New Monorail Fleet for WDW

mickey2008.1

Well-Known Member
Would love to see new trains,as they are really needed, but more stops is cost prohibitive. Why would they connect all aprks, especially when over 50% of people say they are half day parks. And with nextgen only being able to makenfps's at One park per day, there is no need for connectivity anymore.
 

FQL

Member
Focusing on keeping the shareholders happy is a very shortsighted way to approach WDW. Smaller investments with larger returns are what shareholders want to see on a yearly basis. Investments on infrastructure are put on hold until absolutely necessary or kept to a minimum. Attractions are allowed to waste away if it is thought that a return on investment can not be realized quickly. Big ideas are passed over for quick fixes and what you get for all of that is Tomorrowland, The Imagination Pavillion, WOL, UOE, and a broken Yeti among others.

I know Disney is a business that reports to the shareholders and that Iger is doing his job in getting those shareholders the most value, but these short term gains will cost Disney big when they finally have to start real investment in the parks.
 

willtravel

Well-Known Member
The expand Fantasyland and spend $$$ because it will bring in the crowds to experience "newness"...And people will spend lots of money on every aspect of WDW, hotels restaurants souvenirs ect, just to see this newness...

So in effect the $600 million to open New Fantasyland will in fact bring in over $1 Billion in sales creating a large profit. We shareholders love this business model.
I was there in May to experience the new Fantasyland expansion. I was not impressed for $600.., as I am reading on this site, that UNI is growing and bringing in more tourists. There doing something right.
 

radiohost

Well-Known Member
Focusing on keeping the shareholders happy is a very shortsighted way to approach WDW.

Well, right now were in competition. And whatever management thinks is best has been implemented for over 5 years now with great investment overseas, in China for example...

And right now, we're winning...
 

willtravel

Well-Known Member
Focusing on keeping the shareholders happy is a very shortsighted way to approach WDW. Smaller investments with larger returns are what shareholders want to see on a yearly basis. Investments on infrastructure are put on hold until absolutely necessary or kept to a minimum. Attractions are allowed to waste away if it is thought that a return on investment can not be realized quickly. Big ideas are passed over for quick fixes and what you get for all of that is Tomorrowland, The Imagination Pavillion, WOL, UOE, and a broken Yeti among others.

I know Disney is a business that reports to the shareholders and that Iger is doing his job in getting those shareholders the most value, but these short term gains will cost Disney big when they finally have to start real investment in the parks.
I agree. Well said. I know it is not feasible to have a monorail to go to all parks but if given a choice, monorail for me.
 

Butter

Member
Then if Disney is worried about profit then I would hope there will be no more expansions, bonuses, etc.... And it has yet to be proven that Next Gen will make the company more profitable. As @marni1971 said, thankfully they are spending 3 billion on NextGen.


They've already published reports that say that people spend more within the parks with the RFID bracelets than they do without. I'd say that is just the groundwork for getting a reasonable ROI on this 2-3 billion.
 

FQL

Member
Well, right now were in competition. And whatever management thinks is best has been implemented for over 5 years now with great investment overseas, in China for example...

And right now, we're winning...

Not sure that many shareholders worry about "winning" the park wars. Shareholders main concern is a good ROI and a decent dividend. It does not matter how it gets done. If cutting costs gets them there that thats good, if spending $$ on improving the parks lowers their profits thats bad.
 

MKCP 1985

Well-Known Member
I'm a Disney shareholder and yes it would anger me if the company spent the $100 Million + it would take to connect all four parks together. A huge waste...

Shareholders of whatever company Disney buys those buses from would have equal rights to complain. The buses Disney buys alone are probably keeping some manufacturing plant and some distributor in business.

Monorails aren't expanding, relax. It wouldn't be the end of your share value if some new trains were purchased though. And when you (we) complain about $$$ spent to expand a rail line that keeps a few dozen buses off the roads, think about the $$$$ Disney spent on next gen and on films like John Carter and the Lone Ranger. :)
 

radiohost

Well-Known Member
Not sure that many shareholders worry about "winning" the park wars. Shareholders main concern is a good ROI and a decent dividend. It does not matter how it gets done. If cutting costs gets them there that thats good, if spending $$ on improving the parks lowers their profits thats bad.

I was referring to winning in the industry in general. And Disney most definitely is...And if you build a monorail to all four parks you would send the company into a collapse financially. It cannot be done.
 

FQL

Member
I was referring to winning in the industry in general. And Disney most definitely is...And if you build a monorail to all four parks you would send the company into a collapse financially. It cannot be done.
I never said that they should build a monorail to every resort. I don't believe that they will ever expand the monorail system at WDW. I am only stating that doing things just to keep the shareholders happy every year is short sighted. Long range planning is what will keep Disney "winning" but sometimes long range plans and expenditures don't look good on todays balance sheets and that is why Disney fans feel short changed when it comes to park upkeep and development.
Also Disney is winning because they are ahead of the competition but by sitting around and resting on their laurels, the competition is catching up.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
Like shareholders have any inside info for a publicly traded company. Also, this thread has been up for a while and no @PeterAlt? It must be a pipe dream if he hasn't showed up yet.
Here I am. I have some catching up to do, but if this is about new trains... I thought those were coming as part of the upgrade to automation over the next several years...
 

rob0519

Well-Known Member
I've been going to Disney for years now, worked there in college ect. Decided to buy some of the companies stock a few years ago, great company under Igers management. I can say for one that the adding stops both at Animal Kingdom and HS is the type of decision that could collapse a company. The transportation to those places works great as it is, the upkeep and maintenance it would take would skyrocket costs and is simply a dumb move financially. Enhance the park with new technology, keep the guests excited for newness, and turn a profit. I as a shareholder in Disney, would be happy.

Been going to Disney for decades and yes, I am a shareholder as well. I agree the extending the monorail to AK and DHS would be an huge and unnecessary expense that would not produce any revenue. While I would say the bus service to those two parks is adequate, I would hardly call it great, based on the wait times I've both seen and experienced in recent years. Adding some additional buses and drivers would be a much less expenseive alternative during peak hours and seasons. The new articulated buses to carry more people is a start.

Profits may be up during Iger's tenure, but the quality of the Parks specifically has gone downhill. Yes, the new Fantasyland will draw a few more visitiors and yes, NextGen is nothing more than a way to use technology to drive up revenue. I would be happy to get a slightly smaller dividend check and see the exective bonuses reduced if the money were put back into the general park maintenance fund. A company should never apologize for making a profit, but there should be some balance between taking care of the shareholders, taking care of the employees and taking care of the customers. Corporations today are goverened by the fear of not meeting some arbitrary quarterly earnings figure set by Wall Street.
 
I am always one to be super skeptical about any rumors I hear, but I happen to have a very reliable source for this new information!

A Monorail CM told me yesterday that he and the rest of the Monorail transport team were informed by their managers that the topic was discussed at length in a recent Transportation board meeting. Supposedly, the entire fleet is to be replaced, as the (now nearing) 30-year-old Mark VIs are becoming completely out-dated with regard to being able to find proper parts to make necessary repairs. Alledgedly, 24 brand new, custom trains will be replacing the current fleet. That's right, 24. Apparently, there was more discussion on connecting the two remaining parks. He also said that Epcot would become the new TTC, as it has the platform capacity space that the current TTC does not.

I was hoping someone might be able to at least confirm if this holds any water at all. As reliable as my source is, I'll still believe it when I see it. :p. I know very well how rumors can sound real when discussed among CMs.

Now this sounds like something related to Next Gen Improvement actually worth $2 Billion Dollars.
 

NoChesterHester

Well-Known Member
I was referring to winning in the industry in general. And Disney most definitely is...And if you build a monorail to all four parks you would send the company into a collapse financially. It cannot be done.


Now I don't believe the monorail will ever get extended, because it can't prove ROI... BUT....

A company that makes 41 billion dollars a year would financially collapse if a monorail was constructed to all four parks. Bwah ha ha ha ha!!!!!
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
I am always one to be super skeptical about any rumors I hear, but I happen to have a very reliable source for this new information!

A Monorail CM told me yesterday that he and the rest of the Monorail transport team were informed by their managers that the topic was discussed at length in a recent Transportation board meeting. Supposedly, the entire fleet is to be replaced, as the (now nearing) 30-year-old Mark VIs are becoming completely out-dated with regard to being able to find proper parts to make necessary repairs. Alledgedly, 24 brand new, custom trains will be replacing the current fleet. That's right, 24. Apparently, there was more discussion on connecting the two remaining parks. He also said that Epcot would become the new TTC, as it has the platform capacity space that the current TTC does not.

I was hoping someone might be able to at least confirm if this holds any water at all. As reliable as my source is, I'll still believe it when I see it. :p. I know very well how rumors can sound real when discussed among CMs.
I've done extensive research on the subject. My interest in the WDW monorail system goes beyond WDW. I've studied other systems in other parts of the world as I have taken a general interest in transportation systems. I have decided to seek a degree and possibly a future career in this field.

That said, I want to say that what you have said sounds believable. The current plan is to upgrade the system over several years to driverless automated trains, like Las Vegas has. Before I get into what I think will happen, some history first.

The original monorail trains at WDW and DL (as well as the WEDway PeopleMover) were created by a division of WDI. That division was going to build monorail and people moved systems for cities and airports every where that were willing to pay. A WEDway PeopleMover (second generation) was built for Houston's airport before Disney decided their Community Transportation division was a distraction from their core business and sold it to Bombardier of Canada. Later, in the 1980's, because Bombardier's monorail technology came from Disney technology, the newer Bombardier trains were compatible with the older Disney ones, and so Disney bought the more modern Bombardier fleet.

Hotel owners in Las Vegas, looking for way to interconnect the Bally's and MGM Grand, read in the newspapers that Disney was about to retire their fleet of old monorail trains. They got on the phone and called someone at Disney, asking "What are you going to do with the old trains?" When they heard that they had no plans for them, they made Disney an offer in cash for them that Disney agreed to. The hotel owners the built a short monorail line between the two hotels using the old Disney trains.

Years later, other hotels along the Las Vegas Strip wanted in on the monorail. The citizens of Las Vegas voted on a bond issue which lent the not for profit corporation that owns and controls the LV Monorail enough cash to extend the system to the rest of the strip area, to buy new trains, and automate the entire system. By this time, Bombardier had a new model train that was automated. It, too, was based on the original Disney specifications, thus compatible with the Disney-made trains of the original Bally's to MGM-Grand leg of the Las Vegas monorail.

At WDW, over the years, there had been plans to extend the system, with EC as the hub. There was a plan to extend it to DTD using a spur from the east side of SSE. A footing for that spur was even built during the construction of EC and remains unused and can be seen exposed in satellite images. The line and related DTD developments were cancelled right before construction could start in the early-mid 80's. Another spur on the west side had been planned in the late 80's-early 2000's for the EPCOT resorts and DHS. Because of security concerns during after 9/11, those plans were shelved indefinitely. The EPCOT platform was always intended to handle the traffic of additional spurs and extra platform space was built into its design, as you have correctly stated.

Recently, WDW hired a transportation expert to oversee the property's transportation systems. In a recent interview, he stated that the monorail system will be upgraded to automated trains (like the Las Vegas system) over the next several years. This will require an order of new trains from Bombardier. If they ever wanted to expand the WDW system in the future, they would need to convert the entire existing system for automation technology first. If they are buying new trains and ever want to expand the current system, it is cheaper to buy the additional trains the expanded system will require (with the order of the replacement fleet) now, rather than later. Per your post, it looks like they have decided to add those additional trains with their order. This is the first positive indication that a system expansion project will follow the system upgrade project. Of course, they may be buying the additional trains "in case" they ever decide to expand, but why spend that money if they have no intention on expanding?

Meanwhile, in Las Vegas, the LV Monorail Company is in big trouble. Lower than expected ridership has caused the company to default on payment on the bond loans so many times that they had no other choice but to file for bankruptcy. Before bankruptcy, there was a plan to extend the system north to Las Vegas' downtown area. Obviously, there's no money to do this. More recently, they paid for a study that made recommendations on how to increase ridership and revenue. The report said that a short extension south to the airport is all the system would need to gain enough riders to make it profitable. Now, emerging out of bankruptcy, the new CEO says the southern extension to the airport will only get built if there's federal assistance. The whole Las Vegas area right now is still in economic recession. Many big projects that were announced have been cancelled, stalled, or majorly scaled back. Until Las Vegas gets out of its slump, no bank would lend additional dollars for an extension south - even with federal assistance.

Las Vegas can't stay in recession forever. When it finally gets out of it - an extension to the airport makes so much sense. Federal dollars should stop the taxi industry from killing it. When they're ready, WDW should be ready to expand as well. The two systems can order the new tracks from Bombardier together in a single order and save money. This practice of pooling orders is not unusual and have been done before many times by two or more cities going in on a single order for a transit system built simultaneously at either city. Also, Disney has plans on eventually expanding and redoing DHS. They can include platforms, footings, etc. as part of that project.
 


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