News New Haunted Mansion Grounds Expansion, Retail Shop Coming to Disneyland Resort in 2024

[Phroobar]

Why does it have to be hell to get it done? If they re not even aware of it that’s a problem. Imagineers should definitely care about it. Dropping the ball on all these little things and lack of attention to detail shows me why many of the bigger projects are soulless and lackluster.

I think these groups are working on their latest project. Once the project is done, Imagineers go on to the next project. I really don't think in a huge corporation they are going to watch over a park's daily operations group to make sure the grass is watered and not replaced.

 

[Disney Irish]

I wonder if there is anyone at imagineering who can go up to the powers that be and say “the lawn is an important part of the queue and should have real grass. It would cost nothing to keep this little patch of grass green.” I feel like WDI used to have these kind of guys. Who fought for this kind of stuff. Is WDI just lacking savvy creatives that have some pull and know how to talk to the suits? Is the greed in corporate America just at a level that leaves these creatives absolutely powerless? Is Disney making a point of only hiring people who lean the way they do socio-politically?

This wouldn't likely fall under WDI, it would fall under Operations, so likely someone with TDA made the decision.

 

[mickEblu]

This wouldn't likely fall under WDI, it would fall under Operations, so likely someone with TDA made the decision.

I think these groups are working on their latest project. Once the project is done, Imagineers go on to the next project. I really don't think in a huge corporation they are going to watch over a park's daily operations group to make sure the grass is watered and not replaced.

Even during a big refurb / expansion like this? WDI had no say or opportunity to course correct? If true, that seems wrong in the theme park business.

 

[Too Many Hats]

I wonder if there is anyone at imagineering who can go up to the powers that be and say “the lawn is an important part of the queue and should have real grass. It would cost nothing to keep this little patch of grass green.” I feel like WDI used to have these kind of guys. Who fought for this kind of stuff. Is WDI just lacking savvy creatives that have some pull and know how to talk to the suits?

100%. WDI leadership in 2024 is afraid to say "no." Baxter, Rohde, etc. were willing to fight these battles.

 

[Disney Irish]

Even during a big refurb like this? WDI had no say or opportunity to course correct? If true, that seems wrong in the theme park business.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but landscaping like this falls under Operations/Maintenance I believe, which is controlled by TDA. So if TDA has a Park wide initiative to replace a majority of grass with astroturf then its what WDI would do I would think. Plus wasn't it already astroturf before the refurb, so they are just putting back what was already there.

I'm sure some in WDI don't like the idea, but as was pointed out it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to fight.

 

[mickEblu]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but landscaping like this falls under Operations/Maintenance I believe, which is controlled by TDA. So if TDA has a Park wide initiative to replace a majority of grass with astroturf then its what WDI would do I would think. Plus wasn't it already astroturf before the refurb, so they are just putting back what was already there.

I'm sure some in WDI don't like the idea, but as was pointed out it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to fight.

Well then the system is broken and needs to be fixed if that’s the case. Creatives should have more say in things like this. As should a suit working for a creative company. With that said you still have grass in many areas of the park which makes it even more of a head scratcher.

It was already turf so they had more time to prepare their argument on why it should not have been brought back.

 

[Disney Irish]

Well then the system is broken and needs to be fixed if that’s the case. Creatives should have more say in things like this. With that said you still have grass in many areas of the park which makes it even more of a head scratcher.

It was already turf so they had more time to prepare their argument on why it should not have been brought back.

As Operations/Maintenance has to deal with these type of things daily, sometimes that trumps what the creatives think should be done. Just because something might seem more appealing doesn't mean its the easiest to deal with or not more costly in the long run.

Also I'm sure a bit of grass is not a hill that many in WDI wants to die on in terms of creative battles.

 

[mickEblu]

As Operations/Maintenance has to deal with these type of things daily, sometimes that trumps what the creatives think should be done. Just because something might seem more appealing doesn't mean its the easiest to deal with or not more costly in the long run.

Also I'm sure a bit of grass is not a hill that many in WDI wants to die on in terms of creative battles.

No it’s probably not. I’m just wondering if they care, notice or have any say at all.

 

[Disney Irish]

No it’s probably not. I’m just wondering if they care, notice or have any say at all.

I'm sure many care, but I'm sure those that do get over ruled. I myself in my own job fight battles all the time for doing what is in the betterment of a product, but that doesn't mean it gets approved just because I have a compelling argument. As the powers that be look at things beyond just the outward pleasing factor of whatever is being discussed. They have to look at all factors, many that you may feel are not important but are actually very important to the overall organization especially in the long term.

So I get where you're coming from, but I think there is more there than you realize in terms of reasons why a decision like this was made and why WDI doesn't just come in and make changes.

 

[chadwpalm]

No it’s probably not. I’m just wondering if they care, notice or have any say at all.

The designers always have a say, but it's the ones writing the checks that make the final decision.

It's no different anywhere else in the building industry. I've worked in the past as a drafter for architects, landscape architects, HVAC/Plumbing designers, etc. There are certain elements of a project that need strict adherence due to building codes, but other things that are purely design elements are nothing more than a designers preferences or recommendations. The developers, who are the ones paying the contractors, can change what they want to save money as long as it doesn't break any adherence to code.

We would spec out higher costing bathroom exhaust fans because we knew they were of good quality and would do the job efficiently, but 95% of the time the contractor would call for much cheaper products on their bids and win because it was saving the developers money. Sadly, at the end of the day, it may call for a lesser experience for the end-user, but it's also likely those more expensive luxuries would increase the cost of the homes, or in most cases, the bottom line of the profits for the developers. That's just the way the real world works.

Yes, imagineers like Baxter and Rohde were known to fight for things, and sometimes they won and sometimes they lost. Tarzan Treehouse was a good example. Baxter wanted to make it more elaborate, but the pencil pushers said no, we won't increase the budget as we don't anticipate a large ROI. Sadly, the crowds came and the pencil pushers had egg on their faces.....but at the end of the day, they still had final say.

 

[lazyboy97o]

FAM (Facility Asset Management) is responsible for maintaining existing park assets, but they’re not allowed/supposed to change the design of any space. They can replace like-for-like but design changes have to be directed by Walt Disney Imagineering. Actual changes to the physical configuration of spaces will also require the hiring of licensed design professions (which includes landscape architects), but they don’t have free rein to do whatever. Disney is also large enough and builds enough that they have their own standards, systems and products that they use which must be used by the designers and contractors.

 

[mickEblu]

FAM (Facility Asset Management) is responsible for maintaining existing park assets, but they’re not allowed/supposed to change the design of any space. They can replace like-for-like but design changes have to be directed by Walt Disney Imagineering. Actual changes to the physical configuration of spaces will also require the hiring of licensed design professions (which includes landscape architects), but they don’t have free rein to do whatever. Disney is also large enough and builds enough that they have their own standards, systems and products that they use which must be used by the designers and contractors.

So would replacing real grass for turf count as “like for like” thus not requiring WDI’s approval?

 

[Disney Irish]

So would replacing real grass for turf count as “like for like” thus not requiring WDI’s approval?

Let me answer you by turning the question around on you -

Why would WDI need to approve landscaping changes that has no bearing on the overall story or design of an attraction, such as changing grass for turf?

 

[Disney Analyst]

This is what happens.

Someone higher up, executive level, decreed that grass be replaced where possible, with turf. Perhaps based on feedback from Park Ops, perhaps not. Landscaping / Ops outlines the areas they could swap, to meet the mandate, making executive happy who approves the project, and they complete the task assigned.

Now say WDI comes over to start a refurb of Mansion, and perhaps the lead of that project wants to restore lawns back to real grass, but then finds out this was an executive decision, and so when they present that part of the design, there is no approval given to restore the lawn...

As such, WDI moves on to other approved aspects of their project, and the cycle continues.

 

[Disney Irish]

This is what happens.

Someone higher up, executive level, decreed that grass be replaced where possible, with turf. Perhaps based on feedback from Park Ops, perhaps not. Landscaping / Ops outlines the areas they could swap, to meet the mandate, making executive happy who approves the project, and they complete the task assigned.

Now say WDI comes over to start a refurb of Mansion, and perhaps the lead of that project wants to restore lawns back to real grass, but then finds out this was an executive decision, and so when they present that part of the design, there is no approval given to restore the lawn...

As such, WDI moves on to other approved aspects of their project, and the cycle continues.

And thus is the circle of life in corporations as large as Disney.

 

[Disney Analyst]

And thus is the circle of life in corporations as large as Disney.

I'd add, evidence shows WDI is aware of the initiative, as their recent designs that include grass have all been turf (ToonTown, & Downtown Disney)

 

[Disney Irish]

I'd add, evidence shows WDI is aware of the initiative, as their recent designs that include grass have all been turf (ToonTown, & Downtown Disney)

Agreed, and as I mentioned before its just a hill that they don't want to die on in terms of design changes.

Its in times like these I remember the Golden Rule, those that have the gold makes the rules.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Agreed, and as I mentioned before its just a hill that they don't want to die on in terms of design changes.

Its in times like these I remember the Golden Rule, those that have the gold makes the rules.

I mean, WDI are salaried employees. Like any company they are given their tasks and mandates from the higher ups, and while they can suggest things, propose changes, make requests, park wide decisions like turf instead of grass is not something they likely have much say in, or much sway to reverse course on.

 

[Disney Irish]

I mean, WDI are salaried employees. Like any company they are given their tasks and mandates from the higher ups, and while they can suggest things, propose changes, make requests, park wide decisions like turf instead of grass is not something they likely have much say in, or much sway to reverse course on.

The problem is too many in the fandom have this fantasized version of WDI in their head of the rock star Imagineer just coming in and dictating how things will be. Unfortunately that couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Disney Analyst]

The problem is too many in the fandom have this fantasized version of WDI in their head of the rock star Imagineer just coming in and dictating how things will be. Unfortunately that couldn't be further from the truth.

It may have been, but that was long ago.