sgtmgd
Well-Known Member
Correct...I work in the IT field, certified security specialist..while nothing is "safe" your PI is as safe with RFID as the previous system
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Correct...I work in the IT field, certified security specialist..while nothing is "safe" your PI is as safe with RFID as the previous system
flynnibus
Premium Member
No, for the doors you must still pass the card over the lock. It needs to be almost virtually in contact to register.
Tom
Beta Return
If you're at all interested in any of the interactive features that are eventually implemented, and activated, by your RFID KttW card, you won't want to carry it in your shielded wallet. Just put the credit cards in the room safe and carry the KttW card.
Anyone have a photo of one?
It is a tiny bit easier, but doesn't save much time. While you don't have to figure out which way your card is facing, it still takes a couple seconds for it to register, talk to the computer, and unlock the door.
And I hope they DO NOT use the power-saving feature that the ships use. Quite annoying. But, we quickly learned that any plastic card (drivers license, library card, etc) can be used to keep the lights burning
This would be a WONDERFUL use. EMH is already too crowded. If they can weed out the people who are cheating the system, that would be excellent.
....if not safer, since credit card mag stripes actually have your full name, full card number, and expiration date embedded in them. The RFID chip will simply be a number that means nothing to anyone/anything except Disney's computers.
This is true. On the fantasy, we had to tap the card to the black plastic receiver on the door lockset. It appeared to require the same procedure at Art of Animation when we toured it.
bgraham34
Well-Known Member
But you fail to realize that some criminal might be stalking you or someone else in disney and bump into them leaving the room and grab the RFID information and then wait some time and go into your room and rob you blind. This is much easier than picking your pocket.
My credit card information was stolen in this manner a few years back.
Pentacat
Well-Known Member
That depends on the technology that Disney is using both in the card and at the "reader" end. There are passive RFID systems out there that can have a detection range of up to a meter. MOST systems are very close range "contact-less" swipes or taps but it's possible that they could install longer range detectors in turn stiles, doorways or other areas where they want to read the RFID tag from a greater distance. If they intend on using this technology with ride elements it almost guarantees that they are employing some kind of longer range detection systems unless they are going to have you tap or swipe your card in the middle of the attraction.
I'm not wearing my "tin hat" yet but I do wonder if TWDC will be forthcoming about the detection methods they intend to use with RFID. I'm not concerned about the privacy implications but man could they have some very granular data about guest activity.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I'm not talking about the technology - I'm talking about what Disney has IMPLEMENTED. We know what they are doing - because they've been doing this for years already on the ships and the hotel systems are the same.
The tunrstyle systems were already shown to be contact systems in the earlier testing. And who is to say they won't solve the ride system issue by just having you swipe your card as you enter the vehicle or right inside the vehicle
And if you have room-charging privileges on the card, they know exactly what you are spending your money on, too.
But they aren't really a leader, as RFID isn't new technology. And nothing they are really doing with the technology is anything the average guest will really care about. Are some of its applications interesting? Perhaps. But it's nothing park guests can't live without and the money invested would be best served on maintenance, upkeep and new attractions.
Why? They simply raise the prices when they need to increase their bottom line.[/quote]
automation85
Member
I disagree. It takes a lot more to get real information from these cards. Yes, someone could steal the ID and put it on another card, but that is no different than if your were staying at another resort, and someone else wrote down your room number on a meal bill. As was mentioned before, your credit card information is not stored directly on the card. It should be pretty obvious at the end of your trip when you review your bill if someone else had charged something to your room.
As Tom said:
Hoop Raeb
Formerly known as...
You can see the RFID scanner on the door here on the Dream (right above the door handle). As others have said, it's not like you stand a foot away from the door and it unlocks. You basically have to have the card right next to the reader (usually touching) to unlock the door.
flynnibus
Premium Member
This is shortsighted thinking. The power is in the knowledge and services that it can ultimately offer by having this - not that RFID itself is the endgame or what the company itself is developing as something new. It's about what they will use the RFID technology for and apply it's capabilities to new services, business needs, and offerings.
Disney is investing in this to try to put distance between themselves and their competition. It's an integrated services platform that someone can't just clone like they can clone a stand-alone attraction.
flynnibus
Premium Member
His example was someone cloning your card without physically having access to it, and using the card to gain access to your ROOM - not your credit card info.
If the card were just a straight ID code - no reason why that shouldn't work and is a serious risk.
automation85
Member
Sorry, I misread.
However, If you are concerned about someone stealing things from your room, don't bring anything that valuable that can't fit into a safe. Do I seriously think people are going to stalk you? Not really. If you feel like someone may be out to get you, go buy a foil holder. As I am not a high roller, I don't think that anyone will really be interested in my dirty laundry.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Criminals aren't really that picky... when they are out looking for opportunities, they don't need to stalk you first... just have the elements line up properly and they will strike.
The threat is real - its up to the individual to decide how much they put at risk.
I really gotta think they have something more than just an ID card though to prevent cloning. Maybe some sort of time element.. but that too could be duplicated. So unsure what they have on the card itself to prevent cloning unless it's some sort of challenge/response system.
The threat is real - its up to the individual to decide how much they put at risk.
I really gotta think they have something more than just an ID card though to prevent cloning. Maybe some sort of time element.. but that too could be duplicated. So unsure what they have on the card itself to prevent cloning unless it's some sort of challenge/response system.
Tom
Beta Return
RE: Criminals Stealing My Card ID #: Apparently I'm not as concerned about this as some people are. I put a Visa CC on my room. If there end up being fraudulent charges on my bill at the end of the week - BAM, Visa takes care of it. And the most expensive thing that is ever in my room is a tablet/netbook....and they fit in all the safes I've experienced. I'm more worried about someone dodging in and out real quick while housekeeping props open 2 doors at a time, than I am about someone loitering in a Disney resort hallway with a complete Mr. Gadget kit so he can see which room I'm in, scan my card, produce a fake card, and go into my room only to find my giant pile of socks in the corner. Besides, how long is one criminal going to creepily hang out in a hotel hallway before SOMEONE (Manager, Housekeeping, Maintenance, Guests, etc) say something? He's going to be able to try it on one room, tops, per resort or building.
RE: Proximity: With doors, the proximity sensor is set to 0 (i.e. touch). Same for the "Orbs on a Stick" that they used to test FP+. They will likely set their "Painless Payment" systems the same way, just like many credit card terminals already do that accept Credit Cards with the )))) symbol on them. They don't want to be able to scan it from your pocket to make a purchase. They need to see it in your hand, and to be within an inch or so of the device.
They will indeed use long-range proximity readers at queues, ride exits, gift shop exits, smoking areas, bus stops and other key areas throughout property. This type of application will tell them how many people are waiting for buses or using smoking areas. They'll count guests using park restrooms, and dispatch custodial accordingly based on usage (and they'll be able to target and project labor more accurately, putting more custodians in a certain area at higher usage times). They'll scan you as you come off a ride, and at the exit of it's gift show, so if you're one who gets off Pirates and sprints through the gift shop....you just get counted. If you linger, you'll get e-mails with marketing literature for pirate merchandise.
They'll know how many times you ride a certain ride. They'll know ACTUAL wait times without using the red cards, because they'll scan you at the queue entrance and at load....and they'll be doing it continuously for every guest with a readable ID.
RE: Benefits: There's no doubt that this technology will benefit Disney more than it will the guest. But, at the same time, some of those Disney benefits could trickle down as indirect guest benefits. As with the example above about the restrooms, there's no doubt in my mind that they'll count visits to the bathroom (not individually, but as an aggregate), and will thus be able to schedule custodial labor and stock supplies in a more efficient manner. While Disney will save money on labor, the guests will also benefit in more appropriately maintained restrooms.
And, if they utilize it correctly at bus stops, they'll be able to actually dispatch buses to the depots that have guest waiting at them (instead of sending 3 buses to an empty stop, which we ALL know they are well known for doing now).
But as others have said, they will use this technology as a method of collecting data en mass. A large portion of the $Billion will undoubtedly go toward storage servers and data processing computers...plus the software they're probably writing themselves, or in partnership with someone like SAP. They're going to track the movement and habits of every guest, analyze it based on every demographic you can imagine, and target market based on purchases, time spent in the parks, time spent at your resort, whether you're using Disney transportation or not, and what types of stuff you buy.
This is data mining to the max, with the added perk of reducing labor and adjusting to crowds better. The cherry on top is that they can add some guest conveniences along the way, and offer things like interactive queues and FP+.
If you look at it the way I do, it's win-win....but there's a much bigger WIN on Disney's side of the fence.
RE: Proximity: With doors, the proximity sensor is set to 0 (i.e. touch). Same for the "Orbs on a Stick" that they used to test FP+. They will likely set their "Painless Payment" systems the same way, just like many credit card terminals already do that accept Credit Cards with the )))) symbol on them. They don't want to be able to scan it from your pocket to make a purchase. They need to see it in your hand, and to be within an inch or so of the device.
They will indeed use long-range proximity readers at queues, ride exits, gift shop exits, smoking areas, bus stops and other key areas throughout property. This type of application will tell them how many people are waiting for buses or using smoking areas. They'll count guests using park restrooms, and dispatch custodial accordingly based on usage (and they'll be able to target and project labor more accurately, putting more custodians in a certain area at higher usage times). They'll scan you as you come off a ride, and at the exit of it's gift show, so if you're one who gets off Pirates and sprints through the gift shop....you just get counted. If you linger, you'll get e-mails with marketing literature for pirate merchandise.
They'll know how many times you ride a certain ride. They'll know ACTUAL wait times without using the red cards, because they'll scan you at the queue entrance and at load....and they'll be doing it continuously for every guest with a readable ID.
RE: Benefits: There's no doubt that this technology will benefit Disney more than it will the guest. But, at the same time, some of those Disney benefits could trickle down as indirect guest benefits. As with the example above about the restrooms, there's no doubt in my mind that they'll count visits to the bathroom (not individually, but as an aggregate), and will thus be able to schedule custodial labor and stock supplies in a more efficient manner. While Disney will save money on labor, the guests will also benefit in more appropriately maintained restrooms.
And, if they utilize it correctly at bus stops, they'll be able to actually dispatch buses to the depots that have guest waiting at them (instead of sending 3 buses to an empty stop, which we ALL know they are well known for doing now).
But as others have said, they will use this technology as a method of collecting data en mass. A large portion of the $Billion will undoubtedly go toward storage servers and data processing computers...plus the software they're probably writing themselves, or in partnership with someone like SAP. They're going to track the movement and habits of every guest, analyze it based on every demographic you can imagine, and target market based on purchases, time spent in the parks, time spent at your resort, whether you're using Disney transportation or not, and what types of stuff you buy.
This is data mining to the max, with the added perk of reducing labor and adjusting to crowds better. The cherry on top is that they can add some guest conveniences along the way, and offer things like interactive queues and FP+.
If you look at it the way I do, it's win-win....but there's a much bigger WIN on Disney's side of the fence.
TubaGeek
God bless the "Ignore" button.
Certain backstage areas use large "gate" scanners. Essentially a thick, plastic door frame, you can roll a cart of costumes through it and it will pick up each individual RFID imbedded within each one.
I can't imagine it will be long before there's a (hopefully stealthier) version of these gates littered all around the parks! Keep track of how many people are in ANY location constantly!
Tom
Beta Return
That's exactly what they're going to do. No, I don't have sources....it's just instinct. They're already using the technology in its crude form. All we're waiting on now is for the software/servers to be perfected, and for them to install the infrastructure all over the park.
Lots more fiber optics and network connects....so when we start to see a bunch of electrical permits for tunnels and queues and gift shops, we'll know it's starting.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Yes, that's the typical warehouse application for RFID. But it's not the only application possible.. and that's kind of the discussion. One does not mandate the other..
While I think it would be cool... I think a company like Disney will be too scare of the potential media wave about 'tracking people', etc.. and ultimately stick to methods where guests have to initiate an action to be 'seen' by the system. Just look at how much bad press they got over the bioscanners.. imagine what it would be like when people say 'Disney is tracking your every move!!' - even tho they can already in many different ways. The hysteria and bad press alone is probably enough to scare Disney into smaller applications.