Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

[Disone]

A friend who works in WDW Transportation explained to me one day that the trains are formally considered a part of transportation, and that they're not a "ride" in the conventional sense. The reasoning was that someone could board a train at one point in the park and disembark at a completely different station, whereas for a ride, they'd be boarding and leaving from essentially the same place.

The Walt Disney World railroad is an attraction. It is run by attraction cast members. It's managers are attraction managers. The managers of the Walt Disney World Transportation system do not manage the Walt Disney World Railroad.

If the Walt Disney World railroad has to be closed it is listed as "attractions closed today" at the Magic Kingdom. It also has the historic note of being the Magic Kingdom's first operating attraction.

It most definitely can be used as Transportation within the park. You can definitely get on at one spot and move to another. But at the end of the day it is considered an attraction.

 

[monothingie]

The Walt Disney World railroad is an attraction. It is run by attraction cast members. It's managers are attraction managers. The managers of the Walt Disney World Transportation system do not manage the Walt Disney World Railroad.

If the Walt Disney World railroad has to be closed it is listed as "attractions closed today" at the Magic Kingdom. It also has the historic note of being the Magic Kingdom's first operating attraction.

It most definitely can be used as Transportation within the park. You can definitely get on at one spot and move to another. But at the end of the day it is considered an attraction.

OMG stop. Next thing you two are going to be arguing how the deck chairs should have been arranged on the Titanic.

 

[V_L_Raptor]

The Walt Disney World railroad is an attraction. It is run by attraction cast members. It's managers are attraction managers. The managers of the Walt Disney World Transportation system do not manage the Walt Disney World Railroad.

If the Walt Disney World railroad has to be closed it is listed as "attractions closed today" at the Magic Kingdom. It also has the historic note of being the Magic Kingdom's first operating attraction.

It most definitely can be used as Transportation within the park. You can definitely get on at one spot and move to another. But at the end of the day it is considered an attraction.

Do you need to go drink your juice and have a cookie, or something...?

 

[GhostHost1000]

OMG stop. Next thing you two are going to be arguing how the deck chairs should have been arranged on the Titanic.

or how the yeti ...
or spectromagic...

nevermind

 

[twilight mitsuk]

The Walt Disney World railroad is an attraction. It is run by attraction cast members. It's managers are attraction managers. The managers of the Walt Disney World Transportation system do not manage the Walt Disney World Railroad.

If the Walt Disney World railroad has to be closed it is listed as "attractions closed today" at the Magic Kingdom. It also has the historic note of being the Magic Kingdom's first operating attraction.

It most definitely can be used as Transportation within the park. You can definitely get on at one spot and move to another. But at the end of the day it is considered an attraction.

Like the friendship boats at epcot

 

[Disone]

OMG stop. Next thing you two are going to be arguing how the deck chairs should have been arranged on the Titanic.

?????? You feeling okay.

 

[Disone]

Do you need to go drink your juice and have a cookie, or something...?

Nope. I was not meaning to be snarky. Just stating the facts. Sorry if it came across otherwise.

 

[Disone]

Like the friendship boats at epcot

I think so. Though honestly unlike the WDWRR I do not have first hand knowledge of its set up.

This post was a strange post for me. I was just posting to clarify, or to give the correct answer to something i happen to know, and several people seem to be quite upset by that. Accusing me of being snarky or angry. So to everyone out there I was not. I just happen to know what the correct answer is on this one. That is all nothing more. Sorry if it came across as anything else.

 

[s8film40]

The Walt Disney World railroad is an attraction. It is run by attraction cast members. It's managers are attraction managers. The managers of the Walt Disney World Transportation system do not manage the Walt Disney World Railroad.

If the Walt Disney World railroad has to be closed it is listed as "attractions closed today" at the Magic Kingdom. It also has the historic note of being the Magic Kingdom's first operating attraction.

It most definitely can be used as Transportation within the park. You can definitely get on at one spot and move to another. But at the end of the day it is considered an attraction.

It is from an operations perspective considered an attraction but it is also considered transportation. It’s transportation being used as an attraction it’s really not that complicated.

 

[Disone]

It is from an operations perspective considered an attraction but it is also considered transportation. It’s transportation being used as an attraction it’s really not that complicated.

Perfect. It seems that people have a dog in this fight I did not anticipate so I'm going to bow out.

 

[s8film40]

Perfect. It seems that people have a dog in this fight I did not anticipate so I'm going to bow out.

I was jus stating facts. There’s just different perspectives at looking at it they’re both right.

 

[Lensman]

Not to beat a dead horse about bus prices, but I found another datapoint in another thread. Here's the original posts in this thread:

This was the web site
http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=297944

$300k would be the low end of the current market. Of course, there are a huge number of variables when purchasing a custom product, including both options and how badly the company wants the business. A Disney 40' transit bus isn't a basic product either, there are are number of Disney specifics like a rear wheelchair ramp that aren't common in the industry. Disney isn't a huge purchaser either, their buses tend to last a long time on the road as a result of the driving conditions, which are not very harsh. On the scale of transit bus orders, 20 buses a year (350 buses/18 year lifespan) isn't a huge purchase.

I don't know what transit agency the numbers are from, but one thought is that they might be Canadian $. They fall more into line if you take that into account.

For a transit bus, $300k is very, very low end in today's market. in 2014, the New York MTA paid $496,267 each for 45 40' transit buses. These buses would be equipped similarily to a Disney bus: middle of the road in options, basic diesel power, no unnecessary frills. CAD/AVL systems for tracking the buses and automatic announcements are usually not included in that price. The NYMTA is a massive purchaser, so they have the economies of scale working for them, and their orders are highly competitive for New Flyer and Nova.

In short, restricting our comparison to only 40' transit buses equipped in a basic manner, a new Disney bus likely costs over half a million dollars delivered, and even more to equip the systems like Clever Devices and include tools, parts and training specific to the vehicle that is often included. Buses are cheap compared to trains sure, but that's because a large part of the infrastructure already exists in the form of roads. The vehicles themselves aren't where you find savings.

And I found this post in the Epcot Center/Buena Vista Drive Interchange Project thread.

Numberswise..... in 2013, TriMet (in Oregon) authorized $18m to buy 40 of the low-floor 30' diesel bus, same model that Disney operates. Works out to $465k/bus. Probably closer to a half-million per bus for the mouse because they don't buy 40 at a time... more like 10.

Carry on!

Note: At least everyone agrees that the buses are not an attraction!

 

[Disone]

I was jus stating facts. There’s just different perspectives at looking at it they’re both right.

As was I. There is nothing in my post that is not fact and nothing that is a flame and yet it really got me flamed. I don't get that at all.

It is what it is.

 

[s8film40]

As was I. There is nothing in my post that is not fact and nothing that is a flame and yet it really got me flamed. I don't get that at all.

It is what it is.

No, I think people just get caught up in classifying transportation and attractions separately. Everything you said was accurate. It’s possible for things to be both transportation and an attraction. It’s all about context. If someone said they were looking for a job working with the trains it would be appropriate to refer them to an attractions position. If someone were creating a list of rail transportation systems in Florida it would be appropriate to include the WDW railroad.

 

[Lensman]

As was I. There is nothing in my post that is not fact and nothing that is a flame and yet it really got me flamed. I don't get that at all.

It is what it is.

No, I think people just get caught up in classifying transportation and attractions separately. Everything you said was accurate. It’s possible for things to be both transportation and an attraction. It’s all about context. If you someone said they were looking for a job working with the trains it would be appropriate to refer them to an attractions position. If some Be were creating a list of rail transportation systems in Florida it would be appropriate to include the WDW railroad.

I'm tearing up, guys...

Such mutual respect and understanding. There's hope for this board yet!

You're both model citizens!

 

[lawdogNOLA]

This post is so very wrong. The steam locomotives are "actual working locomotives." And they do carry tens of thousands of people every day. They are most definitely and indisputably a transportation system.

Well, I have to say that 1) I misspoke as in no way did I intend to imply that the steam locomotives are not "actual working locomotives". Of course they're "actual working locomotives", and I and my family have used them for transportation around the Magic Kingdom since 1974. It carries an average of just over 10,000 passengers a day, or roughly 3.7 million riders a year.

2) It's still apples and oranges. What I was approaching my post was from the perspective of what these locomotives hauled back in the Yucatan when they were not on a closed railroad system that is an attraction ride at the world's premiere theme park. The weights they were rated to haul and what they presently haul shows that the locomotives are on milk runs now. This was all as a comparison to what duties the monorails have for transportation comparing with the argument that if the locomotives could be kept running indefinitely, so could the monorails - that there was no need for new monorails, 28 years after they'd last been replaced.

Oh, and the monorail? It carries an average of over 150,000 passengers a day, for somewhere over 55,000,000 riders a year.

So, nothing but love to the Walt Disney World Railroad from me. I just don't believe that you can compare the maintenance of the locomotives to what is needed to be done with the monorail. I believe, firmly, that the monorails need to be replaced with completely new monorails, and that is the sole point I was trying to make.

 

[Disone]

Well, I have to say that 1) I misspoke as in no way did I intend to imply that the steam locomotives are not "actual working locomotives". Of course they're "actual working locomotives", and I and my family have used them for transportation around the Magic Kingdom since 1974. It carries an average of just over 10,000 passengers a day, or roughly 3.7 million riders a year.

2) It's still apples and oranges. What I was approaching my post was from the perspective of what these locomotives hauled back in the Yucatan when they were not on a closed railroad system that is an attraction ride at the world's premiere theme park. The weights they were rated to haul and what they presently haul shows that the locomotives are on milk runs now. This was all as a comparison to what duties the monorails have for transportation comparing with the argument that if the locomotives could be kept running indefinitely, so could the monorails - that there was no need for new monorails, 28 years after they'd last been replaced.

Oh, and the monorail? It carries an average of over 150,000 passengers a day, for somewhere over 55,000,000 riders a year.

So, nothing but love to the Walt Disney World Railroad from me. I just don't believe that you can compare the maintenance of the locomotives to what is needed to be done with the monorail. I believe, firmly, that the monorails need to be replaced with completely new monorails, and that is the sole point I was trying to make.

I like your numbers. Sincerely, a fun read. I was the one that stated that with proper maintenance they could have lived on indefinitely. I did compare them to the Walt Disney World locomotives. The maintenance of a steam engine and all of its working parts, has got to be a lot more labor-intensive then a monorail. Just my guess.

There are plenty of mass transportation systems around the world with trains that are older than Walt Disney World Monorails and are in far better condition. And I'm not talking about trains that are doing light traffic. Look at Vancouver SkyTrain system. This system hosts over 450k a day and within its massive fleet still has over 100 light weight cars that have been in use since 1986.

That all said my point is somewhat moot because regardless of whether WDW gave them the best maintenance possible, or whether they didn't give them the best, I agree with you wholeheartedly that they are now in an condition that requires monorail fleet replacement..... not refurbishment.

I was talking / hoping more about the replacement monorails. WDW should invest in the maintenance of that Fleet so that the new Fleet could last longer than the current Fleet did.

 

[esskay]

The maintenance of a steam engine and all of its working parts, has got to be a lot more labor-intensive then a monorail. Just my guess.

There are plenty of mass transportation systems around the world with trains that are older than Walt Disney World Monorails and are in far better condition.

It still comes back to the problem of how the monorails were constructed. They're made of carbon fiber. That is significantly weaker over time, and a lot harder to patch up / maintain than a steal frame.

Sure, if the new monorails are constructed to last it'll be great, but that was never going to happen with the current fleet.

We're also still not comparing accurately even if you ignore that. The steam locomotives are mechanical. The monorail is electronic, and electronic components don't last a fraction of the time.

 

[ABQ]

It still comes back to the problem of how the monorails were constructed. They're made of carbon fiber. That is significantly weaker over time, and a lot harder to patch up / maintain than a steal frame.

Sure, if the new monorails are constructed to last it'll be great, but that was never going to happen with the current fleet.

We're also still not comparing accurately even if you ignore that. The steam locomotives are mechanical. The monorail is electronic, and electronic components don't last a fraction of the time.

Carbon fiber? Are you sure? Not fiberglass?

 

[Disone]

It still comes back to the problem of how the monorails were constructed. They're made of carbon fiber. That is significantly weaker over time, and a lot harder to patch up / maintain than a steal frame.

Sure, if the new monorails are constructed to last it'll be great, but that was never going to happen with the current fleet.

We're also still not comparing accurately even if you ignore that. The steam locomotives are mechanical. The monorail is electronic, and electronic components don't last a fraction of the time.

Okay. Lets forget the steam engines for a moment. The monorails are electric AND have plenty of mechanical parts. The Vancouver SkyTrain system I mentioned earlier is also Electric. It has 30 plus year old trains running very efficiently. And reliably. And not just a token one or two, they are a significant part of the fleet.

Of all the issues with the monorail the fiberglass bodies are not high on my list of issue. They need to be cleaned and or repainted, but they are doing that now. Well repainting at least.

I am still of the opinion they could have lasted much longer had they had a more robust maintenance schedule. Of course I'm also of the opinion that it's too late now to save these trains. And even if it wasn't, at this point I'm let's just get a new Fleet please.