New Harry Potter Coaster Confirmed for 2019 (Dragon's Challenge Closing Sept 4th)

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member

Take with a grain of salt because these guys mostly go off word of mouth... but they also have a decent track record too.

They mention roughness in addition to stronger than expected forces. They mention that removing a car from each train is possibly on the table, although that would involve recalibrating everything.

Of course, we all know this is just a cover up because they realized they forgot to theme that electrical shed 😉
 

Quinnmac000

Well-Known Member

Take with a grain of salt because these guys mostly go off word of mouth... but they also have a decent track record too.

They mention roughness in addition to stronger than expected forces. They mention that removing a car from each train is possibly on the table, although that would involve recalibrating everything.

Of course, we all know this is just a cover up because they realized they forgot to theme that electrical shed 😉

Shows you didn't actually read the article....
Now to get into specifics of your question, John. Does Hagrid’s have patches of “intolerable roughness”? Not that I have heard. It’s an Intamin manufactured motorcycle ride. I’ll let the coaster fanboys debate on how rough those are (not my particular wheelhouse). From what I’m hearing out of Team Member previews, the ride isn’t that rough at all.

More specifically, the wear you’ve seen on the track is pretty standard on rides that have been testing for a few weeks. That’s just what wheels on a roller coaster do.


Something that you didn’t mention John, that I’d like to take a stab at: the length of the trains. According to the article, apparently, they are considering decreasing the number of cars per train. That’s absolutely crazy. Not only does that decrease capacity, but the entire ride would also need to be recalibrated. Each zone of track measures how long the train should be in it. If you take even one row out of the train, the programming and timing for the entire ride would have to be recalibrated. You’d have to delay the opening months, if not a full year to make that kind of adjustment. All of the weight and timing calculations through each section of track would have to be reprogrammed and that takes a substantial amount of time to get up and running again safely.

What all this comes down to is actually pretty simple. If all these rumors were true: the ride was intolerably rough, premature track wear or an eventual redesign of some of the track? Most likely this ride wouldn’t be opening on time, much less have any sort of soft opening.
If Universal or Intamin felt that the ride was unsafe and/or needed significant work, you’d want to nip that in the bud now. Even to have a delayed opening is better than having to shut the ride down 6 months to a year later when it’s still at the height of its popularity.
I’m going to have to call major BS on the Orlando Weekly article. Assuming Universal Team Member previews go well, I expect to see soft openings sometime this weekend (around June 8th). Then once the public rides it, they’ll see that the ride is ready to go.
 

Mouse Trap

Well-Known Member
The ride is not rougher than expected. It is more forceful than expected and it is causing more wear and tear on the RVs. The fix is they will be performing maintenance more often than they had originally planned.

Yup, along these lines. The wear and tear is considerably more than expected, but nothing that would cause a mass closure or redesign. The average guest won't notice these things.

No delays in opening either, but Universal never does opening dates anymore after the Rip Ride Rockit debacle.
 

JT3000

Well-Known Member
Tomato, tomata.... your splitting hairs....
We will find out soon enough.

He isn't splitting hairs. G-forces and roughness are two completely different things. It's like you've never ridden a coaster before.

No delays in opening either, but Universal never does opening dates anymore after the Rip Ride Rockit debacle.

... what? Every Universal ride has an opening date. This one's is June 13th.
 
Last edited:

JT3000

Well-Known Member
They didn't announce an opening date for F&F and IIRC, Fallon, Kong, and redone Hulk

Okay, maybe not every ride. But Fallon had an opening date. Kong was supposed to have one, but they had trouble with the RVs and then Pulse happened just as they were ready to announce it. Hulk wasn't a new attraction, and F&F... I don't think they wanted to even acknowledge its existence after soft opening reviews. Can't blame them. Overall, it's still unusual for rides to open without warning.

What, then, is "roughness"?

rough·ness
/ˈrəfnəs/

noun

1.
the quality or state of having an uneven or irregular surface.
"the craggy roughness of every peak"
2.
the quality of lacking gentleness.
"a certain amount of playfighting and roughness is normal for dogs"
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
The ride is not rougher than expected. It is more forceful than expected and it is causing more wear and tear on the RVs. The fix is they will be performing maintenance more often than they had originally planned.
rough·ness
/ˈrəfnəs/

noun

1.
the quality or state of having an uneven or irregular surface.
"the craggy roughness of every peak"
2.
the quality of lacking gentleness.
"a certain amount of playfighting and roughness is normal for dogs"
Generally a coaster is considered rough if it is uncomfortable and the forces are not just part of the thrill of riding. So high G-Force is the fun of riding a rollercoaster, but the feeling of being pushed along a cobble street in a wooden cart is generally not what you want.

OK... so basically shaking.

I ask because people were complaining about Space Mountain being rough due supposedly to all the patchwork welding. And so I was expecting that teeth-chattering cobblestone experience. But when I rode it, it wasn't 'shaky' at all. It did have a lot of sharp turns that weren't banked and it threw me roughly left and right with lateral G-forces. And when I pointed that out in the thread that was discussing how rough Space Mountain was, all of a sudden, people stopped posting about it. This led me to theorize that people were using 'rough' in a vague, undefined way.

So, @Disneyhead'71, is that what you meant by 'rough'?
 

JT3000

Well-Known Member
OK... so basically shaking.

I ask because people were complaining about Space Mountain being rough due supposedly to all the patchwork welding. And so I was expecting that teeth-chattering cobblestone experience. But when I rode it, it wasn't 'shaky' at all. It did have a lot of sharp turns that weren't banked and it threw me roughly left and right with lateral G-forces. And when I pointed that out in the thread that was discussing how rough Space Mountain was, all of a sudden, people stopped posting about it. This led me to theorize that people were using 'rough' in a vague, undefined way.

So, @Disneyhead'71, is that what you meant by 'rough'?

Space Mountain doesn't produce lateral Gs. It isn't going fast enough. That's just vanilla inertia throwing you around, which is one of the reasons Space Mountain is considered rough. It can also be bumpiness, as previously suggested.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Space Mountain doesn't produce lateral Gs. It isn't going fast enough. That's just vanilla inertia throwing you around, which is one of the reasons Space Mountain is considered rough. It can also be bumpiness, as previously suggested.

"Inertial throwing you around" is a lateral force (centripetal/centrifugal, depeding on your frame of reference) which can be measured in comparison to the force of a standard G-force. Otherwise Mission:Space has no G-Forces since it swings around laterally, but everyone measures that lateral force in terms of "Gs".

My experience of Space Mountain wasn't that it was 'bumpy.' I don't recall anyone every saying their experience of Space Mountain as being 'bumpy.' They say "rough" a lot, but when I asked if that was bumpiness, no one stepped up to say "yes."
 

JT3000

Well-Known Member
"Inertial throwing you around" is a lateral force (centripetal/centrifugal, depeding on your frame of reference) which can be measured in comparison to the force of a standard G-force. Otherwise Mission:Space has no G-Forces since it swings around laterally, but everyone measures that lateral force in terms of "Gs".

My experience of Space Mountain wasn't that it was 'bumpy.' I don't recall anyone every saying their experience of Space Mountain as being 'bumpy.' They say "rough" a lot, but when I asked if that was bumpiness, no one stepped up to say "yes."

G-force is measured as a perception of weight. Positive Gs give you a feeling of additional weight, or in the case of lateral Gs, a feeling of literally being pushed to the side. Negative Gs produce a feeling of weightlessness. Mission: Space produces both positive and negative Gs; Space Mountain produces neither. It's just low velocity inertia because of the unbanked turns. Your body wants to keep going in the same direction, so you get thrown slightly, but you don't have enough velocity to feel any additional forces besides the sudden change in direction, therefore it's considered a forceless coaster.

It can also be bumpy. It depends on the vehicle, the wheels especially, since that is what is interacting with the track.
 
Last edited:

Schmidt

Well-Known Member
He isn't splitting hairs. G-forces and roughness are two completely different things. It's like you've never ridden a coaster before.



... what? Every Universal ride has an opening date. This one's is June 13th.


JT3000, Angry much? Thanks for your opinion on the matter. Always fun when a stranger insults you on a message board.
Keep up the good work.
 

JT3000

Well-Known Member
JT3000, Angry much? Thanks for your opinion on the matter. Always fun when a stranger insults you on a message board.
Keep up the good work.

You're welcome. ;) Except I wasn't sharing an opinion. You can call a tomato whatever you like, but there's a distinct difference between a ride simply having G-forces and being rough. G-forces can lead to roughness, but they're not synonymous. You're going to give people the wrong impression by pretending they're the same.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
G-force is measured in a perception of weight. Positive Gs give you a feeling of additional weight, or in the case of lateral Gs, a feeling of literally being pushed to the side. Negative Gs produce a feeling of weightlessness. Mission: Space produces both positive and negative Gs; Space Mountain produces neither. It's just low velocity inertia because of the unbanked turns. Your body wants to keep going in the same direction, so you get thrown, but you aren't feeling any additional forces besides the sudden change in direction, therefore it's considered a forceless coaster.

It can also be bumpy. It depends on the vehicle, the wheels especially, since that is what is interacting with the track.

Sorry, you're definitely not using those terms as they normally are used.

A G is an accelerating force measuring the apparent gravitational force of Earth generally measured at 9.8 m/s^2. As such, it is also a vector, it is pointing toward the center of the Earth.

When one accelerates or changes direction going up and down along this vector, it is convenient to measure the resultant accelerating force in terms of G... as a handy form of standard measurement. If you're going down an incline at 5.9 m/s^2, then your resultant 'feel' of gravitational acceleration is 1/2G. If you're being propelled upward at 9.8 m/s^2, then the resultant feel of acceleration is 2G. If you're free-falling, it's 0G.

You acknowledge that Mission:Space produces both positive and negative Gs. No, it technically doesn't, since it is all motion perpendicular to the vector of Earth's apparent gravitational force. However, we can talk about the centrifugal/centripetal force of angular acceleration in terms of G in an analogous way. If the angular force is producing a lateral force vector of 19.6 m/s^2, then we can say it's producing 2Gs of force, even if the vector of the force is not pointing toward the center of the Earth, but perpendicular to the vector of Earth's gravity.

IOW, lateral forces can be measured in terms of G in an analogous way, namely, how proportional that force is to a force measured as 9.8 m/s^2.

So, Space Mountain. When you whip around a turn that isn't banked to give the resultant vector a downward direction in relation to your body, then you feel the whip around as a lateral force throwing you left and right and into the sides of car. All forces can be expressed in their absolute value to their proportion to the absolute value of G. Thus, one can express that lateral force as "Gs", just like you did for Mission:Space. It is literally (in the literal sense of literal) the same thing.

We've had a thread discussing the lateral G forces of various spinners and no one said, "That's not a G force, that's just inertia!" We all knew what we meant by "Gs". A sharp turn on coaster without banking is the same lateral force. And it can be expressed in terms of G. As most people do.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom