News New Haunted Mansion Grounds Expansion, Retail Shop Coming to Disneyland Resort in 2024

[Disney Analyst]

At least she too wishes the relocated fountain could be pumping water.

 

[britain]

Time definitely wasn’t on their side if they were going to make a worthwhile change. I think when Kim talks about “structural” issues, she is referring to narrative structure, not the physical building.

There is just so much to consider when it comes to making alterations to that scene. Any changes made to what we see after the lights go out will also likely mean a change to the legendary stretching room spiel, in order for the new narrative to make sense. If I was an Imagineer, I would horrified at the thought of changing something so perfect to appease one or two people a year.

Side note, I sort of want to get one of those “I’m celebrating” buttons from City Hall now and have it say “I’m celebrating an axe murder, I guess??” Haha.

Agreed - I think they are aware that it's not that easy to replace iconic narrative (see Pirate Auction Scene) in a satisfying way.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I appreciate your willingness to be critical of Disney. I find myself bothered by the implicit assumptions and the way she frames the issues, but as I look back at the work with her fingerprints I don’t have a lot to complain about, honestly.

Which kind of makes it worse. Yes there are things like the out of scale and alignment changes to New Orleans Square that came from the Club 33, but it’s not disaster after disaster.

Part of being a creative who puts work out is criticism. Make a movie, it gets reviewed. Write a book, it gets reviewed. The AI art issue would have been so easy to handle by taking some responsibility. Propping is a thing. That could have been explained instead of saying Disney “can’t” do something. It involves lots of things from a variety of sources and they missed something, now that they know they’re doing something else. Simple. Don’t make excuses and blame people for noticing. It’s hypocritical to go on and on about these little details and then complain that people noticed something little.

 

[duncedoof]

Time definitely wasn’t on their side if they were going to make a worthwhile change. I think when Kim talks about “structural” issues, she is referring to narrative structure, not the physical building.

There is just so much to consider when it comes to making alterations to that scene. Any changes made to what we see after the lights go out will also likely mean a change to the legendary stretching room spiel, in order for the new narrative to make sense. If I was an Imagineer, I would horrified at the thought of changing something so perfect to appease one or two people a year.

Side note, I sort of want to get one of those “I’m celebrating” buttons from City Hall now and have it say “I’m celebrating an axe murder, I guess??” Haha.

When will time be on their side then? It's been 17 months since we've seen the ride. Can't see them doing that again.

 

[britain]

Which kind of makes it worse. Yes there are things like the out of scale and alignment changes to New Orleans Square that came from the Club 33, but it’s not disaster after disaster.

Part of being a creative who puts work out is criticism. Make a movie, it gets reviewed. Write a book, it gets reviewed. The AI art issue would have been so easy to handle by taking some responsibility. Propping is a thing. That could have been explained instead of saying Disney “can’t” do something. It involves lots of things from a variety of sources and they missed something, now that they know they’re doing something else. Simple. Don’t make excuses and blame people for noticing. It’s hypocritical to go on and on about these little details and then complain that people noticed something little.

In her defense, we don't know how the reporter brought up the issue. It's possible she was sort of set up if the question was "Do you get tired of hearing people online complain about things like that AI generated image?" She may have said plenty of great things about how she loves the fans, but just this part was isolated in the article.

Also, we don't know about how she works internally - she may be the most 'feedback oriented' designer at WDI. But she knows she's doing the PR thing right now. She's not at liberty to say anything bad about the company. The closest she got is that comment about how some people would have liked an even bigger store.

 

[DavidDL]

When will time be on their side then? It's been 17 months since we've seen the ride. Can't see them doing that again.

Hopefully never. So they can use it as an excuse to not have to make the change.

 

[mickEblu]

Time definitely wasn’t on their side if they were going to make a worthwhile change. I think when Kim talks about “structural” issues, she is referring to narrative structure, not the physical building.

There is just so much to consider when it comes to making alterations to that scene. Any changes made to what we see after the lights go out will also likely mean a change to the legendary stretching room spiel, in order for the new narrative to make sense. If I was an Imagineer, I would horrified at the thought of changing something so perfect to appease one or two people a year.

Side note, I sort of want to get one of those “I’m celebrating” buttons from City Hall now and have it say “I’m celebrating an axe murder, I guess??” Haha.

I think she is talking about the physical structure. I’m encouraged that they didn’t just switch to a screen there 365 days a year as that would have been a simple solution. But to your point since a screen would have been an easy solution you could very well be right. I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt here and say they refused to cover up the rafters and the hanging corpse with a screen. As far as the stretching room spiel, it really doesn’t have to change at all. “Of course, there’s always my way” is vague enough to where they could work on any number of new ideas to match.

But yes, the stretching room as we know it lives another day! Which is a huge win as we’ve seen what happens when they replace classic things these days. A beacon of old school imagineering perfection lives on. Clearly, they wanted to mess with it but hopefully with all the other things they have going on and the country moving in a less sensitive direction it will just go away. I thought the hanging corpse was a goner this round but I’d much rather be happy than right.

 

[britain]

Here's the thumbnail of the LA Times video:

While we don't know if some touch-ups have been made to the thumbnail, here are some observations:

• You can see through her neck to the back of the dress. Very cool.
• Impressively animated flames on the candles.
• Her nose seems warped - it could be a bit of veil in the way?

And... we have one-eyed black cat.

 

[mickEblu]

I’m not exactly thrilled that the bride looks like an Eastern European female basketball player with an extremely long neck but oh well. Let’s put it this way if she played basketball she would definitely be playing center. The Lakers could use her right now.

 

[etc98]

The other quote that gets me is this:

“The bride that used to be in there was an axe murderer, and in this day and age we have to be really careful about the sensitivities of people,” Irvine says. “We were celebrating someone chopping off her husband’s heads, and it was a weird story.”

I’m not even mad about the change, but it’s so weird to frame it this way. I don’t think anyone was “celebrating” the bride chopping off her husband’s heads. She was a menacing part of the attraction, almost in a villain role. We can portray characters doing something in a story without celebrating what they’re doing.

And on top of that, if it really was that big a deal, why was it ok that both Muppets Haunted Mansion and the 2023 Haunted Mansion movies also portray the bride as a murderer and villain?

 

[britain]

A little concerned that the article acknowledges that the Hitchhiking Ghost scene has changed but they don't go into more detail than that.

It could be because they want to hold back the surprise, or it could be because they know the change will be unpopular and they don't want to address it. "Filling in ROA anyone?"

 

[Consumer]

A little concerned that the article acknowledges that the Hitchhiking Ghost scene has changed but they don't go into more detail than that.

It could be because they want to hold back the surprise, or it could be because they know the change will be unpopular and they don't want to address it. "Filling in ROA anyone?"

They've replaced the Hitchhiking Ghosts with Lightning McQueen, Mater, and Sally.

 

[britain]

And on top of that, if it really was that big a deal, why was it ok that both Muppets Haunted Mansion and the 2023 Haunted Mansion movies also portray the bride as a murderer and villain?

That's easy. Just because one Imagineering creative director didn't like the axe murdering concept doesn't mean the company at large is/was against it. The Muppets and the HM filmmakers were just riffing on whatever was in the Mansion at the time.

I never liked the serial killer aspect of it. I missed the old forlorn bride. Glad to see this reinvention of her.

 

[britain]

They've replaced the Hitchhiking Ghosts with Lightning McQueen, Mater, and Sally.

"It's the GHOST LIIIIGHT!!!"

 

[mickEblu]

That's easy. Just because one Imagineering creative director didn't like the axe murdering concept doesn't mean the company at large is/was against it. The Muppets and the HM filmmakers were just riffing on whatever was in the Mansion at the time.

I never liked the serial killer aspect of it. I missed the old forlorn bride. Glad to see this reinvention of her.

I never liked the serial killer aspect either. Not because I’m sensitive but because the forlorn bride fits the story better and is more believable. I don’t like how she framed the change in her explanation at all. This could be viewed as the precursor to the hanging corpose change. “See, we replaced the murder too.” I know a lot of people including myself questioned why beheading husbands is ok but vaguely implied suicide isn’t.

 

[etc98]

That's easy. Just because one Imagineering creative director didn't like the axe murdering concept doesn't mean the company at large is/was against it. The Muppets and the HM filmmakers were just riffing on whatever was in the Mansion at the time.

I never liked the serial killer aspect of it. I missed the old forlorn bride. Glad to see this reinvention of her.

I get that for sure. And you’re right. But then the quote should have been something like “as we reviewed the story, we decided we liked the original concept of a grieving bride better than the concept of an axe murderer bride.” Which would have been totally fine and understandable.

Instead, she blamed it on the public. “In this day and age we have to be really careful about the sensitivities of people.”

Based on that quote, my question is valid. Why is it that they have to be careful about people’s sensitivities when it comes to the rides but not the movies? If it really is about responding to the public’s reaction, then they should be consistent with it. If it is “one imagineering creative director” who didn’t like the scene and wanted to change it, then they should blame the public as the reason for the change.

 

[etc98]

I never liked the serial killer aspect either. Not because I’m sensitive but because the forlorn bride fits the story better and is more believable. I don’t like how she framed the change in her explanation at all. This could be viewed as the precursor to the hanging corpose change. “See, we replaced the murder too.” I know a lot of people including myself questioned why beheading husbands is ok but vaguely implied suicide isn’t.

Exactly. I honestly don’t care one way or the other with this change, I liked the axe murderer story and I like the new one too.

My problem is with the way they framed their reasoning for making the change.

 

[DavidDL]

Exactly. I honestly don’t care one way or the other with this change, I liked the axe murderer story and I like the new one too.

My problem is with the way they framed their reasoning for making the change.

Same. I couldn’t care less if Constance sticks around or not. What bothers me, is Kim making it sound like it’s not acceptable in today’s day and age to have an implied axe wielding murderer inside of a haunted house because somehow, that’s crossing a line?

Like, excuse me, what?

 

[mickEblu]

Same. I couldn’t care less if Constance sticks around or not. What bothers me, is Kim making it sound like it’s not acceptable in today’s day and age to have an implied axe welding murderer inside of a haunted house because somehow, that’s crossing a line?

Like, excuse me, what?

Villains are getting more cookie cutter by the day. There used to be a moral in the story there. Good v evil. It was implied that evil is wrong which is why Good wins at the end of the story. I guess when critical thinking is lost and organizations cower to vocal minorities on social media this is what happens. Just the mere thought of something “bad” is enough to get it axed. No pun intended. Granted, there is no such dynamic of good v evil playing out on HM but Disney has to stop being scared about .000000000001 % of the population might think. Same reason we didn’t get Facilier on TBA.

 

[britain]

I never liked the serial killer aspect either. Not because I’m sensitive but because the forlorn bride fits the story better and is more believable. I don’t like how she framed the change in her explanation at all. This could be viewed as the precursor to the hanging corpose change. “See, we replaced the murder too.” I know a lot of people including myself questioned why beheading husbands is ok but vaguely implied suicide isn’t.

I know some people will say I'm all namby-pamby about it, but murder was never a part of the original mansion except for three notable exceptions: The Ghost Host's suicide, the dualing portraits, and the decapitated knight.

The first just so happens to occur at the scariest part of the whole attraction. It's as bad as the mansion used to get, and it effectively puts first timers (especially kids) on edge even though the rest of the entire ride is an illusion & joke show. The dualists and the knight are depicting those who killed out of "sense of honor", "in the line of duty", or perhaps as punishment for being a traitor to the king. Not murderous intent. Nothing here close to home. No bad taste in the mouth.

While there have always been twisted and evil murderers in this world, Disneyland was never a place to spotlight such people. I appreciate the Black Widow Bride trope, but I more appreciate the desire to not remind people of evil things - especially evil hiding in the guise of marriage. (On a side note, HGB2's Long Forgotten Haunted Mansion blog points out that there are no ghosts of children in the attraction. It doesn't matter how appealing some may find "Creepy Doll-like Children Ghosts", the decision was made to not remind people that children die too.)

Now Constance is no longer a murderer. But sure, something is bumping off all her husbands. And sure, it's probably now the Hat Box Ghost. So serial killing is still a part of the mansion we have to live with. But at least it isn't twisting up the symbology of love and marriage. I approve of these changes.

EDIT:

I stand corrected. There have always been some murders in the stretching portraits. Eh, what can I say? It doesn't come off as bad as Constance Hatchaway did.