Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

[NormC]

You said eight.

That quote from July 2017 was long before we knew they were getting Omega 10 cabins. It was thought that we were getting MGD 8 and then it was made clear we were getting new D-Line stuff in December 2017 by Lift Blog. Do I have to go back and edit? Keep reading through the 900+ pages. I posted multiple links to the 10 person cabins myself as did others.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I don't know. What is the hourly capacity of the Express line back and forth between MK and TTC? I bet the gondolas could easily handle it. I agree though that there is a huge appeal to the monorail. It is one of the reasons we bought our DVC points at Bay Lake Tower.

I thought people bought there so they can *walk* to the MK.

I thought Corless said they could cram 16 in a cabin if people stood between the seated 10.

They are Omega IV-10 Si 10 person cabins with space for 10 18 inch butts. Why would Disney want to put less in one?

Max is max and 10 is the max. Insiders have said the *plan* is to only put in 8. I'm guessing for guest comfort and because width-wise, European 10 is American 8.

Also, there will be no need to push them to the max unless a thousand people show up at the same station within 5 minutes of one another. That rarely happens. People string themselves out in a continuously arriving line of 2-4 people wide, and not a packed mob. Think of MK's people mover for comparison.

 

[NormC]

I thought people bought there so they can *walk* to the MK.

Actually I love the walk. But I am a big monorail fan. I tell friends that the Bay Lake Tower is my home and the Contemporary is my garage.

Max is max and 10 is the max. Insiders have said the *plan* is to only put in 8. I'm guessing for guest comfort and because width-wise, European 10 is American 8.

Also, there will be no need to push them to the max unless a thousand people show up at the same station within 5 minutes of one another. That rarely happens. People string themselves out in a continuously arriving line of 2-4 people wide, and not a packed mob. Think of MK's people mover for comparison.

I was being sarcastic about the 16. I know 10 is the max. That is what I stated above.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You should ride the monorails more often then. There has been a noticeable improvement in the past year and half when they started repainting and rehabbing them. It’s a very different attitude from years past. Credit where credit is due. (And I rarely give it to TDO.)

I agree:..maintenance is the key/answer to the monorails from an ops standpoint.

They have little to any incentive to spend money on replacements - it gains them. If you want monomials - best hope they start treating them like “treasures”

 

[danlb_2000]

I thought Corless said they could cram 16 in a cabin if people stood between the seated 10.

They are Omega IV-10 Si 10 person cabins with space for 10 18 inch butts. Why would Disney want to put less in one?

I doesn't look like there is anything in the cars to hold on to if you were standing.

 

[NormC]

I doesn't look like there is anything in the cars to hold on to if you were standing.

Correct. But we know Corless is really clueless or was it Jim Hill that said they would cram 16 in? I forget and I guess I should have used the sarcasm font.

I think it may have been Hill.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I doesn't look like there is anything in the cars to hold on to if you were standing.

I think we're supposed to do what Stitch does and lean our tongues against the window.

 

[montyz81]

Gondolas are slightly better than the Monorail at peak times and worlds ahead at off peak. People just don't seem to understand the concept of batching in here. Each train carries more than each gondola, but the dispatch rate of the gondola and cycle time is hundreds of times faster, resulting in a greater per hour capacity.

The oft cited "add more trains" argument just doesn't work, because the monorails simply take too long in the station to unload, load and dispatch, which just results in trains stuck at safety blocks. The monorail is fine for where it is, but its not a superior transport option for moving people...you can debate the look/feel/etc...all you want, but the gondola efficiency is just not a debate.

What this tells me is that the current Monorail system could theoretically be converted into a People Mover type system. The alteration required would likely include a modification of the top of the beam and an adjustment to the stations where a circular load/unload would need to be constructed. The result would be a similar capacity to the gondola with a similar aesthetic to the monorail all while getting rid of the point to point restriction of the gondola. My thought here is dependent on their ability to reuse the existing monorail track instead of a complete rebuild. I'd imagine the cars/trains would be far less expensive to construct and replace albeit not nearly as cheap as the gondola. Seems like the best of both worlds has been the Peoplemover all along.

 

[montyz81]

We know that the Skyliner is supposed to handle a max of 10 passengers per cabin and a cabin departs every 10 seconds. So that's 6 per minute x 60 minutes = 360 cabins per hour x 10 pax = 3600. This is great throughput!

I would expect that if there is a load issue the Gondola would stop too. How many strollers will have a hard time getting put on the gondola or into the gondola? How many of these on average will happen per hour. That should negatively impact that peak 3600 per hour. I do not ever see the gondola achieving that 3600 per hour due to the human factor.

 

[danlb_2000]

I would expect that if there is a load issue the Gondola would stop too. How many strollers will have a hard time getting put on the gondola or into the gondola? How many of these on average will happen per hour. That should negatively impact that peak 3600 per hour. I do not ever see the gondola achieving that 3600 per hour due to the human factor.

There would have to be a pretty serious loading problem to have to stop the main line.

 

[Goofyernmost]

But I thought Disney said they were only going to put 8 in a cabin?

I think they did or somebody did, but, I would be surprised if that many are loaded, but, this discussion is about capacity (they can hold 10 average bodies). Reality is what will actually happen to keep guests happy. Might even be less then 6 average. It is going to be hard to tell, because these things are going to be running constantly all day long. Sometimes they are going to run with two in the cabin and three or four completely empty following right behind during the slower times of the day. What is important is that they will run constantly and not just when the bus can get there. It is a short distance and I envision a fun, albeit short, ride to the two parks and three large resorts.

 

[monothingie]

***FOR FULL EFFECT PLAY THE YOUTUBE VIDEO WHILE READING THE POST***

New Monorail Thread Update Day 417: Provisions are running low after the last storm. We were forced to hunt the buffalo, but alas we could only take back 100 pounds of meat. We lost 2 oxen while fording the river at Shepards Pass and one of the covered wagons broke an axle during a surprise Indian attack. We are hoping that we can make it to Fort Washington before the rainy season peaks in 2 weeks, but we are doubtful. We desperately need provisions and ammunition for the trip ahead. Mother has a terrible cough and sister may have a bout of fever. This has been a hard trip since heading out from St Louis, but the choice to leave my wealthy position as a banker from Boston in hopes of finding new monorails upon the Oregon Trail is a noble quest. However thus far there have been none.

 

[NormC]

Disney did not say 8. Some of us did when we assumed they were using MGD-8 cabins. Once we found out they had purchased a D-line system with Omega IV-10-SI cabins we knew it was going to be 10. Disney still hasn't actually quoted a capacity that I could find (Correct me if I am wrong). They will be unlikely to stuff every cabin with 10. It will probably just be based on family or group sizes.

 

[Mickey5150]

Just rip the bodies off of the monorails, leave the drive system and just drop a bunch of gondola bodies on top. We get monorails and gondolas, everyone's happy.

 

[Skipper2]

What this tells me is that the current Monorail system could theoretically be converted into a People Mover type system. The alteration required would likely include a modification of the top of the beam and an adjustment to the stations where a circular load/unload would need to be constructed. The result would be a similar capacity to the gondola with a similar aesthetic to the monorail all while getting rid of the point to point restriction of the gondola. My thought here is dependent on their ability to reuse the existing monorail track instead of a complete rebuild. I'd imagine the cars/trains would be far less expensive to construct and replace albeit not nearly as cheap as the gondola. Seems like the best of both worlds has been the Peoplemover all along.

Alright, somebody finally has a worthy idea for replacement if we lose the monorails. First I LOVE MONORAILS!! So no hate there please. That said the throughput of a people mover system is way in excess of Gondolas and the Monorail. Even with a full reconfig of the beam tops as proposed and a covered system with a solar roof the cost is probably less (hopefully-I will research) than a monorail replacement fleet. Not to mention the PPL Mover is a more scalable system. The current count of 32 PPL Mover vehicles has a potential of 3800 riders per hour on a very small loop. Longer path = more ride vehicles and vastly larger numbers.

Point against the Gondola system is the weather. Try 60mph gust in Fl and COMFORT not safety becomes an issue. Gondolas sway in the wind as physics dictate. Probably never actually be a safety issue because the system would be shut down. That said the gust front of FL afternoon sea breeze convergence storms is sudden and is often severe with gusts in excess of 35mph regularly and 60 not a particularly unusual event. Bring a hose for the seasick types so the cabins can be washed out quickly. Let us not forget that lightning is a big weather issue for a aerial suspended system as well. You shut down Gondola ops for a 30-60 minute period for weather and your daily capacity and hourly capacity drop.

Short of a lightning stike on a monorail killing the system power weather is a non player, same for PPL Mover.

Personally I would keep the monorails on the RESORT and EPCOT line and use PPL Mover for the MK line

Shameless self promotion to follow
https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/making-the-tta-wedway-major-league.938536/

 

[MisterPenguin]

Point against the Gondola system is the weather. Try 60mph gust in Fl and COMFORT not safety becomes an issue. Gondolas sway in the wind as physics dictate. Probably never actually be a safety issue because the system would be shut down. That said the gust front of FL afternoon sea breeze convergence storms is sudden and is often severe with gusts in excess of 35mph regularly and 60 not a particularly unusual event. Bring a hose for the seasick types so the cabins can be washed out quickly. Let us not forget that lightning is a big weather issue for a aerial suspended system as well. You shut down Gondola ops for a 30-60 minute period for weather and your daily capacity and hourly capacity drop.

The ferries have the same issues for the same reasons and yet WDW survives.

Also, 60 mph gusts are not as frequent as you think.

Also, the gondolas' swaying won't nearly be as bad as you think.

 

[MaximumEd]

Also, the gondolas' swaying won't nearly be as bad as you think.

Speak for your own gondola there, buddy.

 

[s8film40]

The ferries have the same issues for the same reasons and yet WDW survives.

Yes, WDW survives during those times because they rely on the monorails.

 

[peter11435]

Yes, WDW survives during those times because they rely on the monorails.

Fingers crossed you get one with working ac.

 

[Skipper2]

The ferries have the same issues for the same reasons and yet WDW survives.

Also, 60 mph gusts are not as frequent as you think.

Also, the gondolas' swaying won't nearly be as bad as you think.

I have been living in CFL for almost my whole life. Last 60mph at MCO was last month May 4 and with events in April as well. Drop it to 50mph and the number increases dramatically. It will be interesting to know what WDW will post as the max wind for operations. My bet is 35mph and no lightning. While overseas I got to ride gondolas in the Alps for skiing (Garmisch Germany), and the high winds there are no fun in my experience. The Alpine systems use twin cables in a side by side (about 2ft apart) and they still sway a lot despite a wide support platform from the twin cables. I don't get motion sick so no biggie to me, but for drunken skiers on the way off the mountain it can be interesting, never saw anyone lose it but there were concerned looks.

Still in CFL lightning is an almost daily event in the summer. I like the Gondolas but they are far from a panacea for WDW transport. The would not handle the nightly post parade/fireworks departure surge at MK if incorporated there. At least not without building a waiting line, especially since that surge is loaded with strollers for the sleeping kids that just had to stay for those events. I do not expect it to be any worse a wait than the ferry or monorail during that surge to be fair. During fair weather and normal crowd loads they will be a relief to the overall guest movement where they are utilized.

To add complexity to this subject. New monorails mean better reliability as well as potnetial for greater capacity due to design changes, consequently increasing max per hour numbers. Others have mentioned why the current Innova design wont work (beam width). This is just a relatively minor engineering issue, not cheap mind you, but from an engineering stand point I imagine there are several ways around the size issue. New trains might also require redesigns of load ques resulting in faster loads and another increase in capacity. Even the openings at the Contemporary could be massaged to accomodate larger trains if needed, not cheap but from a "it can be done" standpoint enough money can find a solution.

Not saying the house of mouse will be likely to spend it. What I know is they wont abandon the monorail without removing it altogether and that wont be cheap and would be a net loss/loss situation. The system is iconic and does make WDW money even if not in a easily calculated figure. In the end they will replace or overhaul the existing systems with new or fully refurbished trains. Long term they really don't have a choice and all of us here know it. Timing is the question. If a contract has been made for new trains I doubt the manufacturers personnel will have the same discipline as WDW and WDWI insiders have on info. IF contracts exist I expect we would know by now. So again timing. I bet delivery after 2025 IMHO with a contract announcement made after the anniversary. They run and most guests don't see what we see, and even the ones that notice don't raise too much of a fuss for WDW right now.

I hope I am wrong and we get them much sooner. Someone track down design/accountant people at Bombardier and Toyota, or Honda, etc and please find us a contract.