Kman101
Well-Known Member
Pixie dust infused construction walls!
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New nighttime show 'Rivers of Light' confirmed to be coming to Disney's Animal Kingdom
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Pixie dust infused construction walls!
21stamps
Well-Known Member
I think the bottom line is- people love Disney for different reasons. That's why millions of people hold it so dear to them. We aren't all going to like every single thing, or every decision made.
Like Tony said, to some of us AK is not classic Disney. It's the "newer park". For me personally, Mickey Mouse is classic Disney.. the cartoons and characters and seeing them come to life is what grabbed me at such a young age. Cinderella's castle filled me with amazement as a little girl, and still does. Climbing a tree house imaging that I was transported Inside one of my favorite movies..and so much more.
Then there was Epcot, different from any place else that we visited. It amazed and it provided its own unique experiences. Animal Kingdom never captured my heart the same way Epcot and MK did, HS did not capture it until recently. (Everyone gasp, I know)
In the end though "Disney" for the most part is synonymous with the characters and the movies for a lot of us. There are plenty of amazing aquariums to visit, but how many aquariums have Nemo? How many Zoos have Tarzan and Donald Duck inside? These are things that make Disney different than other destinations, not just safari rides and beautiful trails.
I think I said earlier in this thread, or somewhere on this site, Africa is our favorite part of AK..the music, the food, and the atmosphere.. I don't want or think that area should be full of cartoon characters..but if they added some that fit into the theme-I'd survive, and still love it just as much. One of my least favorite parts of AK is the petting zoo, we spent way too much time there and I was a little aggravated. We can pet those same animals any day of the week, but I sat in silent annoyance as my son brushed those darn animals for well over half an hour. It's there, it's enjoyable to plenty of people I'm sure, so no reason for me to really get upset about it. @Gomer my 6 year old loved the imersiveness too, and the Explorers Club and he would still love them if more character themed attractions or meets were around.
I guess my point in the marathon post is that they can all exist at once, and people can love or not love them for what they are. I'm sure RoL will be amazing..but for me personally, if they build a new show fine, if they stick with the original plan that's fine too.. neither one will make or break it for me. I try to enjoy something for what it is, not what it was...especially if I haven't even seen it yet.
And that's what makes discussion boards so interesting. Opinion.
It'd be boring if everyone thought the same.
GiveMeTheMusic
Well-Known Member
Paging @lazyboy97o who can perhaps write a much more eloquent response to this debate than I can. (Don't feel obligated, but your perspective would be appreciated!)
21stamps
Well-Known Member
I agree.
I came on message boards less than a year ago, and here is what has shocked me-
The attitude and contemp that so many "Disney Fans" seem to have. It's not just message boards though, I read something on a Disney FB page today that shocked and saddened me as well.
In all of my years of myself, my family, and my friends being (what I consider) big Disney Fans.. I've never seen that attitude displayed before. It's a destination that we love, and that's it. Some people want to eat and breathe Disney, that's great too. But reading some responses of just general "I'm a bigger fan so I know what's better for the parks and for all of us" is so odd to me.
Similar to what I read on FB today, a woman posted that her trip was hectic and she probably won't take her family again. Some responses were empathetic. Other were downright rude and obnoxious. One in particular that really summed it up for me said "Well I can't imagine laying on a beach doing nothing for 7 days." I'm sorry what? There is a whole big world of things that are neither laying on a beach for 7 days OR going to WDW. These small minded smug attitudes just shock me coming from "Disney" people. You would think, at least I think, that they would be the opposite of smug and condescending.
I think that's prevelant in life in general, not just theme park boards.
Accessability to Social media and the internet continually makes more and more people - of younger and younger ages - able to get their thoughts out there. People of all social circles and education levels.
You also have to realise many fans can see beyond the pixie dust to the hard management ethics and how the parks are being run today. Tha same internet that allows people to broadcast their opinion also makes communicating directly with people.... in the know... possible. Many uber fans - and I'd count myself here - understand and want to understand how the parks work, why the parks work, who makes them work. And in doing so find out things they may find less than agreeable.
As an example, a regular fan may want to ride the golf ball coz it's fun. I want to know how the image capture, storage and transfer wifi network works and why it didn't work. That's what floats my boat. Everyone's different. But very few should be seen as being flat out wrong. Though a few constantly are
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EPCOTCenterLover
Well-Known Member
Since I wrote the post that made you respond, I'll explain my perspective. There are many varied thoughts, but mine go along this route.
I was always a person who loved the educational aspects of the parks, beginning with Disneyland. And I loved that being consistent in theme and execution was so important. As Epcot becomes more and more toon-centric, it is losing what made it so wonderful and unique to begin with. For now, DAK has just the right balance of IP and original animal focused intent. I don't want that park to also suffer from loss of vision, so I'd like to see new exhibits and attractions continue to grow in that direction vs. IP. I think that is as simple as I can make it.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
I think that's prevelant in life in general, not just theme park boards.
Accessability to Social media and the internet continually makes more and more people - of younger and younger ages - able to get their thoughts out there. People of all social circles and education levels.
You also have to realise many fans can see beyond the pixie dust to the hard management ethics and how the parks are being run today. Tha same internet that allows people to broadcast their opinion also makes communicating directly with people.... in the know... possible. Many uber fans - and I'd count myself here - understand and want to understand how the parks work, why the parks work, who makes them work. And in doing so find out things they may find less than agreeable.
As an example, a regular fan may want to ride the golf ball coz it's fun. I want to know how the image capture, storage and transfer wifi network works and why it didn't work. That's what floats my boat. Everyone's different. But very few should be seen as being flat out wrong. Though a few constantly are
Those type of fans are great. Without you guys we wouldn't have the guides, the videos, and so much more interesting and useful info.
As I said, my love of Disney started with the wonderment of it all..that still exists for me. As I grew older I started becoming fascinated with Walt Disney and the empire he built. I think my idea of "Walt Disney" and what he created is different than a lot of other people's here. We each have our own view on history I guess.
I think the business aspect of it, the utter domination and game changing that these parks accomplished, as well as constantly figuring out what people want and need is true success, one that deserves admiration. People change, customers change, businesses adapt and try to capitalize on and provide for these changes. That's where many of us differ. It all provides for interesting conversation though.
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
I agree, it shocked me as well. I expected it on political sites, news sites, etc. but I did not expect it on a Disney fan site. I think in my first few weeks here, I blocked 5 or 6 people. My guess is there are some emotional issues strewn about LOL - the need to feel special or important, to be some kind of authority, etc. I have no use for it. I came here to talk about a shared love of something, maybe find out some things I didn't know. I've enjoyed some minor participation with the pretend (no offense) imagineering threads, trip reports, etc.
And I'd say my upcoming trips are at least a little better for it.
I also enjoy a healthy debate now and again, and I do consider myself a fairly big Disney fan, but there is perspective. There are other things in my life. I realize a policy change (other than price increase) is probably not going to ruin my day or my trip, and I will like some and not others, and that's fine.
Also - Disney as "big business" is doing [almost] exactly what it should be doing. I say almost, because the execution could use some improvement(!) But synergy is important, and cross-promotion is important. Some may see it as the big bad company, but I'm more concerned with price increases in that regard. Cross-selling is a natural, and not doing it is practically corporate malpractice. We (via Wall Street) have ridiculous expectations of companies always improving year over year, regardless of how that is achieved. One way to achieve it is to have multiple draws. To use the Nemo example again, some will go for Nemo, some will go for the aquarium, some will go for both. The probably safe assumption is more "net bodies" will go with both being there than with one or the other, making more efficient use of the space and the employees assigned to that space. Again, the cartoon fish can also be a draw to spark interest in the actual marine life.
I don't know many companies that would stand up to a purity test, especially when made more difficult by shunning profits. And I don't blame them for that. It's the real world. I do blame them for jacking up gate fees by a remarkable percentage to cover the costs of their mistakes.
I think that's prevelant in life in general, not just theme park boards.
Accessability to Social media and the internet continually makes more and more people - of younger and younger ages - able to get their thoughts out there. People of all social circles and education levels.
You also have to realise many fans can see beyond the pixie dust to the hard management ethics and how the parks are being run today. Tha same internet that allows people to broadcast their opinion also makes communicating directly with people.... in the know... possible. Many uber fans - and I'd count myself here - understand and want to understand how the parks work, why the parks work, who makes them work. And in doing so find out things they may find less than agreeable.
As an example, a regular fan may want to ride the golf ball coz it's fun. I want to know how the image capture, storage and transfer wifi network works and why it didn't work. That's what floats my boat. Everyone's different. But very few should be seen as being flat out wrong. Though a few constantly are
Agreed. I like some pixie dust, and I like to see behind it as well. Probably not as intricately as wifi networks and what not, but backstage, inside the attractions, etc. and the history of things as well.
I guess where it crosses a line for me is when a fan has unreasonable expectations regarding how Disney will regard their opinions. Should they be heard and considered? Sure. Great ideas can come from unexpected places. But should they have demands of management, throw fits, etc. - that crosses a line when you are a guest (a customer) and specifically not an employee, a stockholder, a business partner, etc.
I had a very specific image in mind when I opened my record store. It's not for everyone, and that's OK. It has morphed in some ways according to customer feedback. It has not morphed in other ways despite customer feedback. Specifically, we expanded the rock and hip-hop sections, but won't add a country, gospel, or classical department, and still favor above all else (specialize in) DJ stuff, dance music, soul music, etc.
For people to give me their feedback such as, "I'd love to see a country department" is valuable, and heard. But if I don't do that, then to hold me somehow accountable for not running my business according to their plans is not reasonable or valuable.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
I wish I could "love" this post. (Or at least use one of my phone emoji)
. Seriously, your post is the best thing I have ever read on a Disney fan site.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I've been trying to come up with a good way to break this all down and it is quite difficult as the far more interesting aspect is the sociology and psychology of the discussion, not the themed entertainment theory. It's a lot of rabbit holes but there are some interestingness common threads. Typicals include people spelling out a lack of caring about themed entertainment who then get angry when that is labeled a dislike of theme parks. Or a get at identifying branding as what is desired when trademarks are really the aspect of intellectual property that is being discussed. So lot of A = B = C, but you have to use A because C has a lot of baggage associated with it. It becomes a lot of versions of "How dare you say I'm not a Disney fan" when the issue is far more nuanced and, very ironically, the actual concept of what a theme park is is not one as defined by Disney, but a concept defined far more by Six Flags and to a lesser extent Universal Studios. Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom were not IP parks that distinguished themselves from other amusement parks by having IP. They were distinguished by their application of storytelling to the entire experience (what is now themed entertainment) and adding more IP to the other parks doesn't repeat the Magic Kingdom over and over, but these other non-Disney concepts that have always failed to replicate the emotional and cultural weight of Disney, reducing it to nothing more than branding. With that anger inducing commentary aside, I just leave the ridiculousness of the idea to one simple set of questions that I can periodically update.
Are people disappointed that Elsa is not in Moana? Don't people expect Disney characters in Disney movies?
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Hahahaha
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
Completely agree. And Universal chose to copy/chase Disney, while Six Flags chose not to do so. My "theme park" experience prior to Disney was many years of Six Flags/Great Adventure, which is one of the reasons why Disney completely blew me away on my first trip (which was as an adult.) I expected the same roller coasters with Mickey's face stickered on the cars. Mini-theaters - what?! All this detail within and outside of the rides, er, attractions - what?!
Yet it would be hard to argue the brand was not part of the draw, even at park open - whether specific characters or the Disney name itself. Disney was not unknown when DL opened. The implied assertion that DL would have been as successful if a similarly brilliant unknown Joe Schmoe opened it in the same location will forever be unproven. Knotts Berry Farm could be a hint, but having never been other than driving by, I presume it's more Six Flags than Universal.
Yes, yes, and yes. They invented it.
I'm not sure if you mean doesn't repeat the Magic of the Magic Kingdom, or isn't repetitive of the Magic Kingdom. I go with the latter.
And maybe this is a chicken or egg thing - but doesn't the character or movie develop that emotional and cultural weight to a far wider audience than the parks, and doesn't that initially draw so many people to the parks, looking to experience that emotional weight?
I understand another poster said he went to the parks first and developed an attachment to the parks before the movies. Wouldn't that be an odd exception?
OTOH, I developed an enhanced awareness of Disney after my first and subsequent visits. I may have been a fan of individual Disney projects and especially Mickey, Pooh, etc. as a kid. But I don't think I considered myself a Disney "fan" at the front of my brain and the tip of my tongue until after visiting the parks. That amplified my appreciation. So there's that nuance you mentioned.
And while I haven't seen it (yet) I expect and have heard the Harry Potter stuff at Uni is similar in emotional weight. That would be because of the movies for me, plain and simple. Same as I expect from Star Wars. I expect less from Pandora because I have no emotional attachment to that movie. But I don't doubt Disney can turn it into something at least appealing and possibly emotional, properly executed. They did it with Frozen, in which I had only minor interest and saw once. Just went on the ride a few days ago for the first time with low expectations, and was smiling like a little kid throughout, thoroughly entertained. That will have some emotional weight for me.
Will Frozen be another Snow White & The Seven Dwarfs? Or just a momentarily popular thing? Time will tell.
Here you lost me. I don't think that's a fitting analogy.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original name of Disneyland supposed to be "Mickey Mouse Park" before they came up with "Disneyland"? Also, Cinderella's castle was there on opening day, correct? They also had plenty of non-character content, but I'm struggling to see where the parks have ever been completely separate from the characters.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to point out it's actually Disney who's been "copying" Universal's big IP based land approach lately. They used to kind of do their own thing with things like Soarin' and Expedition Everest as the most recent examples, then Harry Potter happened. Also way back when Disney pushed to have D-MGMS open a year before USF.
It would also be because of the books. I expect Nintendo to be the same with emotional weight.
He's talking about letting creatives create. You wouldn't ask the people behind Moana to shove in Elsa, so why ask WDI and not trust them to create their own stories? As just one example.
Princess Leia
Well-Known Member
What happened?
danlb_2000
Premium Member
It's not really clear who started it first. Carsland was the first big IP land for Disney and it was announced before Wizarding World was, but the announcements were close enough together that both were probably in development at the same time.