Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

[MisterPenguin]

You will have to ask the other person, because I was responding to why they will never expand the monorail lines and how it is as much an identity for WDW as the mouse. The rails are old enough now after 40/50 years that they will need much more careful watching to make sure they are strong and like new. It wouldn't take much of a crack in that concrete for it to come a tumblin down cradle and all. I'm amazed that they haven't had to replace at least one section track.

You mentioned it first. And you hereby admit it's a presumption on your part.

I asked your source, you answered. Thank-you.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I mean... the timing could be a coincidence?

No, the problems happened over time. The doors could fall of a new one. Like your car no matter how much you do you cannot prevent things from happening, unexpectedly. Maintenance does not mean that you replace things before they break. It means that you do what is necessary to extend the life of whatever object you are charged with maintaining. Not everything can be anticipated.

The example is the door situation. How many doors total are there attached to the fleet of trains at WDW? Collectively, how many times over that time do you estimate, over that same 30 years, have those doors opened and closed? How many times in 30 years have any fallen off. There are millions of pieces that make up a train, how do you anticipate that something that never broke before will break now? I think you know that answer just by the objects in your own home. I'm not sure why people want to insist that Disney property is immune from the same forces that all the rest of the world has to live with every single day. Also why do we feel the need to point a finger and assume something that we know nothing about without the specific experience and complete knowledge of those particular mechanical objects?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Has the Disneyland monorail replaced any of its track?

I have no idea, but DL doesn't have anywhere near the amount of track the WDW is dealing with.

 

[bcoachable]

No, the problems happened over time. The doors could fall of a new one. Like your car no matter how much you do you cannot prevent things from happening, unexpectedly. Maintenance does not mean that you replace things before they break. It means that you do what is necessary to extend the life of whatever object you are charged with maintaining. Not everything can be anticipated.

The example is the door situation. How many doors total are there attached to the fleet of trains at WDW? Collectively, how many times over that time do you estimate, over that same 30 years, have those doors opened and closed? How many times in 30 years have any fallen off. There are millions of pieces that make up a train, how do you anticipate that something that never broke before will break now? I think you know that answer just by the objects in your own home. I'm not sure why people want to insist that Disney property is immune from the same forces that all the rest of the world has to live with every single day. Also why do we feel the need to point a finger and assume something that we know nothing about without the specific experience and complete knowledge of those particular mechanical objects?

I agree-
However- you must admit that we as a fan group have always held Diz to a higher standard… somewhat the way when I go to Target- I’m expecting to find a better product than when I go to Walmart… and it would appear, as of late, Diz decision making has been slightly more like Walmart than Target when it comes to maintaining what they have. (Please prove me wrong!!)

 

[Rich Brownn]

I have no idea, but DL doesn't have anywhere near the amount of track the WDW is dealing with.

But its also a decade or so older. I think it has to do with the fact that its pre-stressed concrete not just a regular pour.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I agree-
However- you must admit that we as a fan group have always held Diz to a higher standard… somewhat the way when I go to Target- I’m expecting to find a better product than when I go to Walmart… and it would appear, as of late, Diz decision making has been slightly more like Walmart than Target when it comes to maintaining what they have. (Please prove me wrong!!)

I can't prove what appears to be factual to you. So you prove to me that I'm wrong. I just know machinery, not monorails specifically. I do know that machinery breaks, it is something that is absolute. The miles and the age of that equipment makes it an absolute impossibility to not have intense maintenance and be as dependable as that fleet has been. When the stuff was newer it just simply didn't have as many problems because the parts weren't worn as much, but even then there is no telling when something might decide it has a weak spot and breaks. Not everything can be anticipated, but I know that even though you do hear of occasional incidents from time to time, For the numbers people they haul and the miles they accumulate, they have had to be very well cared for. Disney's pockets are just to deep to allow themselves to be exposed to the possible legal liability that lack of maintenance would create.

 

[Goofyernmost]

But its also a decade or so older. I think it has to do with the fact that its pre-stressed concrete not just a regular pour.

Sure and that is what gives it it's strength, but concrete is concrete and many a pre-stressed item has failed. It is obvious that those beams were very well engineered and in both cases neither park is in an almost completely freeze less climate which is what wreaks the most havoc on concrete.

 

[bcoachable]

I can't prove what appears to be factual to you. So you prove to me that I'm wrong. I just know machinery, not monorails specifically. I do know that machinery breaks, it is something that is absolute. The miles and the age of that equipment makes it an absolute impossibility to not have intense maintenance and be as dependable as that fleet has been. When the stuff was newer it just simply didn't have as many problems because the parts weren't worn as much, but even then there is no telling when something might decide it has a weak spot and breaks. Not everything can be anticipated, but I know that even though you do hear of occasional incidents from time to time, For the numbers people they haul and the miles they accumulate, they have had to be very well cared for. Disney's pockets are just to deep to allow themselves to be exposed to the possible legal liability that lack of maintenance would create.

Proof?
#1 How are the air testers working at BTM?
Edit: to add that I’d like you to understand that I get what your saying… my point is maintenance of items at parks has been much better in the past.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Has the Disneyland monorail replaced any of its track?

Only as part of changes to the track alignment. That though does not necessarily tell you much of anything. The climate and use are different. Concrete also is not one singular thing. There are different mixes that produce different results and the process of creating the concrete can also result in differences. All sorts of variables can create differences. How much water was used? How much cement was used? What aggregates were used? What additives were used? What was the weather like when it was mixed? What was the weather like the days after it was poured? What type of reinforcing is being used? Way too many variables to just compare different structures on opposite sides of a continent in different climates.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Only as part of changes to the track alignment. That though does not necessarily tell you much of anything. The climate and use are different. Concrete also is not one singular thing. There are different mixes that produce different results and the process of creating the concrete can also result in differences. All sorts of variables can create differences. How much water was used? How much cement was used? What aggregates were used? What additives were used? What was the weather like when it was mixed? What was the weather like the days after it was poured? What type of reinforcing is being used? Way too many variables to just compare different structures on opposite sides of a continent in different climates.

Makes sense. The post I was referring to made it seem like the beam was about to crack in half at a moments notice of not replaced soon, with little fact to back it up, I was trying to think if any other older systems were having such issues.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Proof?
#1 How are the air testers working at BTM?
Edit: to add that I’d like you to understand that I get what your saying… my point is maintenance of items at parks has been much better in the past.

You are probably right about overall maintenance, but what I am saying is that I don't think that items like the Monorails which have potential to kill a whole lot of people in the event of a preventable catastrophic mechanical failure are part of the "maintenance isn't important" story. I think that because of that they have always been taken care of in a more then acceptable manner. There certainly would naturally be more issues now then in the past, but that doesn't mean that they were taken any better care of, in fact as they have aged more maintenance was required and I think that in spite of all the arm chair mechanics opinions they have done a pretty incredible job keeping those machines operating as efficiently and trouble free as they have been.

I am not aware of what "air testers at BTM" even is. Define please! Just as a side note park attraction maintenance and Monorail maintenance are two completely different departments with completely different degrees of risk. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[bcoachable]

I agree with you 100%. This discussion is supposed to be about monorails, and I moved it in a different direction. My frustration with some recent choices from the company has put me in a thread drift mood, lately and for that, I apologize. General park maintenance is a different beast than maintenance of higher consequence. Of course if we brought up all the patch welding going on in Space that might qualify? Any way- I was referring to the plus elements in BTM’s Queue that allow you to spin and turn knobs to see birds or dancing cowboys as the air down the shafts is tested or freshened… sometimes posts can come off as snarky- really hoping you don’t find this one like that. I enjoy the banter.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I think that because of that they have always been taken care of in a more then acceptable manner.

I don’t think doors opening en-route and pieces falling to the pedestrian paths below = acceptable manner.

One could argue that if the monorails had been updated properly, they wouldn’t have killed a cast member as well but that is a really unique situation that is a bit more debatable.

 

[Disone]

Teal Just got a snazzy new refurbishment. She looks great even on the inside. I hope as much went into her under the skirt as they did on the exterior and interior for guests to enjoy. She absolutely has had much of her age visually erased.

I can't be for certain but I feel like this is her second exterior refurbish and the first major refurbishment to her interior. Either way, I do feel like this is a sign that they have found money to genuinely refurbish the existing fleet. I do not recall a time where they were systematically going through and refurbishing the all trains on this level. I absolutely love it though it is long overdue. That said, it probably means they are not purchasing new trains.

I'm torn on that a little bit. I would really love to see new trains but I do love these trains. I was just saddened by the condition they had been allowed to fall into.

I disagree that their maintenance was not lackluster. In 2016 and 17 the rate of trains breaking down out on the beams was just way too high.... daily I do mean daily. They were in the news too often for things they should not have been in the news for. Parts falling off doors being left open and evacuations being held for trains that broke down and could not be towed.

Though it took some time, the systematic refurbishment of the trains clearly has made an improvement. I hope I haven't jinxed them, but they really haven't been in the news much lately for these kind of events. I don't think that's a coincidence. I do think a new level of maintenance has been put into these trains. Now. Let's hope they maintain as much as they put into refurbish them.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I don’t think doors opening en-route and pieces falling to the pedestrian paths below = acceptable manner.

One could argue that if the monorails had been updated properly, they wouldn’t have killed a cast member as well but that is a really unique situation that is a bit more debatable.

True if you live in a world of unicorns and rainbows. But WDW is smack dab (good name for a rock band by the way) in the middle of earth where unexpected things happen from metal fatigue, etc.. If for almost 50 years nothing like that happened there would be no reason to anticipate that it would happen now. I'm sure that was not on any maintenance checklist. If anything might be argued it would be that the CM's on the Monorail stops should have noticed that there was something loose acting about the doors, but even then without previous knowledge of how they should work, they wouldn't know either.

That cast member was not killed by maintenance. He was killed by people that thought they knew more than the safety crews and bypassed the rules so they could save a couple of minutes. It is an argument for better supervision but had nothing to do with maintaining the fleet, so it is not debatable, it isn't even closely related.

 

[Rich Brownn]

I don’t think doors opening en-route and pieces falling to the pedestrian paths below = acceptable manner.

One could argue that if the monorails had been updated properly, they wouldn’t have killed a cast member as well but that is a really unique situation that is a bit more debatable.

The accident was people not following protocol, not because of any failure of the equipment. You can add all the safety systems you want but if people deliberately bypass them there's not much else you can do.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The accident was people not following protocol, not because of any failure of the equipment. You can add all the safety systems you want but if people deliberately bypass them there's not much else you can do.

Agreed. The culture that allowed a manger to control such movements off-property in a Perkins restaurant is what really caused the accident in my book. But there was such a sad series of failures it’s not one thing.

However, an updated and / or fully automated system could have indeed prevented that from happening.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Agreed. The culture that allowed a manger to control such movements off-property in a Perkins restaurant is what really caused the accident in my book. But there was such a sad series of failures it’s not one thing.

However, an updated and / or fully automated system could have indeed prevented that from happening.

Except, of course, when a manager decides to override the automated system to "speed things up". (The accident happened during track transfers. During that time you have to manually override the emergency stop. I worked Monorail so familiar with the procedure. Thats how I knew it could only have happened during track transfer - its the only time you're allowed to do that.)

 

[Disone]

Except, of course, when a manager decides to override the automated system to "speed things up". (The accident happened during track transfers. During that time you have to manually override the emergency stop. I worked Monorail so familiar with the procedure. Thats how I knew it could only have happened during track transfer - its the only time you're allowed to do that.)

I think what @TrainChasers was trying to say is that a fully automated system would not need to perform an override during track transfers. It's fully automated it would be able to handle the track transfers in addition to the regular train movements. This is certainly the case with many monorail systems around the world.

 

[Kamikaze]

Has the Disneyland monorail replaced any of its track?

Not due to age, but the DL track has been re-routed numerous times, and is planned to be so again for Disneyland Forward. So yes.