News New Park Entrance coming to Epcot

[jt04]

So in one post you both asked for 'small segments' of a transport solution and complained about non-direct segments of a transport solution.

Um, yes. Is there a contradiction I'm missing?

I'm thinking of doing an overview in the Imagineering forum.

What do you think?

 

[Missing20K]

Sorry, what now?
Whimsy in EPCOT? Is it really MK2.0 after all? Elsas a problem, but maybe a fifty foot monochromatic troll statue looming over the Norway pavilion would be A-O.K?
Swan and Dolphin decimated any sense of scale in World Showcase, as did Yacht and Beach Club. The hotels are fine, but the views from inside the park are and have always been horrendous (I too saw them bare and new.) Swans as big as the Eiffel Tower? What makes those hotels worse is the we can see normal sized windows on normal sized floors standing behind buildings with diminished effects in play. Our brain is basically confronted with a background element that reads as larger than the foreground.
Any windowless structure is better though neither would be best.
From the outset I have always found the forced perspective ratio too severe in World Showcase especially for the sheer size of the lagoon. In Magic Kingdom these elements work because we are amongst them- except for the far larger castle we aren't seeing the standard 10:9:8 three story buildings from half a mile away. Things only got worse when the trees around them matured and the whole thing looked even more like a bunch of miniatures. The resorts were the final blow to any visual cohesion. There's so much furur now, but the nails were in the coffin thirty years ago. Build a mountain range, otherwise I don't know if the promenade can ever look right again.

You’re not wrong. Though I find validity in both viewpoints. The forced perspective in WS only ever worked from certain distances/vantage points. Some places the minaret looks as tall as the Eiffel Tower. I think the overgrown trees are a bigger issue. As is the Soarin’ hangar.

I also don’t entirely mind seeing Swolphin as much as they can quite easily portray a far off city that’s still congruent with the idea of being in one of the countries. A peach and blue city, perhaps, but a city nonetheless.

Now, am I stretching a bit (or a lot) to make that work? Yes I am. But mustn’t we always suspend disbelief in exchange for reassurance at the parks anyway?

 

[castlecake2.0]

Them accepting it doesn't mean I have to. It just seems like such a comparatively easy fix and wouldn't even need much maintenance since no one's ever going to see it up close.

Guest.services@disneyworld.com

take a moment and tell them. I emailed about it last week (if they still read my emails lol) like you said it doesn’t need to be anything crazy. Even if they just added some landscaping? I get you’re always going to see backstage areas from the skyliner, you see them from the monorail too, but they can at least try to clean it up a bit with some landscaping instead of just a pile of dirt, weeds, and a shabby cast member bus stop.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Guest.services@disneyworld.com

take a moment and tell them. I emailed about it last week (if they still read my emails lol) like you said it doesn’t need to be anything crazy. Even if they just added some landscaping? I get you’re always going to see backstage areas from the skyliner, you see them from the monorail too, but they can at least try to clean it up a bit with some landscaping instead of just a pile of dirt, weeds, and a shabby cast member bus stop.

I'm also somewhat surprised some kind of mural or green roof wasn't installed on the creperie and restroom roofs. Could have helped distract from other backstage issues. And ditto for the TTC ticket window and EPCOT entrance plaza roofs on the monorails. Wide swaths of plain rubber sheeting that could be so much nicer looking.

 

[marni1971]

I'm also somewhat surprised some kind of mural or green roof wasn't installed on the creperie and restroom roofs.

That was the original plan.

 

[castlecake2.0]

That was the original plan.

Was there any plan for backstage views behind the pavilion at all? Literally just some trees and landscaping would help, they don’t have to create a French village back there, just make it look like the other public roadways on property.

 

[marni1971]

Was there any plan for backstage views behind the pavilion at all? Literally just some trees and landscaping would help, they don’t have to create a French village back there, just make it look like the other public roadways on property.

No. The Skyliner bid included accepted negatives - the backstage view was one of them.

No aircon was another

 

[bpiper]

No. The Skyliner bid included accepted negatives - the backstage view was one of them.

No aircon was another

So if they had sprung for the upgrade package, we could have had A/C?

That should be like on new cars nowadays, standard equipment.....

 

[RSoxNo1]

I will never say they would never fix it. Worst case, nobody complains about the Soarin' buildings anymore.

Well one of the Soarin' buildings is blocked by the other Soarin' building.

 

[RSoxNo1]

No. The Skyliner bid included accepted negatives - the backstage view was one of them.

No aircon was another

Do you know what the cost of the Skyliner was?

 

[G00fyDad]

Do you know what the cost of the Skyliner was?

I'd bet equal to the cost of a good attraction.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I'd bet equal to the cost of a good attraction.

I'm ok with that, at least there's something functional that improves the guest experience. Compare that to the $2-3 billion Next Gen project.

 

[marni1971]

Do you know what the cost of the Skyliner was?

$315 million give or take.

 

[UNCgolf]

$315 million give or take.

That's not that bad all things considered, especially since some people love the system. For me it's a tremendous waste of money because I think the Skyliner is terrible and would rather ride a bus or walk, but I'm not the only person who visits Disney.

I wonder how that compares to the price of expanding the monorail system. I'd expect the monorail to cost more for various reasons.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Guest.services@disneyworld.com

take a moment and tell them. I emailed about it last week (if they still read my emails lol) like you said it doesn’t need to be anything crazy. Even if they just added some landscaping? I get you’re always going to see backstage areas from the skyliner, you see them from the monorail too, but they can at least try to clean it up a bit with some landscaping instead of just a pile of dirt, weeds, and a shabby cast member bus stop.

Try to think of the Gondola as another working/attraction like the Monorail. No one seems to mind that you can see the Monorail from many directions. If the Gondola's are to remain a transportation alternative you have to show the riders something more then a bunch of trees. Having them visually able to see into WS is incentive for Disney to not just maintain the front of the buildings but all of it and give the guest a glimpse of a relatively pristine backlot. I will bet that the pile of dirt, etc. visible from the gondola is in an area where construction is still taking place, but even if it wasn't you are talking about a vehicle that is operating to take you to the attractions, why is it so interesting to everyone. No one wants to see how the sausage was made.

As for some of the rest of it. The Swan and Dolphin were noticeable the first year, but if you want something to be realistic you can't exclude things from another location. Plus, like the Soarin building, I don't even notice that anymore either because it is impossible to notice it unless you are actually looking for it and ignoring the rest of your surroundings.

 

[TikibirdLand]

That's not that bad all things considered, especially since some people love the system. For me it's a tremendous waste of money because I think the Skyliner is terrible and would rather ride a bus or walk, but I'm not the only person who visits Disney.

I wonder how that compares to the price of expanding the monorail system. I'd expect the monorail to cost more for various reasons.

And, best of all, it gets all the features of the old People Mover: Bumper Cars!

 

[Creathir]

That's not that bad all things considered, especially since some people love the system. For me it's a tremendous waste of money because I think the Skyliner is terrible and would rather ride a bus or walk, but I'm not the only person who visits Disney.

I wonder how that compares to the price of expanding the monorail system. I'd expect the monorail to cost more for various reasons.

Given an off the shelf system of this size likely would cost everyone else $70-$90 million, SOMEONE made some bank along the way…
It’s atrocious how much Disney paid for this system.

As far as monorail expansion, you’d be looking at something closer to $500M-$1B likely. Mass transportation systems are outrageously overpriced, mainly because they have municipalities and governments as primary customers, which have very deep pockets. Why Disney’s procurement department decided to take the day off on this project and pay 4X-5X for a ski lift is beyond me…

 

[UNCgolf]

Given an off the shelf system of this size likely would cost everyone else $70-$90 million, SOMEONE made some bank along the way…
It’s atrocious how much Disney paid for this system.

As far as monorail expansion, you’d be looking at something closer to $500M-$1B likely. Mass transportation systems are outrageously overpriced, mainly because they have municipalities and governments as primary customers, which have very deep pockets. Why Disney’s procurement department decided to take the day off on this project and pay 4X-5X for a ski lift is beyond me…

That's true of everything Disney builds, though. It all costs far more than it should. I agree with you in principle, but that's a different discussion regarding Disney's overall cost inflation. I also think the Disney system is different in multiple ways from an off-the-shelf system, but I'm not positive about that.

In addition to costs, the monorail also requires far more ground space.

 

[marni1971]

In addition to costs, the monorail also requires far more ground space.

Only during construction

And the odd bend.

 

[UNCgolf]

Only during construction

And the odd bend.

I was somehow forgetting that the Skyliner also requires regular columns. I would take an expansion of the monorail over the Skyliner 100 out of 100 times.

By the way, I made a comment about this elsewhere, but with your knowledge you might have some insight -- was operational ability ever one of the considerations for not expanding the monorail? It didn't stop them from building the Skyliner, of course, but I could see apprehension over what would happen in the event of a shutdown if the majority of guests used it to get around the property.