New Key to the World Cards coming soon.

Tom

Beta Return
Yes, that's the typical warehouse application for RFID. But it's not the only application possible.. and that's kind of the discussion. One does not mandate the other..

While I think it would be cool... I think a company like Disney will be too scare of the potential media wave about 'tracking people', etc.. and ultimately stick to methods where guests have to initiate an action to be 'seen' by the system. Just look at how much bad press they got over the bioscanners.. imagine what it would be like when people say 'Disney is tracking your every move!!' - even tho they can already in many different ways. The hysteria and bad press alone is probably enough to scare Disney into smaller applications.

There may be hysteria....like there was over the biometric scanners....but eventually it fades. We hardly even remember that mess now, do we?

There's no doubt in my mind they're going to build RFID tunnels all over property. Now, maybe they won't log when a specific individual goes potty, or if they stand in line for a bus for too long.....but they'll most assuredly collect gross data. Lump sum quantities of people doing things.

But yes, they'll track your spending. Every grocery store with a "Rewards Card" does that now. They will use their data to target market to individuals instead of their current mass mailing method. If you keep staying at Pop, they'll offer you a sweetheart deal to stay at Riverside next year, and remind you that you don't need to rent a car.

And honestly, if they're sly, only us geeks will know they're putting in these tunnels. It's not like the turnstiles where every single guest physically interacts with the evil device. These will be hidden and embedded.

And then when they resell their system to Uni and every other major theme park mogul, none of them are going to care that the tin-foil-hatters cried for a while. And I'll just remind everyone that Uncle Sam knows more about you than Disney will.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
If Disney were bold... I'd agree. But they are less and less. I'm less optimistic they will use it to this grandeur and we'll see 'wave here' markers all over the place :/
 

Tom

Beta Return
If Disney were bold... I'd agree. But they are less and less. I'm less optimistic they will use it to this grandeur and we'll see 'wave here' markers all over the place :/

Could be, but for a billion bucks.....they have the money to put in the correct hardware. They'd never be able to collect consistent and reliable data if they're simply asking guests to get their card out and smack it against a sensor. Compliance will be close to 0.
 

Joshua&CalebDad

Well-Known Member
No, for the doors you must still pass the card over the lock. It needs to be almost virtually in contact to register.

No problem, I'll just rub my pocket up against the door. Again, when coming in around midnight with a child draped over your shoulder, I'll do anything to make sure the beasts don't wake. (sigh) What has my life come to when my own child scares the dickens out of me.
 

CaptainShortty

Well-Known Member
The new door locks will be rolled out into all of the resorts in the relatively near future. Other than data mining (which yes, Disney and every other company nowadays is doing) the new locks also have some operational attributes that are beneficial for the resort cast members. So they're not just for data mining. =P
 

Tom

Beta Return
The new door locks will be rolled out into all of the resorts in the relatively near future. Other than data mining (which yes, Disney and every other company nowadays is doing) the new locks also have some operational attributes that are beneficial for the resort cast members. So they're not just for data mining. =P

...for example...
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
I'll also profess the the huge convenience of these "swipeless" cards. We used them on one of the new Disney ships, and it was great to get into your room simply by holding up a keycard to the doorknob. There might be parts of the NextGen initiative I may object to, but this ain't one of them.
 

alissafalco

Well-Known Member
They already have this in some stores and you can do it with your credit card. My CVS drugstore has this at the register and all I did was tap my credit card to the machine (instead of normally swiping it through) and paid my bill. It's very cool, and that is way modern technology is going.
 

Tom

Beta Return
They already have this in some stores and you can do it with your credit card. My CVS drugstore has this at the register and all I did was tap my credit card to the machine (instead of normally swiping it through) and paid my bill. It's very cool, and that is way modern technology is going.

Yes, many retail chains are using the CC terminals that accept the ))) cards. However, this scares me far more than the Disney KttW cards, because your name, card number and expiration are all embedded on your credit card. If someone "lifts" the info from your card, they can quickly make another one and go shopping immediately.
 

alissafalco

Well-Known Member
How? Its no different than swiping it through. Either a tap or a swipe i don't see the differece in safety. If they can't lift your info from a swipe then they can't lift it from a tap either. I would'nt worry
 

Tom

Beta Return
How? Its no different than swiping it through. Either a tap or a swipe i don't see the differece in safety. If they can't lift your info from a swipe then they can't lift it from a tap either. I would'nt worry

I'm not talking about the retailer....I'm talking about criminals around you. With current credit cards, a criminal would have to actually SEE your card (front and back) to be able to go use it for web purchases. This is because they can't lift the data off the mag stripe without physically running it through something.

However, with RFID, any device that can read RFID chips can lift that info right off your card....while they're just standing next to you. Granted, this DOES take some Inspector Gadget type technology, and possibly some sort of decryption, but grabbing the info off an RFID card is quick and painless for someone readily prepared to do it.
 

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
What's the frequency range on these?

If I'm in the room and have the card in my pocket...can someone just tap the door and get into my room?
 

Tom

Beta Return
What's the frequency range on these?

If I'm in the room and have the card in my pocket...can someone just tap the door and get into my room?

The range is actually based on the receiver, from what I understand. There's an RFID expert lurking on these boards, so hopefully I don't stick my foot in my mouth.

But the receivers in the doorknobs is extremely weak. The RFID chip (which is embedded in your KttW card) must be within an inch (or less) of the sensor for it to work. It's all based on proximity.

Now, when they build these "tunnels", the proximity readers in them will have a wide angle of scanning, and a powerful signal reception strength. So, since you exit just about every ride or attraction through a minimum of a pair of doors (6' wide, 7' tall), there would be an array of sensors around that opening that could create sort of a "wall of reception" that you walk through (think of passing through the mist effect in Pirates).

So, no, your card can't open your room door unless the card is physically placed next to the sensor. And your card won't be randomly charged for a churro just by walking by the churro cart when someone else is buying one. You'll have to tap it on the terminal when you are making a purchase.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
RFID have both active and passive tags. Things like your card would be passive tags.

They are basically inert unless in presence of a RFID transmitter. They derive their power from the EM field created by the transmitter, and send out a weak radio signal, which is picked up by the RFID transmitter.

So basically.. unless in the presence of a RFID transmitter, they do nothing. Their range is influenced by the power induced from the EM field of the transmitter.

NFC or close contact systems limit exposure by basically requiring the systems to be in almost direct contact by using weak signals and antennas.
 

John

Well-Known Member
RE: Criminals Stealing My Card ID #: Apparently I'm not as concerned about this as some people are. I put a Visa CC on my room. If there end up being fraudulent charges on my bill at the end of the week - BAM, Visa takes care of it. And the most expensive thing that is ever in my room is a tablet/netbook....and they fit in all the safes I've experienced. I'm more worried about someone dodging in and out real quick while housekeeping props open 2 doors at a time, than I am about someone loitering in a Disney resort hallway with a complete Mr. Gadget kit so he can see which room I'm in, scan my card, produce a fake card, and go into my room only to find my giant pile of socks in the corner. Besides, how long is one criminal going to creepily hang out in a hotel hallway before SOMEONE (Manager, Housekeeping, Maintenance, Guests, etc) say something? He's going to be able to try it on one room, tops, per resort or building.

RE: Proximity: With doors, the proximity sensor is set to 0 (i.e. touch). Same for the "Orbs on a Stick" that they used to test FP+. They will likely set their "Painless Payment" systems the same way, just like many credit card terminals already do that accept Credit Cards with the )))) symbol on them. They don't want to be able to scan it from your pocket to make a purchase. They need to see it in your hand, and to be within an inch or so of the device.

They will indeed use long-range proximity readers at queues, ride exits, gift shop exits, smoking areas, bus stops and other key areas throughout property. This type of application will tell them how many people are waiting for buses or using smoking areas. They'll count guests using park restrooms, and dispatch custodial accordingly based on usage (and they'll be able to target and project labor more accurately, putting more custodians in a certain area at higher usage times). They'll scan you as you come off a ride, and at the exit of it's gift show, so if you're one who gets off Pirates and sprints through the gift shop....you just get counted. If you linger, you'll get e-mails with marketing literature for pirate merchandise.

They'll know how many times you ride a certain ride. They'll know ACTUAL wait times without using the red cards, because they'll scan you at the queue entrance and at load....and they'll be doing it continuously for every guest with a readable ID.

RE: Benefits: There's no doubt that this technology will benefit Disney more than it will the guest. But, at the same time, some of those Disney benefits could trickle down as indirect guest benefits. As with the example above about the restrooms, there's no doubt in my mind that they'll count visits to the bathroom (not individually, but as an aggregate), and will thus be able to schedule custodial labor and stock supplies in a more efficient manner. While Disney will save money on labor, the guests will also benefit in more appropriately maintained restrooms.

And, if they utilize it correctly at bus stops, they'll be able to actually dispatch buses to the depots that have guest waiting at them (instead of sending 3 buses to an empty stop, which we ALL know they are well known for doing now).

But as others have said, they will use this technology as a method of collecting data en mass. A large portion of the $Billion will undoubtedly go toward storage servers and data processing computers...plus the software they're probably writing themselves, or in partnership with someone like SAP. They're going to track the movement and habits of every guest, analyze it based on every demographic you can imagine, and target market based on purchases, time spent in the parks, time spent at your resort, whether you're using Disney transportation or not, and what types of stuff you buy.

This is data mining to the max, with the added perk of reducing labor and adjusting to crowds better. The cherry on top is that they can add some guest conveniences along the way, and offer things like interactive queues and FP+.

If you look at it the way I do, it's win-win....but there's a much bigger WIN on Disney's side of the fence.


I am sorry, after seeing what has been going on around here lately I am even weary with all the negative talk. Some would suggest I am a card carrying D&G member.....but according to your analogy what I can look forward to for the sum of 1 BILLION dollars is lots more of Disney spam and never worring about the toilet paper running out? oh and buses actually running effciently....

Isnt it really about TDO saving money? ie the bottom line? Not sure how much my experience will benifit. BTW after fourteen visits I finally recieved one of those prized pin code offers in the mail.
 

Tom

Beta Return
I am sorry, after seeing what has been going on around here lately I am even weary with all the negative talk. Some would suggest I am a card carrying D&G member.....but according to your analogy what I can look forward to for the sum of 1 BILLION dollars is lots more of Disney spam and never worring about the toilet paper running out? oh and buses actually running effciently....

Isnt it really about TDO saving money? ie the bottom line? Not sure how much my experience will benifit. BTW after fourteen visits I finally recieved one of those prized pin code offers in the mail.

Yes, NextGen is most assuredly about SAVING money and MAKING more money - on Disney's part. The guest experience will likely be enhanced (depending on your point of view) as a side effect.
 

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