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mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Some are saying the homicidal bride storyline was removed because it’s problematic/too violent. Has an inside source actually confirmed that this is true? Or is it just speculation?

Kim Irvine confirmed by saying that decapitating husbands was a”weird thing to be celebrating” but ironically I don’t really think that was the motivation to change the scene. I think they wanted to move the scene back closer to the beating heart bride. Just wish they would have went all the way. I feel like bringing up that Constance was too violent in the interview was ill advised and unnecessary.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Well we have come a long way from your original post haven’t we? Where you stated everything as fact and couldn’t believe some of the critiques or the fact that some of us didn’t agree with your head canon and that the bride isn’t supposed to be human.
The only things I have ever affirmed as facts in this topic are that the new bride has stylized and exaggerated features/proportions you would be rare if not unheard of in a real person. And that this is indeed the obvious intent. I also stated that most of the other classic figures in the ride also have exaggerated features. All of this is true.

Anything else I have said, I have been very upfront in stating is an opinion. If for whatever reason you were unclear about this, then pay attention because I will reiterate this now. Because I am about to make the distinction. It is my opinion that her design looks "good" (albeit not scary and therefore also not the ideal design I would like to have). It is my opinion that she looks similar to a hybrid of several Marc Davis character designs. It is my opinion that she doesn't clash against the other figures in the ride. These are opinions. Ones that I am being honest about and I feel I have offered a reasonable analysis for why I have them, but opinions either way. I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with anyone who doesn't agree with these opinions, even if you find it appropriate to mock and insult people who don't adhere to your own.

Some are saying the homicidal bride storyline was removed because it’s problematic/too violent. Has an inside source actually confirmed that this is true? Or is it just speculation?
Kim Irvine said it outright in a direct quote she gave to the LA Times-

“The bride that used to be in there was an axe murderer, and in this day and age we have to be really careful about the sensitivities of people,” Irvine told the LA Times. “We were celebrating someone chopping off her husband’s heads, and it was a weird story. I know the fans — some will like it and some will say, ‘Oh, you changed something again.’ That’s our job. That’s what we’re here for.”
 
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Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
My honest assessment is that the new bride resembles a cross between one of Marc Davis' princess designs (specifically say Aurora or Anita who have fairly narrow features), but mixing in a bit of Maleficent's more exaggerated sharp lanky slender proportions (also a Marc Davis design). But obviously with the usual adaptations needed to convert it to a physical figure. I do believe it fits fine. At least, the best of any of the brides who had visible or semi visible faces (not just Constance, but the other ones they made before her with visible doll-like faces).

I’m struggling to put into words what bothers me about it, but it just feels... off. It’s like they couldn’t settle on an art direction and tried to combine multiple. It’s too realistic to be cartoony, yet still feels like a cartoon. None of the other figures in the ride really blur this line—they’re either completely realistic, like Leota and the Singing Busts, or garishly cartoonish like the rest of the ghosts (for the most part). While this figure is a vast improvement over 2006 Constance, it doesn’t really mesh with the rest of the attraction. For me, at least.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
The only things I have ever affirmed as facts in this topic are that the new bride has stylized and exaggerated features/proportions you would be rare if not unheard of in a real person. And that this is indeed the obvious intent. I also stated that most of the other classic figures in the ride also have exaggerated features. All of this is true.

Anything else I have said, I have been very upfront in stating is an opinion. If for whatever reason you were unclear about this, then pay attention because I will reiterate this now. Because I am about to make the distinction. It is my opinion that her design looks "good" (albeit not scary and therefore also not the ideal design I would like to have). It is my opinion that she looks similar to a hybrid of several Marc Davis character designs. It is my opinion that she doesn't clash against the other figures in the ride. These are opinions. Ones that I am being honest about and I feel I have offered a reasonable analysis for why I have them, but opinions either way. I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with anyone who doesn't agree with these opinions, even if you find it appropriate to mock and insult people who don't adhere to your own.


Kim Irvine said it outright in a direct quote she gave to the LA Times-

“The bride that used to be in there was an axe murderer, and in this day and age we have to be really careful about the sensitivities of people,” Irvine told the LA Times. “We were celebrating someone chopping off her husband’s heads, and it was a weird story. I know the fans — some will like it and some will say, ‘Oh, you changed something again.’ That’s our job. That’s what we’re here for.”

Lol I believe you were the first person to toss out words like “ridiculous” and “crazy.” To be fair you know what you’re getting into when you come for me. That’s why you didn’t reply to any of my posts even though you know your original post below was directed towards me.

To the comments about the bride's face and neck having "unnaturally" long and thin proportions. This is the intended design, she is no longer a replication of a true to life human anymore. Constance was already one of the very small handful of characters that used a video recording of a real live actor's face, same as Leota and the singing busts. However, the remainder and vast majority of the characters in the ride were designed by Marc Davis and had his traditionally stylized and hyper exaggerated facial features that were not supposed to look like real people.

This new bride is definitely no longer trying to look "real", it has very similar features to many of Marc Davis' female characters. I can think of several of his designs off the top of my head that have similarly thin lanky features to this bride in fact. In particular, a bit of Anita from 101 Dalmations and even Maleficent's extremely thin face and neck and her high cheek bones.

If you're not into this style, that's fine. But I do get the sense that some of you outright just didn't even catch the fact that the bride was deliberately redesigned not to look like a real human anymore. I don't usually call people out like this. But I do think some of yall are getting a bit ridiculous with at least some of your criticisms (not all of course as it isn't my personal favorite bride either). And i'm sorry but you may actually be a bit crazy if you think this looks better by comparison, because woof-

View attachment 838814
 

Too Many Hats

Well-Known Member
Kim Irvine confirmed by saying that decapitating husbands was a”weird thing to be celebrating” but ironically I don’t really think that was the motivation to change the scene. I think they wanted to move the scene back closer to the beating heart bride. Just wish they would have went all the way. I feel like bringing up that Constance was too violent in the interview was ill advised and unnecessary.

Agreed. Especially since Kim is allegedly the one who fought to save the hanging Ghost Host (the correct decision, IMO). Maybe she/WDI just doesn’t want to admit Constance never looked great.

Kim Irvine said it outright in a direct quote she gave to the LA Times-

“The bride that used to be in there was an axe murderer, and in this day and age we have to be really careful about the sensitivities of people,” Irvine told the LA Times. “We were celebrating someone chopping off her husband’s heads, and it was a weird story. I know the fans — some will like it and some will say, ‘Oh, you changed something again.’ That’s our job. That’s what we’re here for.”

I like Kim Irvine. But this is the Haunted Mansion. I’m surprised by her comments here.
 

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
For me, at least, one of these things is very much not like the others...

HitchhikingGhostsBlue.webp

busts.jpg

new bride.webp
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I’m struggling to put into words what bothers me about it, but it just feels... off. It’s like they couldn’t settle on an art direction and tried to combine multiple. It’s too realistic to be cartoony, yet still feels like a cartoon. None of the other figures in the ride really blur this line—they’re either completely realistic, like Leota and the Singing Busts, or garishly cartoonish like the rest of the ghosts (for the most part). While this figure is a vast improvement over 2006 Constance, it doesn’t really mesh with the rest of the attraction. For me, at least.
One thing about many of these classic "gag oriented" attractions, especially ones with Marc Davis designs, are that they often used exaggerated features to convey more outrageous and over the top personalities or reactions. An evil person would have much more extreme contortions to the eyebrows, mouth etc, which may also be added on top of other natural exaggerated features. Same goes for other "big" personalities and emotional reactions.

On the opposite end, there were more serious or neutral type characters as well, and these were often given less ridiculous features and expressions. To the point where they looked much more like "normal" humans. And sometimes they would be juxtaposed next to the ridiculous looking characters to give them contrast. Like the redhead in POTC. Or Melanie from Phantom Manor.

I agree with your assessment that the new bride looks like she's not quite realistic but also not quite cartoony either. My reasoning for why I personally think it works is because I think it called for something that wouldn't be appropriately conveyed with either a hyper realistic nor a super cartoony one. I think the slender gaunt features they gave her works with making her look like someone in extreme mourning. And it also makes her look somewhat otherworldly and not quite "normal" as well. Too exaggerated, and the features would look overly comical and disrupt the mood of the scene, but more realistic features could also have its own sort of awkward issues. As much as I love Phantom Manor, I will admit that Melanie doesn't convey sadness in her neutral facial expressions particularly well.

That said, I understand your reasoning and where you're coming from. This IMO is all the more reason why I think the one where we couldn't see her face was the best. It seemed to scare the crap out of nearly everyone even without any implications of violence, and you never had to worry about disagreements over whether it looked "off".

Lol I believe you were the first person to toss out words like “ridiculous” and “crazy.” To be fair you know what you’re getting into when you come for me. That’s why you didn’t reply to any of my posts even though you know your original post below was directed towards me.
If I was singling you out, I can assure you I would quote you and tell you directly as I am now. My comment was directed at several different people pointing out her exaggerated features. You were definitely neither the only one, nor the primary one. Hope that helps you feel a bit better, have a nice day.

I like Kim Irvine. But this is the Haunted Mansion. I’m surprised by her comments here.
I'm admittedly fine with the attic scene not having the explicitly spelled out murder backstory. It wasn't needed in the original, so I can do without it (but I'd prefer they return to something more visually scary).

However, you are absolutely correct in your reaction over the comment. Whether the new scene works or not, the reasons for why they did it are stupid and concerning. It opens up a lot of troubling implications for future projects involving the Mansion, but also any attraction that involves themes of killing in general. The hangman is on borrowed time, i'm sure he won't last. But will they remove other bits of dialog from the host implying that guests should die and become the 1000th spirit. Are we going to see the swords removed from the bodies of the beach skeletons in POTC next? No longer dunk Carlos in the well (and shoot at his wife) because torture is bad? Remove the various Jungle Cruise gags of people being attacked by animals or the gorillas playing with rifles?
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
If I was singling you out, I can assure you I would quote you and tell you directly as I am now. My comment was directed at several different people pointing out her exaggerated features. You were definitely neither the only one, nor the primary one. Hope that helps you feel a bit better, have a nice day.

Mmmm hmmmm

In fact I was the primary one and if not the only one, close to it.
 

Basketbuddy101

Well-Known Member
Just rode last night. The queue is a vast improvement. The new projection mapping effects in the graveyard were tasteful and beautifully done, in my opinion. As for the bride, I do wish they'd gone with the more traditional route of not being able to see her face. You could axe the axe and it would still work nicely. As it's been pointed out, however, their reasoning for the removal itself is frustrating. Conflict and peril, even violence to some degree, are actualities that reflect both the real world and the worlds of "yesterday" and "fantasy." It's yet another example of the kind of thinking that's corrosive to the ethos of this park.
 

Kyle’s Dad Sent Me

Active Member
I would bet that removing the “too violent axe-wielding bride” was the excuse Imagineering drummed up to get the money people to approve the funds for the change. Kim Irvine is probably just repeating that line to maintain the facade. I don’t always like Irvine’s work but after a lifetime with the company I have no doubt she knows how to play the game to get certain things done.
 

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
One thing about many of these classic "gag oriented" attractions, especially ones with Marc Davis designs, are that they often used exaggerated features to convey more outrageous and over the top personalities or reactions. An evil person would have much more extreme contortions to the eyebrows, mouth etc, which may also be added on top of other natural exaggerated features. Same goes for other "big" personalities and emotional reactions.

On the opposite end, there were more serious or neutral type characters as well, and these were often given less ridiculous features and expressions. To the point where they looked much more like "normal" humans. And sometimes they would be juxtaposed next to the ridiculous looking characters to give them contrast. Like the redhead in POTC. Or Melanie from Phantom Manor.

I agree with your assessment that the new bride looks like she's not quite realistic but also not quite cartoony either. My reasoning for why I personally think it works is because I think it called for something that wouldn't be appropriately conveyed with either a hyper realistic nor a super cartoony one. I think the slender gaunt features they gave her works with making her look like someone in extreme mourning. And it also makes her look somewhat otherworldly and not quite "normal" as well. Too exaggerated, and the features would look overly comical and disrupt the mood of the scene, but more realistic features could also have its own sort of awkward issues. As much as I love Phantom Manor, I will admit that Melanie doesn't convey sadness in her neutral facial expressions particularly well.

I think a better concept might have been a similar setup, but with projected slit eyes peering out of the veil that fade in and out instead of an entire face. They could use the same (admittedly impressive) technology to create the illusion of the eyes floating in midair, addressing the concerns over the facial design while serving as a nice callback.
 

Basketbuddy101

Well-Known Member
I would bet that removing the “too violent axe-wielding bride” was the excuse Imagineering drummed up to get the money people to approve the funds for the change. Kim Irvine is probably just repeating that line to maintain the facade. I don’t always like Irvine’s work but after a lifetime with the company I have no doubt she knows how to play the game to get certain things done.
I didn't consider this and I think it makes more sense this way. Either way, I think this is an acceptable change that's mostly in line with the spirit (no pun intended) of this attraction.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I didn't consider this and I think it makes more sense this way. Either way, I think this is an acceptable change that's mostly in line with the spirit (no pun intended) of this attraction.

It’s just sad that they are rarely meeting or exceeding our expectations these days. What does that say for the new DCA additions or potential DL Forward lands/ rides?
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
When you follow this stuff as much as I do it’s easy to see what the wins of this project are. The only two bonafide wins that came from this project seems to be the exterior queue (if you are willing to look past the fact that it cost Magnolia Park) and the thing nobody really saw coming - the crisp new projections in the graveyard. Everything else is a downgrade or mixed bag. The bride is not really impressing me in any videos and is only getting a pass from some because of the fact that what she replaced was also not great. From what I’ve seen I’m not even sure I’ll prefer her to Constance. The shop is an L. The hitchhiking ghosts are a pretty big downgrade. The more videos, photos and reviews I read the more bummed I get. Some people are also giving a pass here because “it could have been worse” and they re comparing to MK’s HHG’s.
 
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Basketbuddy101

Well-Known Member
When you follow this stuff as much as I do it’s easy to see what the wins of this project are. The only two bonafide wins that came from this project seems to be the exterior queue and the thing nobody really saw coming - the crisp new projections in the graveyard. Everything else is a downgrade or mixed bag. The bride is not really impressing me in any videos and is only getting a pass from some because of the fact that what she replaced was also not great. From what I’ve seen I’m not even sure I’ll prefer her to Constance. The shop is an L. The hitchhiking ghosts are a pretty big downgrade. The more videos, photos and reviews I read the more bummed I get. Some people are also giving a pass here because “it could have been worse” and they re comparing to MK’s HHG’s.
I'm right there with you. All good and fair points, and I know on paper, I should be more disheartened but seeing as how they've already destroyed what was most precious to me, well...
1737670089356.png
 

britain

Well-Known Member
Just rode last night. The queue is a vast improvement. The new projection mapping effects in the graveyard were tasteful and beautifully done, in my opinion. As for the bride, I do wish they'd gone with the more traditional route of not being able to see her face. You could axe the axe and it would still work nicely. As it's been pointed out, however, their reasoning for the removal itself is frustrating. Conflict and peril, even violence to some degree, are actualities that reflect both the real world and the worlds of "yesterday" and "fantasy." It's yet another example of the kind of thinking that's corrosive to the ethos of this park.


Ooo! What if they had done everything they just did, with a real dress and veil, but instead of pepper's ghost face, they only did the EYES?! Two glowing lights sitting right where eyes would be under the draped veil, but no head! That would be a real reinvention of the original bride!
 

VicariousCorpse

Well-Known Member
For the Sweethearts Nite event the axe-wielding bride was meeting in the new queue. I don't understand the thinking behind this after the celebrating murder comments. Most likely just different departments that don't communicate so well.

473739305_1029364065901865_7976971265655838434_n.jpg
 

ᗩLᘿᑕ ֊ᗩζᗩᗰ

Hᴏᴜsᴇ ᴏʄ  Mᴀɢɪᴄ
Premium Member
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