Kamikaze
Well-Known Member
Not due to age, but the DL track has been re-routed numerous times, and is planned to be so again for Disneyland Forward. So yes.
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Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?
- Thread starter iHeartDisneylandCats
- Start date
So do they reuse the old segments when they re-route the track, or did they just move the buildings and things around the existing track layout?
Disone
Well-Known Member
They tore down the old track and built the new track where the reroute was needed.
It's called Google... use it. It's this amazing new thing that can lead you to answers. Now carefully consider the sites you utilize, and verify their authenticity. Research and trade journals through EBSCO are accurate and best.
It was $150 MILLION per mile in 2013.
Yesterland.com: Million Dollar-per-Mile Monorail?
www.yesterland.com
Disone
Well-Known Member
Google it up yourself is never an answer. It's typically the answer when someone doesn't have the answer.
Like him, I was genuinely interested in more information. I did try Google it as you suggested, however it didn't quite pop up quite as easily as you implied would.
He asked a valid question. If you can't provide a link to support your facts, then the snark is not needed nor valid.
You have provided a link to the cost of building monorail track, you have not provided any significant information as to the cost of maintaining existing monorail track.
castlecake2.0
Well-Known Member
That does not show how much it costs to maintain the system
Ok, Google....
cost of monorail track maintenance - Google Search
www.google.com
None of these links provide:
1. Cost of maintaining the track of a monorail system as a separate line item apart from the system as a whole.
2. Cost of maintaining the track of WDW monorail system specifically.
Neither do these links:You seem to know the upkeep costs of the track of the WDW monorail system. That cost you say, is why its "days are numbered."
So, clearly, you know that cost. What is it?
mysto
Well-Known Member
The cost of riding the monorail: free. (-ish)
The cost of maintaining the track: $1 per cubic cubit per Jovian year.
The value of having a monorail: priceless.
You may have to google Jovian year and cubit. Converting to corporate balance sheet pennies per second per drop of blood is complicated explaining why no one has done it. Trade secret.
The cost of maintaining the track: $1 per cubic cubit per Jovian year.
The value of having a monorail: priceless.
You may have to google Jovian year and cubit. Converting to corporate balance sheet pennies per second per drop of blood is complicated explaining why no one has done it. Trade secret.
Each monorail system is unique - based on length and ridership, and age of infrastructure - and operating costs are kept close to the vest. The Jacksonville Skyline costs $19 million per year to operate and maintain 2.5 miles of track (2022 dollars; this year's inflationary pressures have made that number skyrocket). That's $7.6 million per mile.
Disney has 14.7 miles of monorail track. Based on Jacksonville (which is a newer system), that would put Disney's cost per year at $111,000,000 per year for monorail maintenance. That's a lot of money, but not when compared to Disney's roughly $71 BILLION in operating costs each year. No small potatoes but that $111 million cost is less than 1/5 of 1% of Disney's overall operating cost.
Still, the bean counters can't be happy with maintaining a system that provides zero rate of return, especially when operating gondolas (which require cable and steel pylons, not concrete beams, to maintain).
www.macrotrends.net
en.wikipedia.org
Disney has 14.7 miles of monorail track. Based on Jacksonville (which is a newer system), that would put Disney's cost per year at $111,000,000 per year for monorail maintenance. That's a lot of money, but not when compared to Disney's roughly $71 BILLION in operating costs each year. No small potatoes but that $111 million cost is less than 1/5 of 1% of Disney's overall operating cost.
Still, the bean counters can't be happy with maintaining a system that provides zero rate of return, especially when operating gondolas (which require cable and steel pylons, not concrete beams, to maintain).
After 20 years, Jacksonville Skyway remains a punchline
The Skyway has been a Jacksonville joke for a generation. But the underachieving, 2.5-mile elevated people mover that first opened in 1989 isn't all that funny. Look up at its silent, almost-empt…
www.jacksonville.com
Disney Operating Expenses 2010-2024 | DIS
Disney annual/quarterly operating expenses history and growth rate from 2010 to 2024. Operating expenses can be defined as the sum of all operating expenses for the given industry. <ul style='margin-top:10px;'> <li>Disney operating expenses for the quarter ending September 30...
www.macrotrends.net
Walt Disney World Monorail System - Wikipedia
muddyrivers
Well-Known Member
I realize it probably doesn't factor into the bean counters' calculations but the monorail can continue to operate in adverse weather conditions whereas the gondolas are more sensitive to changing weather and can't. Also from a comfort/safety point of view, I feel much more comfortable riding the monorail than I do the gondolas.
I took my first gondola ride a couple months ago and I was counting down until we got to the first stop so I could get off. The monorail I could ride on for hours!
Totally agree... but Disney seems all about rate-of-return these days. Walt's vision and customer enjoyment be damned.
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
I get the Monorail is (or is becoming) prohibitively expensive to operate. I am not sure what WDW’s solution is: they created this insular bubble and spread their resorts and parks all throughout their property. I can’t imagine what the labor costs are alone for all the continuous bus routes they offer. I just don’t know how you start reconfiguring or removing some modes of transportation without some pretty significant disruption. Like, how much less valuable do the Monorail resorts become if there’s no more Monorail? How many buses are you running from those resorts to EPCOT?
itsy bitsy spider
Well-Known Member
They'll be saying the same rumors about a "New Monorail" for the next 10 years too. They're like Watto from Phantom Menace they only like money.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I, on the other hand, could spend the day riding the gondola's. Individual likes and dislikes vary, but it appears based on public reaction that both the Monorail and the Gondola's are an important part of the experience and therefore do indeed have a value. One of the first additions to Disneyland were the Gondola's (Skyway), so I guess they were part of Walt's vision. And from my recollection, a popular one.
pdude81
Well-Known Member
My assumption on why they don't operate gondolas in lightning is because you couldn't rescue someone if the system was stopped without an additional giant metal bucket. This is conjecture only but they certainly are safe to operate in that kind of weather as long as winds aren't too high. Perhaps scaring your guests half to death if a tower is struck would also be frowned upon, though I think it would be pretty cool to ride a gondola in a thunderstorm.
As for the monorails, they certainly cost a good amount of money to operate, but monorail resorts are substantially more expensive per night, for cash bookings. And when they mix in DVC at those resorts they get to hand of a good chunk of those transportation costs to people who are already on the hook for payment.
I really don't see them getting rid of the monorails. IMO it would be really dumb to do that. I do, however, understand why they don't want to expand the monorail lines out to other places that don't have it yet.
As for the monorails, they certainly cost a good amount of money to operate, but monorail resorts are substantially more expensive per night, for cash bookings. And when they mix in DVC at those resorts they get to hand of a good chunk of those transportation costs to people who are already on the hook for payment.
I really don't see them getting rid of the monorails. IMO it would be really dumb to do that. I do, however, understand why they don't want to expand the monorail lines out to other places that don't have it yet.
Driverless buses are coming. It will be interesting to see how much Disney saves on labor costs for drivers.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I know that driverless is the new black, but I don't see Disney going to that until they are completely perfected and are unable to have an accident failure. I don't see that happening for decades yet and will require every vehicle to be driverless because once you add a human to the scenario it will be like waiting for the next stupid human trick to enter the scene. Even then if there is an override switch involved it will be catastrophic before very long.
Disone
Well-Known Member
First, I appreciate your more sincere attempt to engage in this conversation. Thank you.Each monorail system is unique - based on length and ridership, and age of infrastructure - and operating costs are kept close to the vest. The Jacksonville Skyline costs $19 million per year to operate and maintain 2.5 miles of track (2022 dollars; this year's inflationary pressures have made that number skyrocket). That's $7.6 million per mile.
Disney has 14.7 miles of monorail track. Based on Jacksonville (which is a newer system), that would put Disney's cost per year at $111,000,000 per year for monorail maintenance. That's a lot of money, but not when compared to Disney's roughly $71 BILLION in operating costs each year. No small potatoes but that $111 million cost is less than 1/5 of 1% of Disney's overall operating cost.
Still, the bean counters can't be happy with maintaining a system that provides zero rate of return, especially when operating gondolas (which require cable and steel pylons, not concrete beams, to maintain).
After 20 years, Jacksonville Skyway remains a punchline
The Skyway has been a Jacksonville joke for a generation. But the underachieving, 2.5-mile elevated people mover that first opened in 1989 isn't all that funny. Look up at its silent, almost-empt…www.jacksonville.com
Disney Operating Expenses 2010-2024 | DIS
Disney annual/quarterly operating expenses history and growth rate from 2010 to 2024. Operating expenses can be defined as the sum of all operating expenses for the given industry. <ul style='margin-top:10px;'> <li>Disney operating expenses for the quarter ending September 30...
Walt Disney World Monorail System - Wikipedia
Having said that, Maintenance costs are not determined by mileage of beam / track and None of those articles you site suggest that.
There honestly is nothing to suggest that the Walt Disney World monorail system will age out because of the deterioration of the track or that track maintenance is particularly expensive.
The Walt Disney World system And I totally different type of monorail system compared to Jacksonville. You cannot extrapolate the cost of maintenance to the beams at Walt Disney World by comparing the cost of maintenance divided by the beam mileage at Jacksonville.
They're totally different systems with totally different types of trains , beams/track and different types of maintenance needs.
The trains of the Walt Disney World resort are far more elaborate, much larger and certainly much longer. The beam/tracks are also completely different. Disney's fleet of trains are much more complex and larger.
On a side note if you think that Walt Disney World monorail trains are in rough shape, then go ahead and take a ride on the Jacksonville system. That's not a justification for condition Disney allow their trains to fall into. There is a Disney standard and it's certainly not what Jacksonville has. So about 2 years ago the trains were certainly above the Jacksonville standard but still way below the Disney standard. I applaud recent efforts to spruce them up, externally, internally, and even under the skirts with new braking systems and automation.
All of these things, which can be seen plane as day, are clear examples of maintenance being done to the system that have real costs associated with them. Aside from the pressure washing of the beams, we have not seen heavy maintenance to the beams. You don't even see maintenance activity during the downtime on the beams. With a 24-hour resort presence and everyone with a cell phone, you certainly would see this if they were doing it.
The only time we saw beam maintenance was prior to the kickoff of the 50th anniversary where they decided to go ahead and pressure wash the beams.
Prior to that was the addition of the automation necessities. Brackets type sensors so the trains would line up with the stations correctly are now attached to the beams assumingly there's something under the train that lines up with those brackets that tells the train exactly when it is aligned to the station appropriately. Additionally, there are lots of wifi like pads attached to metal poles that extend out from to the beam, Assumingly so that the trains can track each other and know where they're at. But these are additions to an existing beam way that were more about adding the automation than any actual need of maintenance to the beam to prevent it from aging out.
So I am still on there's nothing about the beams themselves that will prevent Walt Disney World from continuing to run the Walt Disney World monorail system.
Rich Brownn
Well-Known Member
What I find interesting is when I worked monorails in the 70s we didn't operate if there was lightning in the area. Trains were parked in the stations (two at TTC).