Rumor New Orleans Mini-Land and "Reimagined" Country Bear Jamboree

[Willmark]

Rumor or not, the removal of Frontierland is only a matter of time.

 

[James Alucobond]

Pixar Pier cost more than Expedition Everest. And you’d need to do a lot more work than you suggest to get something that doesn’t just look like a cheap imitation.

I mean, we’re of course talking relative costs here. Everything is far beyond my comprehension in terms of spending, but in context, this should be a small(er) part of the budget for a larger reworking of the entire area if it happens.

I also feel they would go for a less urban New Orleans vibe here, hence why I think you might get away with a more subtle transformation. It’s never going to feel like an actual street in the French Quarter because you only have buildings on one side of the main path.

 

[Squishy]

What are the chances of the splash gift shop becoming the Tiana ride entrance with the train station & big thunder staying frontierland? This would create a better distinction between the two lands & also open up that area under the station to become the pathway to the new expansions which may cause less traffic bottlenecks.

 

[doctornick]

What are the chances of the splash gift shop becoming the Tiana ride entrance with the train station & big thunder staying frontierland? This would create a better distinction between the two lands & also open up that area under the station to become the pathway to the new expansions which may cause less traffic bottlenecks.
View attachment 710527

That's actually not terrible. I'd still prefer keeping Frontierland as is and making the "expansion path" as you wrote as the New Orleans area but that would be a decent demarcation. Realistically they don't need the Briar Patch shop as a ride location as they still would have the "Splash Down photos" location which perhaps could be expanded to hold more merch.

I guess one nice thing about what you are saying is it could keep the TSI ferry launch as part of Frontierland too.

 

[Mastermott]

You had me at “Vacation Hoedown” returning…

 

[networkpro]

I appreciate all the perspectives many of you bring, and I love both DSNY and Mickey Views. I personally think NOS is the best land Disney’s ever built (Cars Land is a very close 2nd, and haven’t been to Pandora yet).

Respectfully, I think we’re looking at this from the wrong perspective. Many of us keep trying to guess what the plans are going to be, asking ourselves “Is it thematically congruent?” Sadly I don’t think that’s going to win the day when Disney decided whether to keep an attraction. The better questions, if you want to discern the current trajectory of WDI, are, “Is this current thing problematic?” and “How can we better utilize underrepresented IP and/or marginalized groups currently without representation?”

Pecos Bills? Problematic. The concept of a “Frontier” and its attendant historical issues? Problematic. Tom Sawyer and the works of Mark Twain? Problematic (despite their consideration as among the greatest American novels of all time).

A switch to a vague “Southwestern Land” that erases these concepts while bringing characters from PATF, Coco, and Encancto to the fore is a triple play: it 1) undoes problematic antecedents, 2) brings more robust IP into the parks, and 3) adds diverse representation. To understand the reasoning behind the reimagining of this entire swath of the park look no further than what’s being done to Splash.

These all have the same cultural problem: Criollos vs meztizo vs indigenous... whom really defines the culture for a region ? They all exist, all in the same areas, but who gets to decide which is the valid representation ? Its the same essential problem that any portrayal faces...let's play the game again.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I would still like a smaller Frontierland. It’s an important part of US history/lore.

…but this New Orleans idea eliminates the “Tiana’s attraction doesn’t belong here” grumbling. “OK, we’ll change where ‘here’ is!” Clever.

One thing I just hope they do is maintain the charm of Country Bear Jamboree, even if they are going to do a new version.

Confirmed! At least two gay bears.

 

[Tha Realest]

These all have the same cultural problem: Criollos vs meztizo vs indigenous... whom really defines the culture for a region ? They all exist, all in the same areas, but who gets to decide which is the valid representation ? Its the same essential problem that any portrayal faces...let's play the game again.

Oh I get it, trust me. I also don’t get the sense they do much homework on these things, hence the decisions like taking inspiration from the Avery salt mines for TBA. I could see them, for example, building thematic elements taking inspirational cues from the Aztecs.

 

[BBarker34]

The rumor was that CBJ would actually not be replaced. The outside facade will get an update, akin to Muppet Vision 3D when it switched to a downtown-LA theater kind of look style.

Supposedly, WDI is hoping for a budget to redo the AA's into new ones, to move away from the hard to find old-parts and ease maintenance. Then supposedly the show itself will revert back to Vacation Hoedown. And with these tech/show upgrades, WDI hopes that will keep Disney from ridding of CBJ in the future after investing into it.

But at the bare minimum, if there is no budget for show upgrades, the facade will get refreshed to align with New Orleans Street and the inside will remain the "same".

So CBJ is here to stay, at least according to this rumor.

It seems that the Country Bears just can’t get off of the “Rumor Ride” lately. Ha! If it is true, I would actually be alright with Disney rebuilding the CBJ animatronics and have them perform the Vacation Hoedown again (The Christmas Special too if possible). I just want the Bears to still have their home at the Magic Kingdom for years to come. One of my all time favorites!

 

[Tony the Tigger]

These all have the same cultural problem: Criollos vs meztizo vs indigenous... whom really defines the culture for a region ? They all exist, all in the same areas, but who gets to decide which is the valid representation ? Its the same essential problem that any portrayal faces...let's play the game again.

Oh I get it, trust me. I also don’t get the sense they do much homework on these things, hence the decisions like taking inspiration from the Avery salt mines for TBA. I could see them, for example, building thematic elements taking inspirational cues from the Aztecs.

It's not a museum; it's a theme park. It was never supposed to be as accurate as a museum. Let's not overthink it even more than usual.

 

[GladToBeHear]

It's not a museum; it's a theme park. It was never supposed to be as accurate as a museum. Let's not overthink it even more than usual.

Agreed. It really is a slippery slope if you go down that path. And where do you draw the line?

Some perspective goes a long way. Give your audience the benefit of the doubt. They're not stupid.

 

[Vclguy90]

My concern is that new Frontierland behind Big Thunder will not be a representation of the American Frontier/Wild West and be that lousy "Desert land" with Coco and Encanto. That Brayden guy and his MickeyViews blog suck big time!

Damn man that's rough. Give the dude a chance! Lol

I mean, the change makes sense. He makes a valid point with the aging Country Bears and Tom Sawyer going away due to it's racial slurs and stereotypes (it's just a matter of time in this current climate). But, regarding the New Orleans "street" retheme, I like it but I think it's going to be a half-'d New Orleans Square experience. As a resident of New Orleans and frequent visitor of the French Quarter and Disneyland, the charm and intimacy of both are the narrow streets that entice you to explore. Just a strip of a few French Quarter themed shops and a restaurant seems weak and a bit of a pointless retheme. But I guess they have the get TBA to fit in somehow...

But if this IS going to happen, I would like to see Frontierland stay in the park but move to beyond big Thunder with BTMR being the entrance and maybe pulling out the Western River Expedition for reimagining into some major E-Ticket. For nostalgia-sake. Hell, I'll take an exact clone of Grizzly Gulch if it means keeping a western themed area in the park and avoiding Coco or Encanto attractions. God forbid execs let imagineers be creative to imagine a "new" Frontierland.

 

[BlakeW39]

one of the WDI heads, and the lead on this Splash refurb, sets out her overarching philosophy for these changes here:

The Alchemy of Inclusion with Disney’s Carmen Smith

Carmen Smith shares how Disney promotes diversity and inclusion by embracing creativity, understanding vulnerability, and providing an immersive experience.

cokecmosummit.com

I just don’t see Pecos Bills, “Frontierland“ as we know it, or many of the aspects of Country Bears surviving much longer.

I'm sorry my friend but when WDI's job is to, and I quote, "leverage the company's library of intellectual properties," rather than— you know —create ANYTHING new...I get real tired of hearing Disney get on their soap box with all these buzz words like 'stories' and 'creativity.' Modern Disney wouldn't know creativity if it hit them over the head with a lead pipe.

Ugh, I really can't stomach this. "It made many people feel uncomfortable and offended." Really? I was uncomfortable and offended when I rode Splash Mountain with dimmed lights and no motion on the AAs, but that's not what she's talking about. I'd like to know the statistics of how many complaints about Splash Mountain's apparent lack of inclusivity Guest Relations received every year. The over/under is 3, and I'm taking the under.

And the Country Bears...are people lining up at City Hall to complain about the inherent discrimination shown by a bunch of robotic bears singing humorous folk songs? Do people refuse to eat at Pecos Bill's because they don't like his mythical story?

I'm really getting sick of this.

^^^^^^^^^^

 

[celluloid]

I'm sorry my friend but when WDI's job is to, and I quote, "leverage the company's library of intellectual properties," rather than— you know —create ANYTHING new...I get real tired of hearing Disney get on their soap box with all these buzz words like 'stories' and 'creativity' and blah blah blah. Modern Disney Parks wouldn't know creativity if it hit them over the head with a lead pipe.



^^^^^^^^^^

Team Spark Note and Synergy.


Imagineering was its finest when it was think tank the gong show for the CEO.

Now it is an extension of treating something like a product rather than a service and entetainment industry.

 

[Henry Mystic]

Damn man that's rough. Give the dude a chance! Lol

I mean, the change makes sense. He makes a valid point with the aging Country Bears and Tom Sawyer going away due to it's racial slurs and stereotypes (it's just a matter of time in this current climate). But, regarding the New Orleans "street" retheme, I like it but I think it's going to be a half-'d New Orleans Square experience. As a resident of New Orleans and frequent visitor of the French Quarter and Disneyland, the charm and intimacy of both are the narrow streets that entice you to explore. Just a strip of a few French Quarter themed shops and a restaurant seems weak and a bit of a pointless retheme. But I guess they have the get TBA to fit in somehow...

But if this IS going to happen, I would like to see Frontierland stay in the park but move to beyond big Thunder with BTMR being the entrance and maybe pulling out the Western River Expedition for reimagining into some major E-Ticket. For nostalgia-sake. Hell, I'll take an exact clone of Grizzly Gulch if it means keeping a western themed area in the park and avoiding Coco or Encanto attractions. God forbid execs let imagineers be creative to imagine a "new" Frontierland.

To be honest, Grizzly Gulch feels like an inferior Frontierland. It’s great to see a different take on it but it lacks the rich detail throughout the land that Frontierland has.

Grizzly Mountain Runaway Mine Cars is the land’s biggest issue as it’s a surprisingly weak ride. Its scale is far larger than Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, but I think SDMT is way better executed for what it is. Grizzly Mountain has too many straight sections where nothing is happening. The queue is also pretty weak, which I personally don’t mind all that much, but it’s worth mentioning for comparison’s sake.

If anything, taking design cues from Disneyland Paris is the better approach even if the style is different.

 

[Vclguy90]

Grizzly Gulch to be honest, feels like an inferior Frontierland. It’s great to see a different take on it but it lacks the rich detail throughout the land that Frontierland does. Grizzly Runaway Minecsrs does is the land’s biggest issue however as it’s a surprisingly weak ride. It’s scale is far larger than Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, but I thibk SDMT is way better executed for what it is. It has too many straight sections.

If anything, taking design cues from Disneyland Paris is the better approach.

To be fair I've never been to HKDL. Only seen vids. DLP's Frontierland but it's nothing more than MK Frontierland except with Phantom Manor and a more fleshed out story. I'm proposing a whole new take on frontierland. Something nostalgic yet modern and fresh.

 

[Henry Mystic]

To be fair I've never been to HKDL. Only seen vids. DLP's Frontierland but it's nothing more than MK Frontierland except with Phantom Manor and a more fleshed out story. I'm proposing a whole new take on frontierland. Something nostalgic yet modern and fresh.

I definitely disagree. I think there’s an argument to be made that Disneyland Paris’ Frontierland is in another stratosphere versus Orlando or Anaheim.

While they share many design cues, everything has more detail, from the pavement to the landscaping and the facades, and of course a more deliberate design with the placement of weenies. That is on top of the fact that the backstory was revolutionary for a theme park at the time.

It’s one of my favorite lands anywhere:

I think Orlando’s still looks great but it doesn’t feel as real. It also is bizarre having Big Thunder Mountain so far away from the land itself, tucked away. With that said, there’s no world where it’s a priority; the Villains Land should happen before. The park is extremely overcrowded and under built.

 

[Speedy71]

All this energy could be spent elsewhere....

 

[Incomudro]

It's not a museum; it's a theme park. It was never supposed to be as accurate as a museum. Let's not overthink it even more than usual.

Unfortunately, the "accurate" thing is becoming very pervasive in what is supposed to be entertainment in much of entertainment,

 

[Magenta Panther]

I'm sorry my friend but when WDI's job is to, and I quote, "leverage the company's library of intellectual properties," rather than— you know —create ANYTHING new...I get real tired of hearing Disney get on their soap box with all these buzz words like 'stories' and 'creativity.' Modern Disney wouldn't know creativity if it hit them over the head with a lead pipe.



^^^^^^^^^^

True. Today's Imagineers don't even know how to tell a coherent story. MMRR is a narrative mess. The atrocity that replaced Tower of Terror in Disneyland is even more so. The Little Mermaid ride looks like a cheap quickie (except for the Ursula AA) because the sea-battle between Ursula and the Prince was reduced to an Ursula cardboard cutout bobbing up and down on one wall. Smuggler's Run is pretty much a fail. But what does narrative matter anymore? Cast Members now rush park guests through the foyer in Haunted Mansion, where the narrative of the ride begins; guests are supposed to stand in front of the portrait and watch it change while the narrator begins the ride's story. But who cares, says today's Disney. Rush the cattle through and pack them into the stretching room ASAP! And stop the ride every minute to let scooter riders on, even though that breaks the narrative flow! It's all a body-count with Iger. There's a story about Walt Disney wherein he once rode the Jungle Cruise incognito, then scolded the ride operator about rushing things: "Slow it down! I don't know if I saw alligators or hippos!"