tirian
Well-Known Member
I would say this horse is pretty much hamburger...
I would like extra cheese and no pickles.
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New Jim Hill article
- Thread starter SSE
- Start date
I would like extra cheese and no pickles.
yankspy
Well-Known Member
I do not think that disney could care less about the diehards. I just think that some of the comments made by them are a little self-centered. An example of this is soarin. I have heard many diehards say that soarin needs a new movie. Many do not realize that for a lot of people this is still a new attraction. It is unfair to hold all of disney for the comments of one person. As far as rewarding the big spenders. What about the perks for disney visa? What about the dining card for annual passholders? I am sure there are more that I am not thinking of. As far as your comments about Alien Encounter. There were a lot of people who loved that attraction(including me). You might want to consider that everyone has different tastes.I guess we can be happy that at least one imagineer looks at our comments.Also it shouldn't matter if your a passholder or first time guest, the attraction should be designed to please both parties. Its kinda sad that Disney could care less about those who spend a lot of time and money at the parks. There really should be a frequent visitor program to reward those who spend a lot of time and money at Disney. Magic Kingdom club was a nice perk, but as usual that was yanked. Now I know why.:hammer:Maybe Disney should take a cue from Vegas and reward its big spenders. Most companies do, its good customer service. Truthfully I hope this twit gets fired for his cry baby comments. I know his comments have made me think less of Disney and thats never good for business.
PS
I bet this is the turd who designed Alien Encounter and The Tiki Room under Horrible Management.:kiss:
ryguy
Well-Known Member
Nice use of the Urban Dictionary. Unfortunately I am not a kool aid drinker for everything Disney. As long as the critism is legit and well thought out, I think its fair game. Doesn't make the person saying it a hater of Disney. I believe everyone here loves Disney, thats why we visit this site. It wouldn't be a very entertaining place if we blew sunshine in every post and didn't have a honest discussion about our differences. Call me crazy but I still think its bad business to have comments coming from your employees saying negative things about your customers. Needless to say I would be ed if my employess were telling my best(and Loyal) customers that they are a pain in the rear. Just my opionion.:wave:
Enderikari
Well-Known Member
Wazzat? Its a fark-ism. I breed true.
Ha! Now I know you're trolling, Disney doesn't even SELL Kool-Aid! :animwink:
Agreed, but I have yet to see any legit and well thought-out criticism. I await with bated breath.
Nope, it makes them something, but I don't know what...
To a point, but that's really not at issue here.
Right, let's talk about honest discussion from the man who starts name-calling the people responsible for the overlay to Enchanted Tiki Room, and the design of Alien Encounter (I thought that was a "much beloved attraction everyone was sad to see go?)
OK
Right, up and to the point where those "loyal customers" are doing nothing but walking into your store, pointing, laughing, name-calling and just generally tormenting your employees on a daily basis. Something tells me that you may want to step in and do something to protect your employees from harassment (which, have no illusions, a lot of this internet stuff amounts to). Otherwise, I do have to call to task your management style/abilities. (You would, wouldn't you? I hope so)
Mine too, everyone is entitled to one.
nibblesandbits
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm always behind and usually kill these kinds of threads...so after I state my peace, this thread will essentially die...:lol:
Couldn't agree more with you! I know if I kept feeling like I put my heart and soul into something, only to get it beaten down constantly by people who had nothing to do with the project, I'd be upset too.
I think it should be reversed...I'm happy to have a C or D ticket attraction that has the budget of an E ticket. That means they can plus out certain things more...like the queue. We've all seen pics of the queue now...it's amazing. It's more than likely, if they hadn't had the E Ticket money...that queue (and the outside of the attraction as well) probably wouldn't be nearly as interesting as it is now. I mean for pete sake...there's a state of the art AA in the queue that you only get to see if you're waiting in stand by!
I don't expect an E ticket attraction every time Disney builds something new...no matter what the "budget" says the attraction should be. I think that's a problem a lot of people have lately. They expect everything built to be built to E ticket standards. I look at the concept of the ride and to me, this concept says solid D ticket attraction.
As you can see, I agreed with your first part...
The Potato Head comment...we did see some people who weren't impressed by Potato Head. (Some of those are no longer with us, however) I know I was impressed, but note, not everyone thought it was as cool as it really is. I still can't wait to see it in person!
I couldn't agree with this more either! Thank you Imagineers for all the hard work that you put into what you do. There are some of us around here who do appreciate the blood, sweat, and tears you put into what you do, despite anything that may hinder your process.
I couldn't agree more. When I first started out on these forums and learning about new rides, I couldn't get enough of spoilers. I wanted to see all the videos of attractions. There was an attraction that had just been built (I can't for the life of me remember what it was right now...man how I wish I could.) and I looked up the ride video before I actually went on the ride.
Biggest mistake I could have made. I ended up feeling disappointed in the ride b/c I had already "exprienced" it through everything I saw and read.
Now, I go into refurbs and new attractions without trying to spoil as much. I always go into an attraction with an open mind, no matter what I may have heard about it previously. (It is hard to miss the praise or criticisms when you don't get to go down as often as people like you Adam who live down there). I may read some spoilers, but don't think real hard about where they are or how they play out. I only read them so I get an idea of what goes on. Last, I watch absolutely no video of these attractions. This way, I'm completely surprised.
This worked for me on my last trip. I wasn't nearly as disappointed as others were at MILF. I actually thought it was cute. Sure, it's only good one time per trip for me...but it was still cute. I saw HM without any previews, and we all know that turned out well. Finding Nemo at AK and The Seas With Nemo, I hadn't seen anything of...and I loved those too. I haven't seen SSE yet, but I will go into it with an open mind and not have the disappointment and intense criticism I've heard influence my opinion. Nor will I let anything I hear about TSMM effect what I think of the ride.
It is better going into it, as you said, with more of a first timer attitude. You seem to enjoy things more. Or at least I do.
Agreed.
I agree with this statement too. The pickyness is getting really old. It's one thing to have maybe a legitimate criticism...but compaining for the sake of complaining...or even having a legitimate criticism, but then beating it to the ground over and over again...is REALLY really tiresome! And it happens way too often here.
Couldn't agree more with you! I know if I kept feeling like I put my heart and soul into something, only to get it beaten down constantly by people who had nothing to do with the project, I'd be upset too.
I think it should be reversed...I'm happy to have a C or D ticket attraction that has the budget of an E ticket. That means they can plus out certain things more...like the queue. We've all seen pics of the queue now...it's amazing. It's more than likely, if they hadn't had the E Ticket money...that queue (and the outside of the attraction as well) probably wouldn't be nearly as interesting as it is now. I mean for pete sake...there's a state of the art AA in the queue that you only get to see if you're waiting in stand by!
I don't expect an E ticket attraction every time Disney builds something new...no matter what the "budget" says the attraction should be. I think that's a problem a lot of people have lately. They expect everything built to be built to E ticket standards. I look at the concept of the ride and to me, this concept says solid D ticket attraction.
As you can see, I agreed with your first part...
The Potato Head comment...we did see some people who weren't impressed by Potato Head. (Some of those are no longer with us, however) I know I was impressed, but note, not everyone thought it was as cool as it really is. I still can't wait to see it in person!
I couldn't agree with this more either! Thank you Imagineers for all the hard work that you put into what you do. There are some of us around here who do appreciate the blood, sweat, and tears you put into what you do, despite anything that may hinder your process.
I couldn't agree more. When I first started out on these forums and learning about new rides, I couldn't get enough of spoilers. I wanted to see all the videos of attractions. There was an attraction that had just been built (I can't for the life of me remember what it was right now...man how I wish I could.) and I looked up the ride video before I actually went on the ride.
Biggest mistake I could have made. I ended up feeling disappointed in the ride b/c I had already "exprienced" it through everything I saw and read.
Now, I go into refurbs and new attractions without trying to spoil as much. I always go into an attraction with an open mind, no matter what I may have heard about it previously. (It is hard to miss the praise or criticisms when you don't get to go down as often as people like you Adam who live down there). I may read some spoilers, but don't think real hard about where they are or how they play out. I only read them so I get an idea of what goes on. Last, I watch absolutely no video of these attractions. This way, I'm completely surprised.
This worked for me on my last trip. I wasn't nearly as disappointed as others were at MILF. I actually thought it was cute. Sure, it's only good one time per trip for me...but it was still cute. I saw HM without any previews, and we all know that turned out well. Finding Nemo at AK and The Seas With Nemo, I hadn't seen anything of...and I loved those too. I haven't seen SSE yet, but I will go into it with an open mind and not have the disappointment and intense criticism I've heard influence my opinion. Nor will I let anything I hear about TSMM effect what I think of the ride.
It is better going into it, as you said, with more of a first timer attitude. You seem to enjoy things more. Or at least I do.
Agreed.
I agree with this statement too. The pickyness is getting really old. It's one thing to have maybe a legitimate criticism...but compaining for the sake of complaining...or even having a legitimate criticism, but then beating it to the ground over and over again...is REALLY really tiresome! And it happens way too often here.
t3techcom18
Well-Known Member
I honestly don't know what to make of the whole ordeal. While I agree that, if, someone insults you and bashes your work that you've been doing for the who knows how many, but even then, if you can't criticism, then, like the phrase goes, "If you can't handle the heat, then get out of the kitchen."
I"m involved with my school's theater program, and believe me, when it comes time for Tech Week (aka the last week before a show/during, with all final elements in place; our own version of Test and Adjust), our teacher is HARD on us, setting impossible deadlines, comments about movements or scenes that we hadn't heard before after countless times of watching it, even stuff that we had since day one and wants to change it, yeah, people WOULD be angry about that. But even then, with all that, you HAVE to keep in mind that stress does things to people, PLUS you just have to keep going if you have those types of comments going your way. Be constructive and use it to your own advantage. Exploit it, use it to see what other advantages you could use in the future, ie, what to do and what not to do.
Sure, theater has a LOT more flexibility than theme park rides. But even then, who's to say that they're good on their own account? The audience says if they're good or not. If this bites SSE's fiasco in the rear, look at what my teacher said in regards to our last production that we did: We were running behind, despite the accounts of having TONS of work that we did, installing, painting sets, etc. What did she say however, that got us all riled up and, at the same time, drew a parallel to the SSE fiasco? "If I'm not comfortorable with it, or if it's unfinished, I won't show this to people." If SHE said that bout our show, then WHY couldn't WDI do the same thing?
That brings me to my other nitpick about this. It almost seems as if this Imagineer is covering their A$$ with saying what they said. Yes, I understand that budgets happen and it cuts stuff, or execs wanting to change things cause they want it differently, and I understand, that's a HUGE pain to have on top of your shoulders, 24/7; but with this Imagineer saying that they build rides for one-timers and people who visit every so once in a while, yet a good chunk of populous that keeps the people going throughout the year are locals who happen to be Passholders or just come all the time. How are THEY gunna feel about that? Sure, it's nice to entice and have new reasons for one-timers and people who don't visit often to go the parks, but what are you going to do about the people who visit all the time, see everything over and over again, and have nothing new to go to? Therefore, if that stays the way it is, they will lose money, more so, lose interest in the parks, as people will then think that it's boring. That would be a MAJOR loss. Disney isn't a new company; they don't need to establish a connection with an audience; they've had one for nearly the past 60 or 70 so years. They just need to have more for those who regulary go instead of creating reasons for new people to go.
Annnd lastly, my last nitpick is with people saying that JH's letter is forgery. I want to know why many think this, cause I like his columns honestly. Is there some days where it's just plain crappy? Sure, all writers have their bad days. Does he have bad grammar sometimes? Definitely so, but I don't let it get to me. Is he negative lots of times? Yes, however, when your speaking truth, it may not be pretty. There's more than just good news in the world today folks. You need to see both sides of the news, both good AND bad, even if it's with your favorite stuff. I'm gunna do something I usually do in my Debate class honestly, and they mention on here so much for these types of news: Source? Where's the source saying this info is false? I don't want to turn this into a firestorm, I just want to know why you guys are saying this. :wave:
I"m involved with my school's theater program, and believe me, when it comes time for Tech Week (aka the last week before a show/during, with all final elements in place; our own version of Test and Adjust), our teacher is HARD on us, setting impossible deadlines, comments about movements or scenes that we hadn't heard before after countless times of watching it, even stuff that we had since day one and wants to change it, yeah, people WOULD be angry about that. But even then, with all that, you HAVE to keep in mind that stress does things to people, PLUS you just have to keep going if you have those types of comments going your way. Be constructive and use it to your own advantage. Exploit it, use it to see what other advantages you could use in the future, ie, what to do and what not to do.
Sure, theater has a LOT more flexibility than theme park rides. But even then, who's to say that they're good on their own account? The audience says if they're good or not. If this bites SSE's fiasco in the rear, look at what my teacher said in regards to our last production that we did: We were running behind, despite the accounts of having TONS of work that we did, installing, painting sets, etc. What did she say however, that got us all riled up and, at the same time, drew a parallel to the SSE fiasco? "If I'm not comfortorable with it, or if it's unfinished, I won't show this to people." If SHE said that bout our show, then WHY couldn't WDI do the same thing?
That brings me to my other nitpick about this. It almost seems as if this Imagineer is covering their A$$ with saying what they said. Yes, I understand that budgets happen and it cuts stuff, or execs wanting to change things cause they want it differently, and I understand, that's a HUGE pain to have on top of your shoulders, 24/7; but with this Imagineer saying that they build rides for one-timers and people who visit every so once in a while, yet a good chunk of populous that keeps the people going throughout the year are locals who happen to be Passholders or just come all the time. How are THEY gunna feel about that? Sure, it's nice to entice and have new reasons for one-timers and people who don't visit often to go the parks, but what are you going to do about the people who visit all the time, see everything over and over again, and have nothing new to go to? Therefore, if that stays the way it is, they will lose money, more so, lose interest in the parks, as people will then think that it's boring. That would be a MAJOR loss. Disney isn't a new company; they don't need to establish a connection with an audience; they've had one for nearly the past 60 or 70 so years. They just need to have more for those who regulary go instead of creating reasons for new people to go.
Annnd lastly, my last nitpick is with people saying that JH's letter is forgery. I want to know why many think this, cause I like his columns honestly. Is there some days where it's just plain crappy? Sure, all writers have their bad days. Does he have bad grammar sometimes? Definitely so, but I don't let it get to me. Is he negative lots of times? Yes, however, when your speaking truth, it may not be pretty. There's more than just good news in the world today folks. You need to see both sides of the news, both good AND bad, even if it's with your favorite stuff. I'm gunna do something I usually do in my Debate class honestly, and they mention on here so much for these types of news: Source? Where's the source saying this info is false? I don't want to turn this into a firestorm, I just want to know why you guys are saying this. :wave:
blm07
Active Member
It doesn't bother me if the attraction is originally film based. What bothers me is when they replace props or animatronics with screens.
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
Jim Hill is partial to Boabbie so hes biased to begin with. But where would we be without a bit of attention seeking.
SDav10495
Member
Aacck, there's too much to talk about in this thread...but I would like to quickly (and politely) respond to this:
As one of the people who made what amounted to a forgery claim (on page 6 of this thread), let me just explain again here: I am not anti-JHM. I read Jim's columns all the time and usually find something informative in them, even if they haven't been especially...exciting of late. I raised suspicion about the e-mails used in this column only after I realized (remember, I'm a frequent JHM reader) that the writing style of both e-mails was extremely similar to Jim's own. It's not as if I decided I didn't like what the e-mails had to say and went off crying "forgery" to discredit them somehow (and I don't think that's what most others did, either). The questions of authenticity arose because of a legitimate similarity in style.
Others have been defending Jim by saying that he's probably just paraphrasing what his sources said, and so his own unique voice worked its way into the writing. As I said in my previous post, that would be absolutely fine--but since he hasn't revealed that that's the case, there is still reason to doubt. He should really let his readers know if he is going to do that.
As one of the people who made what amounted to a forgery claim (on page 6 of this thread), let me just explain again here: I am not anti-JHM. I read Jim's columns all the time and usually find something informative in them, even if they haven't been especially...exciting of late. I raised suspicion about the e-mails used in this column only after I realized (remember, I'm a frequent JHM reader) that the writing style of both e-mails was extremely similar to Jim's own. It's not as if I decided I didn't like what the e-mails had to say and went off crying "forgery" to discredit them somehow (and I don't think that's what most others did, either). The questions of authenticity arose because of a legitimate similarity in style.
Others have been defending Jim by saying that he's probably just paraphrasing what his sources said, and so his own unique voice worked its way into the writing. As I said in my previous post, that would be absolutely fine--but since he hasn't revealed that that's the case, there is still reason to doubt. He should really let his readers know if he is going to do that.
SDav10495
Member
Hmm...interesting. I'm no WDI expert, so I have no clue whether or not the idea I have (based on the hints) is correct...
tirian
Well-Known Member
Aack! My eyes! Steve, thank you for operating a visually pleasing website!
As for Spirit's posts on LP...he has fairly good sources, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's right. Like I said earlier, WDI is not as tight-lipped as Disney wants us to believe, but most of the rumors that make it online are 100% false.
T-1MILLION
New Member
This I could not agree with more.
I don't think anyone ever really slams Imagineering for lack of creativity. We know the teams are full of it and when Imagineers such as Joe Rhode, and Tony Baxter are let out of their cages (given a good buget) great things happen. As I feel they would with anything. It is just sad to be that we have to see budget cuts at any theme park attraction from Disney.
The Imagineers always seem to do their best with what they are given. I am sure even some of them hate some directions the parks take (personally Toy Story Mania is not my cup of tea, but that is fine, others will enjoy it)
I just personally think that the executive level is lacking some creativity in certain areas, soley my opinion here. Always respect for Imagineers who do their best with that they have.....
but I see a problem with the upper level creaivity when we have another Toy Story based attraction that has the same general premise of scoring high points by targeting things virtual or real set in a dark ride. I don't blame the Imagineers for that though, I perosnally blame the constant synergy that is being forced on them. Synergy is great at times and as many know Walt Disney's original design was mostly based off of his tv and movies, but it became so much more that even Walt oversaw original concepts, now I feel that Toy Story Mania was a good idea to launch on the exectuve whim just because Toy Story 3 is going in the works.
I may get bashed for all of this, but that is just my opinion in some areas of the company.
Imagineers, keep up the good work where the big shots let you!
:wave:
WWallaceII
Active Member
:lol: