News New Park Entrance coming to Epcot

note2001

Well-Known Member
There are limits to how much the lights can project from the hardscape surface. The lights are just as much a trip hazard as they were before the monoliths were removed or anything else built into hardscape.
I don't think they're as much as a trip hazard as a slip hazard, and the key there is to make sure everyone is wearing footwear appropriate for the parks. No heels/hard soles or, and espeically, crocs which slip on all smooth or wet surfaces. If someone is likely to fall on the lights, chances are they'd also fall on the painted cement all over the place or wet boardwalks many resorts and the MK have.
 
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Nunu

Wanderluster
Premium Member
I don't think they're as much as a trip hazard as a slip hazard, and the key there is to make sure everyone is wearing gootwear appropriate for the parks. No heels/hard soles or, and espeically, crocs which slip on all smooth or wet surfaces. If someone is likely to fall on the lights, chances are they'd also fall on the painted cement all over the place or wet boardwalks many resorts and the MK have.
Amen to that! I've slipped twice on the painted cement you mention, last time was at All Star Movies, it was raining and I was carrying one mug on each hand and didn't let go of them (why?!), got both my knees black-bruised. I was wearing Crocs, btw.
Painful AND embarrassing! 😖😳

So yeah, we'll see about those lights... :cautious:
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Not when comes to the code they must meet or when tens of thousands of guests are exiting the park.

Seriously... you're going with the "to the letter of the law" defense instead of what makes sense for a overly paranoid, customer service oriented (supposedly), organization?

The discussion wasn't about what they MUST do, but what their choices mean in practice.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
Seriously... you're going with the "to the letter of the law" defense instead of what makes sense for a overly paranoid, customer service oriented (supposedly), organization?

The discussion wasn't about what they MUST do, but what their choices mean in practice.
The point is that the lights are held to the same codes and standards for safety whether they are near a structure or in the middle of the walkway. This type of fixture is used all over WDW in high and low traffic areas and they are quite familiar with them.

The other point was just because they were near a structure doesn’t mean that thousands of guests aren’t walking over them especially at post illuminations rush and rope drop periods.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Seriously... you're going with the "to the letter of the law" defense instead of what makes sense for a overly paranoid, customer service oriented (supposedly), organization?

The discussion wasn't about what they MUST do, but what their choices mean in practice.
Disney has their own internal safety standards that will even exceed the legal requirements of the EPCOT Building Code. The lights wouldn’t be allowed if they didn’t meet those same standards employed throughout Walt Disney World.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Disney has their own internal safety standards that will even exceed the legal requirements of the EPCOT Building Code. The lights wouldn’t be allowed if they didn’t meet those same standards employed throughout Walt Disney World.

It was never a question of it it would be legal or allowed... it was a question of 'if they should'. Especially when all this is temporary anyways.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
It was never a question of it it would be legal or allowed... it was a question of 'if they should'. Especially when all this is temporary anyways.
I didn’t say anything about it being legal. Disney’s own standards for lighting in hardscape that they use everywhere else still applied to these lights and still apply now. People aren’t falling over other fixtures so there is no reason to assume these will somehow suddenly be different.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
People aren’t falling over other fixtures so there is no reason to assume these will somehow suddenly be different.

But it will be different. And back to my original comment... It's a lot different for something throwing light up on a massive granite wall just inches from it... vs being out in a wide walkway.

Not because of building code...
Not because of EPCOT code...
But because of STUPID HUMANS

How people will interact with this space WILL be different. If it is different enough to matter.. well that's the question.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
But it will be different. And back to my original comment... It's a lot different for something throwing light up on a massive granite wall just inches from it... vs being out in a wide walkway.

Not because of building code...
Not because of EPCOT code...
But because of STUPID HUMANS

How people will interact with this space WILL be different. If it is different enough to matter.. well that's the question.
Buts it’s not different because there are already places guests in large numbers walk over these and even in this location the granite walls didn’t prevent people from walking on them.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
But it will be different. And back to my original comment... It's a lot different for something throwing light up on a massive granite wall just inches from it... vs being out in a wide walkway.

Not because of building code...
Not because of EPCOT code...
But because of STUPID HUMANS

How people will interact with this space WILL be different. If it is different enough to matter.. well that's the question.
How they get built is the same. The in-grade light built next to an object has to meet the standards of one built in the middle of a walkway. And by standards I mean the park safety standards, not the building codes.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Buts it’s not different because there are already places guests in large numbers walk over these and even in this location the granite walls didn’t prevent people from walking on them.

Stop being so literal. No one said that walking on them would be new. The point was about the difference between an open walkway vs spaces that are obstructed or otherwise not as commonly traveled.

I shouldn't have to spell out that crowd movements (and level of attention from people) going through an open space are different than movement along a wall, corner, or around an obstruction.

When you put something along a wall... it differs from putting it across the middle of the path. People moving around obstructions pay more attention because they are navigating and expecting variation. Things along the wall or in corners do not get the same kind of traffic over them because they aren't in the general path of movement, or simply because they may be too close to the obstruction to actually be in the actual foot paths. Only so many people can fit in a physical space that is crowded by an obstruction like a wall.

People moving through a continuous open space get lulled into complacency and pay less attention because they are not expecting their footing to change. Add in crowds where you can't easily see what's in front of you, and people loose track of their footing and steps. It's why the rails in mainstreet are such a problem and why guests aren't simply 'paying more attention' where they step. It's a situation that is harbored because of the environment and conditions.... and when you unleash the masses... probabilities do their thing.

So it IS different. Do I think it's some huge risk? No. I'm just more facinated by Disney not just biting the bullet here and continuing on with the next phase of the change. Why go through this effort to make the paths traversable again... just get on with it already.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
Stop being so literal. No one said that walking on them would be new. The point was about the difference between an open walkway vs spaces that are obstructed or otherwise not as commonly traveled.

I shouldn't have to spell out that crowd movements (and level of attention from people) going through an open space are different than movement along a wall, corner, or around an obstruction.

When you put something along a wall... it differs from putting it across the middle of the path. People moving around obstructions pay more attention because they are navigating and expecting variation. Things along the wall or in corners do not get the same kind of traffic over them because they aren't in the general path of movement, or simply because they may be too close to the obstruction to actually be in the actual foot paths. Only so many people can fit in a physical space that is crowded by an obstruction like a wall.

People moving through a continuous open space get lulled into complacency and pay less attention because they are not expecting their footing to change. Add in crowds where you can't easily see what's in front of you, and people loose track of their footing and steps. It's why the rails in mainstreet are such a problem and why guests aren't simply 'paying more attention' where they step. It's a situation that is harbored because of the environment and conditions.... and when you unleash the masses... probabilities do their thing.

So it IS different. Do I think it's some huge risk? No. I'm just more facinated by Disney not just biting the bullet here and continuing on with the next phase of the change. Why go through this effort to make the paths traversable again... just get on with it already.
You are still missing the point that these already exist in open walkways all over the property.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
You are obsessed with a difference that doesn’t really exist.
No, it's I'm being precise that the installations differ from what they were prior, to what (they appear) they will be now. That's what I was commenting on. If it matters to those passing over them... well, that's a separate conclusion from the first point.

Where do you find the ground lamps throughout the middle of walkways on property? I can't think of any in my mind... as their purpose is generally to throw light onto things. Please share so others can relate.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
No, it's I'm being precise that the installations differ from what they were prior, to what (they appear) they will be now. That's what I was commenting on. If it matters to those passing over them... well, that's a separate conclusion from the first point.

Where do you find the ground lamps throughout the middle of walkways on property? I can't think of any in my mind... as their purpose is generally to throw light onto things. Please share so others can relate.
382024
 

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