Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

[Jonathan Wang]

Not sure what you mean, but I want to clearify that I think those times are the normal run times now and not the exception. There was no notable delay in the operation in either case. It was just the pacing. In the case of the resort ride, it did hold between MK and Contemp, and again between Poly and Grand but both were short holds. Perhaps it could have done the trip in 20 minutes instead of 22, but the 22 minute trip time also did not include the station time of at MK itself.

What’s funny is I think I’ve resulted in longer rides and hold times since the automation was put in.

 

[Disone]

im sure it was mentioned already from what i was reading since this was posted, but sounds like a power change on the beams... and if so that wouldnt allow for a train by train change... at the same time im curious if they would make the trains run faster than the current fleet to accomodate for the current rate of people at the parks.

Less time for the trains to arrive the better for the turnaround on guests.... and of course this can all be safe/timed properly via the automated systems.

If anyone here has been to japan, they have the subways BLOW through stations quite safely. I'm sure disney could do something of the same.

Not sure if faster would be better on the Express Beam and Resort line, as both already have too many traffic holds, mostly just due to your train catching up to the train ahead of it.

But the Epcot line..... man I would to see it run faster. I think that would be great. I suspect vibrations is the reason they don't, but still, would love to see a 55mph spirit along the long straightaway parallel to World Drive.

 

[Disone]

What’s funny is I think I’ve resulted in longer rides and hold times since the automation was put in.

totally agreed yes.

 

[Jonathan Wang]

Not sure if faster would be better on the Express Beam and Resort line, as both already have too many traffic holds, mostly just due to your train catching up to the train ahead of it.

But the Epcot line..... man I would to see it run faster. I think that would be great. I suspect vibrations is the reason they don't, but still, would love to see a 55mph spirit along the long straightaway parallel to World Drive.

Well remember those monorails were designed well past 30 years ago. So I doubt they were built for anything that fast. I’m sure with new age tech we can have comfortable and fast monorails. I mean look at bullet trains.... those things are super comfortable, if you never ridden one go do it when you get a chance

 

[s8film40]

Not sure what you mean, but I want to clearify that I think those times are the normal run times now and not the exception. There was no notable delay in the operation in either case. It was just the pacing. In the case of the resort ride, it did hold between MK and Contemp, and again between Poly and Grand but both were short holds. Perhaps it could have done the trip in 20 minutes instead of 22, but the 22 minute trip time also did not include the station time of at MK itself.

It varies a lot and fluctuates throughout the day. There's always a bit of a big push at peak times and I'm sure that still exists even if they don't get the number they used to. We were discussing maximum capacity and that's really more a discussion of potential rather than actual. I used conservative numbers, that I've personally seen beat by a decent margin, but that doesn't mean there aren't going to be slower times. One time I was going to the Contemporary, should've been a fairly short ride from TTC, but then I had to wait 15 minutes at the MK because the driver of the train ahead had to go downstairs to get coffee, just an exaggerated example of how real world results can vary.

Yea I agree however if they time the automation right I think they could do it. In japan if a train is 30 seconds late they are apologizing. It’s about how they implement it. If they follow how japan has done it, I think it would help.

Also I should clarify they should speed up the Epcot line.

Well remember those monorails were designed well past 30 years ago. So I doubt they were built for anything that fast. I’m sure with new age tech we can have comfortable and fast monorails. I mean look at bullet trains.... those things are super comfortable, if you never ridden one go do it when you get a chance

Yeah Epcot is where it could be a benefit. It's not a technical issue it's a safety and rider comfort issue. The current trains could easily go faster. The thing is they have to consider not just how fast is too fast for normal riding, but how fast is too fast for a passenger standing maybe not even holding a hand rail when the train gets an E-stop.

 

[Jonathan Wang]

It varies a lot and fluctuates throughout the day. There's always a bit of a big push at peak times and I'm sure that still exists even if they don't get the number they used to. We were discussing maximum capacity and that's really more a discussion of potential rather than actual. I used conservative numbers, that I've personally seen beat by a decent margin, but that doesn't mean there aren't going to be slower times. One time I was going to the Contemporary, should've been a fairly short ride from TTC, but then I had to wait 15 minutes at the MK because the driver of the train ahead had to go downstairs to get coffee, just an exaggerated example of how real world results can vary.


Yeah Epcot is where it could be a benefit. It's not a technical issue it's a safety and rider comfort issue. The current trains could easily go faster. The thing is they have to consider not just how fast is too fast for normal riding, but how fast is too fast for a passenger standing maybe not even holding a hand rail when the train gets an E-stop.

Oh I absolutely agree with safety but I’m sure with modern advances they can find a way to get it done

 

[Disone]

Well remember those monorails were designed well past 30 years ago. So I doubt they were built for anything that fast. I’m sure with new age tech we can have comfortable and fast monorails. I mean look at bullet trains.... those things are super comfortable, if you never ridden one go do it when you get a chance

Agree. bullet trains that are different ball of wax. They're actually have been around 7 years to the day longer then WDW. The Japanese bullet trains began service on October 1st of 1964 with speeds exceeding 130mph. They are much faster now.

Shirley a new generation of monorail trains could also be faster than the current generation. But they are also rubber tires Rolling Along concrete beans which has more limitations and vibration opportunities then steel wheels on steel tracks of the actual bullet trains. Now Walt Disney World had build a maglev line instead

 

[s8film40]

Oh I absolutely agree with safety but I’m sure with modern advances they can find a way to get it done

Agree. bullet trains that are different ball of wax. They're actually have been around 7 years to the day longer then WDW. The Japanese bullet trains began service on October 1st of 1964 with speeds exceeding 130mph. They are much faster now.

Shirley a new generation of monorail trains could also be faster than the current generation. But they are also rubber tires Rolling Along concrete beans which has more limitations and vibration opportunities then steel wheels on steel tracks of the actual bullet trains. Now Walt Disney World had build a maglev line instead

It's not a technical issue it's a decision. The current trains can go faster right now if they wanted to.

 

[Jonathan Wang]

Agree. bullet trains that are different ball of wax. They're actually have been around 7 years to the day longer then WDW. The Japanese bullet trains began service on October 1st of 1964 with speeds exceeding 130mph. They are much faster now.

Shirley a new generation of monorail trains could also be faster than the current generation. But they are also rubber tires Rolling Along concrete beans which has more limitations and vibration opportunities then steel wheels on steel tracks of the actual bullet trains. Now Walt Disney World had build a maglev line instead

Well I mean I didn’t even ride the japan one I rode the Chinese one which wasn’t even maglev.

Also to accommodate for the suspension travel for the tire on the beam you could add air suspension to make it feel smoother. (This isn’t new tech)

 

[Jonathan Wang]

It's not a technical issue it's a decision. The current trains can go faster right now if they wanted to.

Well I meant with a safe e stop going faster. Hence why we are slower now

 

[s8film40]

Well I meant with a safe e stop going faster. Hence why we are slower now

I mean you really can't change physics. Stopping at a higher rate of speed is going to have a certain force you can't get around that. It's not even so much just a safety issue it's also about guests complaining.

 

[Jonathan Wang]

I mean you really can't change physics. Stopping at a higher rate of speed is going to have a certain force you can't get around that. It's not even so much just a safety issue it's also about guests complaining.

Yes we can’t change physics itself but what I’m getting at is how they can dampen the force of it. Or they end up doing more seating in a better configuration so they could e stop faster. Idk, it just seems that increasing the speed of the Epcot line or adding trains at least would help that route.

Just my 2 cents haha

 

[s8film40]

Yes we can’t change physics itself but what I’m getting at is how they can dampen the force of it. Or they end up doing more seating in a better configuration so they could e stop faster. Idk, it just seems that increasing the speed of the Epcot line or adding trains at least would help that route.

Just my 2 cents haha

An e-stop is a stop at all costs kind of thing. You don't dampen that. Imagine what would happen if there was a collision or accident and it was revealed the e-stop was dampened to make more comfortable e-stops. Anyway I agree with you they should go a little faster on Epcot. The Vegas monorail does and they're very similar trains. I just don't really think they will because they're taking into account tourists, strollers, kids and of course the willingness of Disney guests to complain.

 

[Jonathan Wang]

An e-stop is a stop at all costs kind of thing. You don't dampen that. Imagine what would happen if there was a collision or accident and it was revealed the e-stop was dampened to make more comfortable e-stops. Anyway I agree with you they should go a little faster on Epcot. The Vegas monorail does and they're very similar trains. I just don't really think they will because they're taking into account tourists, strollers, kids and of course the willingness of Disney guests to complain.

I just cant see how they can bring the argument of comfort-ability when it comes to safety... then again I'm not illogical and know whats important. Disney guests will complain about anything though.

and when i mean like dampen it i mean like lets say you e stop the nose will probably lean forwards/down, you could have air suspension counter act that force of it going down, which could help a slight bit. i'm not saying making it come to a stop slower.

 

[msg7]

I've heard people talking with CMs say that the monorails have needed much more maintenance on the drive system ever since the automation was installed.... They must find a way to stop the jerkiness from the power to braking transition... However, as some of you have mentioned, there are various limitations which prevent this but I have a feeling that they can do it... I'll try to come up with a diagram this week of the current transition points vs. possible new ones...

 

[Jonathan Wang]

I've heard people talking with CMs say that the monorails have needed much more maintenance on the drive system ever since the automation was installed.... They must find a way to stop the jerkiness from the power to braking transition... However, as some of you have mentioned, there are various limitations which prevent this but I have a feeling that they can do it... I'll try to come up with a diagram this week of the current transition points vs. possible new ones...

Well the automation system is very abrupt right now hence why it would require more maintenance. If they just slowed to a stop vs sudden changes it wouldn’t impact the trains as much as they do now

 

[msg7]

Well the automation system is very abrupt right now hence why it would require more maintenance. If they just slowed to a stop vs sudden changes it wouldn’t impact the trains as much as they do now

The driver used to have manual control of the throttle (yes, I know, it has a different proper name.. @s8film40, I need you here lol...) which allowed them to shift into 5 power increments, neutral (coast), and 4 braking increments. They had so much more control over the speed and control of the train which allowed them to gently bring the train to a stop... They could bring the train down from neutral to b1 without much jerkiness while on the other hand, the Thales system probably jolts the train down into b2 or 3 immediately... Plus, when entering and exiting stations, for some reason, the Thales system lets the train speed up to about 10 mph and then shifts into neutral which makes for a very jerky ride.... With automation, I'm assuming that they can program it to give a very smooth ride similar to manual control.. I'm just not sure why they haven't yet....

 

[s8film40]

The driver used to have manual control of the throttle (yes, I know, it has a different proper name.. @s8film40, I need you here lol...) which allowed them to shift into 5 power increments, neutral (coast), and 4 braking increments. They had so much more control over the speed and control of the train which allowed them to gently bring the train to a stop... They could bring the train down from neutral to b1 without much jerkiness while on the other hand, the Thales system probably jolts the train down into b2 or 3 immediately... Plus, when entering and exiting stations, for some reason, the Thales system lets the train speed up to about 10 mph and then shifts into neutral which makes for a very jerky ride.... With automation, I'm assuming that they can program it to give a very smooth ride similar to manual control.. I'm just not sure why they haven't yet....

The old system didn't really have direct control over throttle and braking. It's kind of hard to explain or understand if you haven't used it yourself, but I've always described it as like trying to drive with cruise control (like in a car). For example if you shift into P5 you're not really applying power to the motors but telling the computer you would like to go 40MPH. The train then does it's thing to make that happen, it will accelerate right away and start tapering off as it reaches 40. Same for other propulsion settings, braking etc. After a while you kind of just got a feel for it and could predict what was going to happen, but everything you did to control it kind of had a delayed affect. But yeah, you would actually go straight to P5 or B4 in a lot of instances and the computer made that more gentle despite most pilots wishes. I have no idea what the automation system is doing, personally I would've thought that it would be smoother and more precise.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Ah, I see I think your monorail math is just way off.

I’ll break it down for you. Express monorail should cycle 4 trains every 9 minutes and resort monorail should cycle 4 trains every 12 minutes.

So express let’s just say they’re having a slow day and say 10 minutes for easier math. That’s 4 trains 6 times each hour 24 trains an hour so 8,640 passengers.

Then resorts let’s again make a more rounded and conservative number and say they’re going slow with 15 minute cycles. So that’s 4 trains 4 times per hour, 16 total trains per hour for 5,760 passenger.

Adding both of those together gives us a total capacity of 14,400 per hour at the MK.

Isn't that backward. The express monorail makes two stops TTC and MK. The resort monorail stops at TTC, Poly, Grand Floridian, MK and the Contemporary. On the way back it stops at Contemporary, TTC, Poly, GF and MK. How can four trains recycle (I assume that means make the loop) in 9 minutes and the Express in 12? I'm going by your numbers I don't have a clue if they are correct or not no matter where you apply them, but, I think people are just throwing out numbers without any real concern about accuracy or even the slightest touch of reality. Also the resort trains are not running full trains even at closing, I know I have used them. If you stay at the GF it is probably quicker to take the boat.

 

[s8film40]

Isn't that backward. The express monorail makes two stops TTC and MK. The resort monorail stops at TTC, Poly, Grand Floridian, MK and the Contemporary. On the way back it stops at Contemporary, TTC, Poly, GF and MK. How can four trains recycle (I assume that means make the loop) in 9 minutes and the Express in 12? I'm going by your numbers I don't have a clue if they are correct or not no matter where you apply them, but, I think people are just throwing out numbers without any real concern about accuracy or even the slightest touch of reality. Also the resort trains are not running full trains even at closing, I know I have used them. If you stay at the GF it is probably quicker to take the boat.

I think you just misread my post I said 9 mitutes for express and 12 for resort. Resort takes longer because like you said of the extra stops. I didn't just pull these numbers out of the air it's from my 10 years of experience working with these trains. Everything varies of course but those would be considered good middle of the road cycle times. I was also using them to estimate the theoretical capacity of the lines, so that's the reasonable capacity of what it can handle, but like you said not actual real world results. It's also very rare (short of some Brazilian groups) for a train to actually achieve it's 360 passenger capacity.