates, I could then use Disney's bus service if I wanted to that drops me off at the marketplace and walk to the hotel or rent a car and drive to the parks, since I park for free anyway w/the AP. And, at least at the Hilton I can get points for staying there to use for a free vacation elsewhere.

Someone obviously hasn't really thought this through entirely. By giving an AP rate WDW has ensured that it will have a base customer with the AP holder's that they can count on for business. This isn't true for the average vacationer, because they may make this trip only once or twice in a lifetime. It is wrong to bite the hand that has fed you during your lean times and also a big marketing mistake.

 

[drp4video]

Thank you for answering JPV. I am a single mom, but not with five kids (whew, not that I don't love kids, but...). I was wondering as I have a daughter and we bring some of her friends when we go. I would just have to limit the number.

Of course I still could not book the best rate way as we don't always know who is going until the last minute, and if I add or change, I would have to pay the $50.

I know I am not going to renew my daughter's AP in August, but I still don't know about mine. I will have to think on this.

 

[wannabeBelle]

OK folks some of the discounts have hit the system!!!! I ran a moderate resort for Oct 18th-22nd. The regular room rate I got for a standard view room was $664.56 with no discount, $486.16 with the Passholder Best Rate discount. I also ran a waterview for the same dates and got $735.92 without a discount and $557.52 with the Passholder Best Rate discount. Near as I can tell this would represent a savings of 26-28% give or take ( If anyone is better at Math than me please double check me!!!) Please remember some of our concerns over non refundable deposits and change fees stil have not been addressed but it is nice to see that Disney seems inclined to at least let us book at a discount to begin with!!! Belle

 

[AEfx]

Wow, this thread got crazy, LOL.

For many AP holders outside of the Orlando area, I believe that if the "worst case scenario" comes true, this would greatly reduce the amount of trips taken and perhaps cost Disney our AP renewals. I do not expect a discount, but I simply don't travel when they aren't good. When I bought my AP I already had two trips planned almost a year apart, that was the reason for initial purchase - it was simply an added benefit (for me AND Disney) that I could travel several more times in between because of the attractive room discounts offered.

At this point I go every couple of months. However, doing so requires a lot of juggling on my part - finances, time, airline and resort discounts. If something doesn't fall into place, then I don't go. If resort discounts become only available through this program (such conflicting information posted everywhere in the last few days, but for right now I'm trusting in JPVD in they aren't exclusive yet) then I'd likely have to reevaluate my need for an AP, only because I can NEVER plan 4 months ahead and with the prices of MYW tickets I'd just be better off to go with them. They greatly reduced the value of AP's in terms of park days, and if they combine that with this "maybe, maybe not" plan where you don't even know if you are booking a discount or not, it may not make sense for many to buy an AP.

That said, perhaps that's what Disney wants. Maybe they don't like those of us who come there for 20-30 park days a year on our AP's, with our discounted rooms. Perhaps they think we'll spend up to a month a year there (crazy, but some of us do right now) on rack rate and MYW passes - they are mistaken. I'd take one trip a year, max. And I'd still stay in a value, and they'd make a heck of a lot less money on food and souvineers and such, and all the people I bring down with me each trip who buy MYW tickets and again all the food and extras.

You would think they'd be trying to make it MORE attractive for those of us who travel frequently, because we must be more of a financial plus to them than local AP holders who typically don't eat on-site 3 meals a day or pay for lodging at all (the "Disneyland" effect). But then again, I have no idea - I'm no expert on passholder statistics.

So while what they are doing is perfectly "fair", in it's current form this isn't working for me. In order for me to participate, it would need to:

• Get rid of the 120-day pre-book (60 day MAX)
• Allow you to make changes without a "modification fee", ESPECIALLY if you are just changing things like adding/subtracting people OR moving your trip further away (aka delaying a trip)
• Give us at least the AAA rates - I'm an AAA card holder like many other APers, and I'd be pretty ticked if I had to put up with all these restrictions and in the end could have done better with the AAA card I already have.

The next few weeks as more offical information comes out will be very interesting. As long as I can still do it the old way, as JPVD said, I'll be happy - even if the "best price" saves a few % more. If not, I'll seriously reconsider my AP - not because it's "not fair", but because the only reason I travel enough to WDW to use my AP year after year is because of those attractive discounts. The same would happen if all of a sudden I couldn't get cheap airfare - I love Disney, but my level of need to be there as often as I am exponentially decreases based on how much it costs me to do so.

I just did some figures (and scared myself), and right now, I probably dump between $3-7K a year at WDW, and bring with me at least $4K (up to $10K/year) of extra business that wouldn't be coming without me. So that's $7K to $17K EVERY year Disney gets from me and my parties for lodging, food, souvineers, and park admission.

If this all becomes "worst case scenario" (the sky is falling) and I drop my AP, I'd STILL stay at a value resort and get whatever "general public" discount comes out (that's why God invented the Internet) and likely spend around $1.5K/year (if that) and bring much less business with me because I'm not coming back as often.

Again, I'm probably not typical...but I can't imagine the scenario is much different for other AP holders who aren't locals and take advantage of the discounts (not just those that use an AP in the 1st week and the 52nd week either). With less discounts and more restrictions, our trips will dwindle. The bottom line for me is, I simply can't ever book more than one vacation a year more than 4 months in advance so my need for an AP would diminish considerably. The question is, is that good for Disney's bottom line or not. Maybe they think they will sell the room they aren't giving me at a discount anyway at rack rate - but WDW is never at peak capacity when I travel (I go during off times - January, May, October, November, etc.). It's going to be interesting, at the very least.

AEfx

 

[dxwwf3]

For many AP holders outside of the Orlando area, I believe that if the "worst case scenario" comes true, this would greatly reduce the amount of trips taken and perhaps cost Disney our AP renewals.

Yes it most certainly would for us too.

That said, perhaps that's what Disney wants. Maybe they don't like those of us who come there for 20-30 park days a year on our AP's, with our discounted rooms. Perhaps they think we'll spend up to a month a year there (crazy, but some of us do right now) on rack rate and MYW passes - they are mistaken. I'd take one trip a year, max. And I'd still stay in a value, and they'd make a heck of a lot less money on food and souvineers and such, and all the people I bring down with me each trip who buy MYW tickets and again all the food and extras.

Our group would fit into the category of using 20-30 days of the AP. And we would also only take one trip per year if the new program turns into the ONLY way to book reservations at an AP rate.

As long as I can still do it the old way, as JPVD said, I'll be happy - even if the "best price" saves a few % more. If not, I'll seriously reconsider my AP - not because it's "not fair", but because the only reason I travel enough to WDW to use my AP year after year is because of those attractive discounts.

Bingo! I could not have worded my feelings any better.



Let's all hope that we are worrying about nothing and we can still make reservations with an AP discount the old way for many years to come.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Hey there AEfx, I completely agree with you on the vast majority of what you posted.
120 days isnt completely out of the ball park for me at least on my major trips ( May for the birthday December for Christmas etc) so I can live with that.
Give me a modification policy that says if you total remains the same or goes higher the $50.00 fee will be waived. I have heard a few people tell me that this is the case currently but I dont like when the rules say one thing and the practice is something else. What happens if you get the one CM who didnt get the memo??? You technically cant argue because the policy very clearly spells out that ANY changes would get the change fee!!!!
I agree about the amount equaling the AAA discount at the very least. Disney seems to have taken that one to heart at least and given us a mid 20% discount to start off with as opposed to Friday when everything I tried was coming up rack rate!!!!
I think IN CONJUNCTION with the original program this could work very well if they made some pretty simple modifications!!! Belle

 

[AEfx]

I think IN CONJUNCTION with the original program this could work very well if they made some pretty simple modifications!!! Belle

In short, I think that's the point.

There is SO much conflicting information out there today. I'm still trusting in JPVD, however, but he did say changes could happen at any time. I will look forward to hearing from him after today when rates were actually posted. According to almost all other sources, including those calling Disney today, the "regular way" seemingly is gone for now.

Most of what I said above was IF they made it the ONLY way. I totally agree - IN CONJUNCTION it could work and I could learn to work with it when appropriate (for an extra discount), but if it becomes the only option the scenario I posted above (where I go from 4-6 trips a year to 1 at most and no more AP) would come true for me.

I'm terribly glad my September/October trip is done and booked - my next trip wasn't planned until December after that so at least I can see how this works out for awhile before I decide.

AEfx

 

[awallaceunc]

Aefx, terrific post! I'm in agreement with you, and have a similar situation. My party and I don't bring quite as much to Disney a year as you do, but we still do bring several thousand dollars a year, and I'm just a 19 year old bringing various friends and family.

I'll be buying my first annual pass in a few weeks. Luckily, I already had my reservations made under the AP rate for this summer. Were this policy already in effect, and were it the 'only way', I wouldn't be getting an AP pass. Like Aefx said, that's not out of spite, but just because it wouldn't make financial sense for me otherwise. I know a lot of other APers have to be in the same boat.

I had been planning on renewing my AP from here on out. If this becomes the 'only way', though, I seriously doubt I'll do that.

I guess it's a good sign that the reaction has been overwhelmingly negative from AP-buying/AP-holding/AP-renewing guests. Most people seem to think this is a terrible idea IF it takes the place of the 'old way' (and it's not hard to see why), and hopefully that voice will be heard by Disney.

-Aaron

 

[mousermerf]

Lets play pretend:

Assume all 23,385 registered users (as off 11:08pm EST) of wdwmagic.com are AP holders who visit WDW the same way you guys do.

That's still the vast minority of WDW guests on any given day.

I understand why you personally may be upset or inconvienenced. There is no doubt this wont be "good" for everyone in the worst case scenario - but you're just not the majority in this matter.

 

[drp4video]

Very well said AeFx. I am in the same boat as you. Out of state, three trips a year, not always able to book 4 months prior to my stay as it depends on airfare and room discounts which have to gel with the airfare. I ususally have to deal with school breaks, but have a window in the summer.

Without the discounts on rooms, and the savings of not having to buy a pass EVERY time I go, I would only be able to afford to go once a year maybe, and as you pointed out, a revenue losing proposition for disney as I won't spend as much money with their corporation in that one stay.

Fairness is not an issue here as disney is in business for profit and can make whatever business changes that they want. It sucks for many of us. I just would have hoped that they would have remembered their loyal customers, those who stuck with them through the lean times, but I guess we really don't matter. I guess disney is just like every other money hungry corporation, a buck is a buck.

 

[tigger1968]

Lets play pretend:

Assume all 23,385 registered users (as off 11:08pm EST) of wdwmagic.com are AP holders who visit WDW the same way you guys do.

That's still the vast minority of WDW guests on any given day.

I understand why you personally may be upset or inconvienenced. There is no doubt this wont be "good" for everyone in the worst case scenario - but you're just not the majority in this matter.

Looking back at this thread, I have to admit, I do sound a bit whiny, don't I? :lol:

At any rate, I do realize that there will most probably be some discount available to me for my trip, and if there is not, so be it. Apparently using the word "unfair" has triggered some debate. Please insert the phrase "sucks for tigger1968" anywhere you see the word "unfair" in any of my posts in this thread...lol

I still stand by my question to Mousemerf though. Why exactly are you so hung up on making sure we all know that AP holders are not entitled to a room discount? I have asked you more than once to explain your position a little more clearly, but you don't seem to get beyond reminding us that we should feel lucky to get a discount if it's available.

I still feel that WDW should make every effort to reward those of us who are AP holders. We tend to make multiple trips, usually stay on property, and most likely spend considerably more money over time than your average resort guest. I still feel that one of the best perks to have as an AP holder is to have access to a discount on my room. Casinos have done this for years for their regulars, because they recognize that frequent returnees spend more over time than one time visitors.

Once again I ask you....are you willing to explain your point of view? I just honestly would like to see a good defense of your position. How 'bout it?

 

[AEfx]

That's still the vast minority of WDW guests on any given day.

I understand why you personally may be upset or inconvienenced. There is no doubt this wont be "good" for everyone in the worst case scenario - but you're just not the majority in this matter.

Of course AP holders are in the minority of WDW guests. Where did someone say otherwise?

As to the majority, the majority WHAT in this matter? AP holders vs. MYW users? Then yes, I agree - that's pretty obvious. AP holders who aren't locals and pay for lodging vs. local AP users who don't? If you have figures on that showing where the majority/minority lies, please share them with us.

The only point most of us are making is that this system will NOT benefit Disney unless they can somehow replace us with rack-rate guests, because those who have posted will reduce their personal trips considerably and drop the AP program. I have a hard time believing Disney is doing that well that they are anticipating 100% capacity in October and November this year - it makes no sense after reservations were so low they had to offer FREE dining for the preceeding months (which CM's are telling people they expect to possibly be extended).

So, I'm not sure what you are saying mousemerf - please explain a bit more. I totally agree with your statements earlier in this thread about this not being a question of "unfair", but I'm not sure what you are trying to say we aren't in the majority of and why it is relevant to the discussion at hand.

The AP holders that book rooms are the AP holders who live far away generally, so since this new system is almost entirely directed at us I think it's perfectly acceptable for us to post how this will change our visits to WDW in a way that benefits Disney much less. We are the target audience of this new program, so it's obvious we matter in some way.

It's a catch-22 - I also agree no one should buy an AP just for the promise of future room discounts, but on the other hand most years what makes my visits frequent enough to warrant renewing my AP is going to be the availability of discounts. Without the AP having my admission taken care of and a cheaper room, without planning four months in advance, I simply won't come to WDW as often. Now, out of the sub-group of AP holders who would use this new feature in the first place, if you have information as to how many of us are in the minority or the majority I'd really like to know. It would aid greatly in this discussion.

AEfx

 

[wannabeBelle]

Well as I said previously it seems that Disney is willing to at least give up some rates that are discounted to begin with and then they have the option to lower them even more for this Best Rate Program. So far that part of this is looking promising!!! I of course trust JPVD as well aand hopefully he will be able to report that the new system will be kept ( for those of us who can plan longer and hence get the greater discount) as well as the option for a reservation with an AP discount closer in to the date of the trip! That would seem to make sense to me as apparently many of our Florida AP holders do more spur of the moment trips. As I said Change that modification fee and I think I can comfortably go with the new plan as well.
Hi Tigger, I agree with you I dont think I understand why Mousemerf seems so opposed to having AP holders gettig room discounts? I like your casino example. That is exactly the same thing!!! Only thing is that Disney doesnt encourage gambling!!! I also agree with AEfx about replacing us with Rack Rate Guests. Not particularly likely. and also why would Disney have come up with this new plan, spent time and money in it's design and implementation all if the AP guests dont come to a 1% total of the guest visitors on that day. I actually think it is quite a bit higher but that is simply a personal observation, NOT one I can back by statistics. Belle