News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[bUU]

However, isn't the CBR station on the ground?

As for expansion, ramps and elevated stations can handle "collisions" between multiple lines

That was my point.

 

[The Mom]

OK guys, I think this thread needs to return to useful information about the Disney Skyliner. Let's put a halt to the doomsday talk. Thanks.

We have been advised to stay on topic by The Boss. I suggest we heed the warning.

 

[larryz]

That was my point.

However, isn't the CBR station on the ground? As such, how would guests enter the station if there was a fourth leg? It seems to me that a fourth leg would cut off guests ingress to the loading platforms.

I thought your point was that adding another line would cut across all or some of the access from the associated hotel.

 

[mm121]

The base assumption should be that Disney and its contractors and those that issue them permits know the engineering well-enough that our back-seat driving is pointless. The first step in questioning that should be establishing credentials superior to that which is actually working on the project, and then performing an assessment of the site and the plans. Otherwise, it is like wdwmagic said, just useless doomsday talk.

I am intrigued by the idea someone floated earlier, that the gondola system can be expanded. I'm having trouble envisioning how that could work efficiently. Earlier someone took issue with my wondering about why Epcot didn't directly connect to Hollywood Studios (given how close the Epcot-to-Riviera portion comes to the studios, and how much more cabling there is going the way it is going). They made the point about how this specific arrangement splits traffic best, rather than making (for example) AoA folks traverse almost the entire system. So taking that at face value, I don't see how any expansion of the current system could work without it having too many guests having to endure too many hops to get to where they want to go. It almost seems to me that the message is that gondolas work as local transportation between a small handful of relatively close-by stations, but don't work as a full solution to what is effectively a city-wide transportation system.

So, remembering the concerns raised about the direct Epcot-to-Hollywood Studios idea earlier, the only way to avoid those concerns would be to have expansions of the gondola system emanate from CBR as a fourth leg, perhaps going out to Disney Springs, perhaps by way of an intermediate stop (a la the Riviera station) at Typhoon Lagoon? However, isn't the CBR station on the ground? As such, how would guests enter the station if there was a fourth leg? It seems to me that a fourth leg would cut off guests ingress to the loading platforms.

That's why I think the only "expansion" of the gondola system that we'll see from here either has to ignore the concerns folks raised before about the direct Epcot-to-Hollywood Studios idea, or has to be about building a second, completely separate gondola system. Some have talked about connecting AK to AKL (and maybe CSR) but I don't think that's "enough" to justify it, so I think a second system would be more likely to be a replacement for the monorail system that has become too antiquated an idea (as well as too old of a facility) to maintain. Either that or perhaps the two systems could touch - so that would have the CBR to Disney Springs connection be oriented the other way, with its hub at Disney Springs, with legs emanating out to CBR, Port Orleans, and maybe from there onto the campgrounds.

I agree, I don't really see this system ever being expanded, just like the monorail was never expanded (though I disagree that they'd ever get rid of the monorail, especially with all the money recently spent on automation.

What I'd love to see would be a PRT system that could branch from CBB Skyliner Hub, (or HS) then have branches connecting AK, AKL, TL, CR, maybe even All Stars ( Though that would most likely overload the system. Disney kinda likes having many non connecting transportation systems it seems as it keeps things interesting, but also the dis connections help prevent any one system from getting overloaded. As much as it would have been great for all the parks to connect via the monorail along with several other hotels, it would be insanely crowded especially on nights and days when many people are arriving and leaving all at the same time.

Made a thread over in the Imagineer Thread for my PRT idea to avoid going off topic here.

Disney PRT (Personal Rapid Transport) System to Connect Southern End of Disney World

I think the main reason they didn't run the Skyliner direct from IG to HS was that the main goal was to connect hotels to parks, instead of parks to parks. Plus in the bigger picture the skyliner was built as an advertising tool for the Riviera DVC, as the skyliner enables a higher price point when it can gets advertised as having a direct fixed transportation system to two parks.

 

[bUU]

I thought your point was that adding another line would cut across all or some of the access from the associated hotel.

Yes, precisely. As you said, if it were an elevated station, instead of being on the ground, that wouldn't have been a problem.

 

[mikesteffen]

If they ever shut down monorail, they may as well close the doors to the whole place.

 

[mm121]

If they ever shut down monorail, they may as well close the doors to the whole place.

Yea whenever people mention the demise of the monorail it's simply not going to happen.

And unlike if it was a transportation system that was expected to be self funding, like the Sydney Monorail that was torn down.

The Disney monorail is as much attraction as it is transportation, along with advertising and sales tool for the Magic Kingdom and Monorail Resorts

Just like the Skyliner is now an Advertising and Marketing tool for DHS, CBB, Pop/AoA, and Riviera

 

[winstongator]

The base assumption should be that Disney and its contractors and those that issue them permits know the engineering well-enough that our back-seat driving is pointless. The first step in questioning that should be establishing credentials superior to that which is actually working on the project, and then performing an assessment of the site and the plans. Otherwise, it is like wdwmagic said, just useless doomsday talk.

I am intrigued by the idea someone floated earlier, that the gondola system can be expanded. I'm having trouble envisioning how that could work efficiently. Earlier someone took issue with my wondering about why Epcot didn't directly connect to Hollywood Studios (given how close the Epcot-to-Riviera portion comes to the studios, and how much more cabling there is going the way it is going). They made the point about how this specific arrangement splits traffic best, rather than making (for example) AoA folks traverse almost the entire system. So taking that at face value, I don't see how any expansion of the current system could work without it having too many guests having to endure too many hops to get to where they want to go. It almost seems to me that the message is that gondolas work as local transportation between a small handful of relatively close-by stations, but don't work as a full solution to what is effectively a city-wide transportation system.

So, remembering the concerns raised about the direct Epcot-to-Hollywood Studios idea earlier, the only way to avoid those concerns would be to have expansions of the gondola system emanate from CBR as a fourth leg, perhaps going out to Disney Springs, perhaps by way of an intermediate stop (a la the Riviera station) at Typhoon Lagoon? However, isn't the CBR station on the ground? As such, how would guests enter the station if there was a fourth leg? It seems to me that a fourth leg would cut off guests ingress to the loading platforms.

That's why I think the only "expansion" of the gondola system that we'll see from here either has to ignore the concerns folks raised before about the direct Epcot-to-Hollywood Studios idea, or has to be about building a second, completely separate gondola system. Some have talked about connecting AK to AKL (and maybe CSR) but I don't think that's "enough" to justify it, so I think a second system would be more likely to be a replacement for the monorail system that has become too antiquated an idea (as well as too old of a facility) to maintain. Either that or perhaps the two systems could touch - so that would have the CBR to Disney Springs connection be oriented the other way, with its hub at Disney Springs, with legs emanating out to CBR, Port Orleans, and maybe from there onto the campgrounds.

I could also see expansion from the All-Stars to AK. There is one huge thing hanging over the Skyliner development, and that's no moon.

Getting people to DHS specifically, and from DHS to Epcot will be extremely important in 4 months.

Channeling Mr. Obvious, but expansion will depend on how well this system does. By Feb 2020 we should have a pretty good idea.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I agree, I don't really see this system ever being expanded, just like the monorail was never expanded (though I disagree that they'd ever get rid of the monorail, especially with all the money recently spent on automation.

What I'd love to see would be a PRT system that could branch from CBB Skyliner Hub, (or HS) then have branches connecting AK, AKL, TL, CR, maybe even All Stars ( Though that would most likely overload the system. Disney kinda likes having many non connecting transportation systems it seems as it keeps things interesting, but also the dis connections help prevent any one system from getting overloaded. As much as it would have been great for all the parks to connect via the monorail along with several other hotels, it would be insanely crowded especially on nights and days when many people are arriving and leaving all at the same time.

Made a thread over in the Imagineer Thread for my PRT idea to avoid going off topic here.

Disney PRT (Personal Rapid Transport) System to Connect Southern End of Disney World

I think the main reason they didn't run the Skyliner direct from IG to HS was that the main goal was to connect hotels to parks, instead of parks to parks. Plus in the bigger picture the skyliner was built as an advertising tool for the Riviera DVC, as the skyliner enables a higher price point when it can gets advertised as having a direct fixed transportation system to two parks.

IMHO, If this system works as expected, it will be built all over the place with the exception of the current monorail areas, for now.

 

[mm121]

IMHP, If this system works as expected, it will be built all over the place with the exception of the current monorail areas, for now.

I really hope they don't do that.

It's much more visually intrusive than the monorail beam.

Plus it's nice to have variety, so would rather see them explore something else.

After no new non bus transportation options since the monorail hate to see them settle for an off the shelf product such as the skyliner, while attempting to make it seem innovative, new, and cool.

Instead of actually building something cool.

 

[note2001]

I'd rather not see gondolas line drying their way into Animal Kingdom either.

 

[ParksAndPixels]

I'd rather not see gondolas line drying their way into Animal Kingdom either.

If the cabins and towers on this line were given more of a theme fitting to the park, I wouldn’t mind this option. That said, I would prefer to see the monorail but I seriously doubt that option will even be considered

 

[begood524]

Bioreconstruct has posted some updates.... looks like the turn station is essentially finished, more detail is being added at HS, and additional artwork has been added at Epcot!

 

[mm121]

If the cabins and towers on this line were given more of a theme fitting to the park, I wouldn’t mind this option. That said, I would prefer to see the monorail but I seriously doubt that option will even be considered

Monorail is too expensive and there isn't really the density to support it. Between DHS and AK

Plus at MK they kinda overlook the expense of it since its also an attraction that's part of the entry experience.

There are definitely other fixed track options that exist that are cheaper though that are automated and each vehicle is smaller.

Example the Morgantown PRT built in 1975 and still running to this day.

 

[GlacierGlacier]

Monorail is too expensive and there isn't really the density to support it. Between DHS and AK

Plus at MK they kinda overlook the expense of it since its also an attraction that's part of the entry experience.

There are definitely other fixed track options that exist that are cheaper though that are automated and each vehicle is smaller.

Example the Morgantown PRT built in 1975 and still running to this day.

I knew this thread was cyclical, but wow, I didn't expect it to be this cyclical.

 

[mm121]

I knew this thread was cyclical, but wow, I didn't expect it to be this cyclical.

Great minds think alike.


It would work perfectly for the south end of property since the resorts aren't built in a circular fashion like the monorail loop.

Explaintion of map here:

Disney PRT (Personal Rapid Transport) System to Connect Southern End of Disney World

 

[mm121]

There is, but it's a single line. It runs like conventional transit during heavy ridership periods using minibus sized vehicles (I've seen it called "Group Rapid Transit"). It runs in PRT mode only during less busy times. There are no routing decisions for the system to make, other than bypassing intermediate stations.

Sure, Disney could build something like that, but I don't think anyone is marketing it. I believe the companies who are trying to sell PRT's and who have actually installed one are focused on 4-passenger or smaller vehicles, which probably would not be able to keep up with a park exit. And as soon as Disney branched onto a 2nd line, they'd be breaking new ground.

That's what Disney use to be known for!!

Breaking new ground, unfortunately now the game is mostly about playing it safe. Especially with anything that isn't directly profit driven.

Yea there spending money on Star Wars land but that can be used to justify ticket price increases.

Unlike the skyliner which can be considered the SAFE choice as it required nothing new and could be built easily by an existing manufacturer.

 

[BrianLo]

Unlike the skyliner which can be considered the SAFE choice as it required nothing new and could be built easily by an existing manufacturer.

Actually that's not true, there are several new and built to spec portions of this system. Disney has a long history of working with well renowned manufacturers to build things to spec.

Is it actually less impressive other than some made up achievement that Disney works with Garner Holt, Vekoma or Doppelmayr and doesn't just do everything from scratch?

Any sort of rail based system would have still largely been a collaborative product from a well known company like Boeing.

I know Walt had aspirations of being a transport manufacturer or a city planner... but those aspirations would have sunk the company.

 

[jt04]

Great minds think alike.


It would work perfectly for the south end of property since the resorts aren't built in a circular fashion like the monorail loop.
View attachment 367987
Explaintion of map here:

Disney PRT (Personal Rapid Transport) System to Connect Southern End of Disney World

Great route but tech too slow for distances.

 

[joelkfla]

Monorail is too expensive and there isn't really the density to support it. Between DHS and AK

Plus at MK they kinda overlook the expense of it since its also an attraction that's part of the entry experience.

There are definitely other fixed track options that exist that are cheaper though that are automated and each vehicle is smaller.

Example the Morgantown PRT built in 1975 and still running to this day.

I doubt that a Morgantown-like PRT/GRT would be cheaper than a monorail. That was a one-off, custom built system whose construction went way over budget. Just like the WDW Monorail, they have trouble maintaining it because parts are not available. OTOH, there are monorails that are currently available from companies like Hitachi. A new system wouldn't necessarily have to be the same as the existing system.

An automated people mover (not WEDway PeopleMover) would probably be much less expensive.