News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[marni1971]

Now that is a map I would love to see

I’ve got them all as separate segments. I really should draw a combined version.

 

[Creathir]

I love the monorials, they just ooooze Disney, but they are such an awful functional transportation system. People forget that the original reason the Monorail existed was as a way to separate the parking lot from the park. It was never designed as a mass transit system that could scale as the WDW property built three more parks and 20 more hotels.

Im glad WDW is looking into other means of transport...Just keep the current monorail system with some upgraded trains and build a better system for the other areas.

Have to disagree with ya on this one.
The monorail is functionally not much different than a light rail system.

WDW’s monorail could use some operational improvements, namely a completely automated system and higher capacity cars.

Presently they can carry 60 people per car, so on the 6 car trains they can carry 360 people. (20 seated, 40 standing)

It really depends on dispatch rate as to true capacity.

At 3 minutes, that’s roughly 7200 people per hour.

The monorail most certainly is a mass transit system in all sense of the word, even beating the shiny new gondolas.

Tweak the passenger capacity and/or automate the system fully slowing quicker dispatch times, and it only goes up.

 

[Bender123]

They wouldn’t have. Monorail was the backbone, busses, Trolleys and WEDWay the feeders. And with a lot more than 12 monorail trains.

Even fully developed, the MK resort loop would have had six stops, EPCOT two and MGM four.

That's kind of my problem with the idea...from a structural standpoint, tossing more trains on a track can actually decrease efficiency. As it stands now, Im just trying to envision what the monorail would look like with two more resorts on the MK line and It would be ugly...like really ugly...before even adding in the needs of a hub and spoke system using it with other means.

Don't get me wrong, Im not disagreeing with the history of the monorail or the plans, Im just looking at it as a function of me being a statistician and planner. Im certain that WDW management had an urban planner come in, at some point, and tell them that the current infrastructure was inadequate for the expansion that was planned, based on future needs and the multiplicative effects of adding more lines. Its a massive price tag that generates a lot of problems. Im being purely practical in thinking of the WDW property as a really weird city.

That being said, I do hope they upgrade the current route trains and invest in maintaining the system. The only real mystery to me in the transportation plan with the gondola is why terminate the route at IG? It really makes no sense from any sane level, as it purposely makes a break in a chain that would directly link three parks. There must be some reason beyond cost for that one.

 

[ABQ]

Oh, it was. It would have served the Venetian, Persian and Asian. And Tomorrowland. And all versions of EPCOT. And the DMGM Studios and onwards.

And EPCOT to LBV.

And south from EPCOT to what’s today the CBR.

It just needed to be built out properly and maintained.

And you can sort of see it in the model seen at the WDW Welcome Center in this short, but pretty cool, video. I'm sure you've got some clips of this yourself somewhere, right?

 

[mmascari]

The only real mystery to me in the transportation plan with the gondola is why terminate the route at IG? It really makes no sense from any sane level, as it purposely makes a break in a chain that would directly link three parks. There must be some reason beyond cost for that one.

That one's easy. The route was easier to enter at IG than the front.

We like to think of it as a Park to Park route here, but that's not really it's goal. Just like the Friendship boats, the goal is Resort to Park and back. It's a bonus that you can use it to get between two parks not a primary goal.

What was the goal when they built the EPCOT loop of the monorail? Was that Park to Park at the time? With just 2 parks and not repeated as more parks were added. Or, was it more about monorail resorts getting a monorail to the second park? Also not repeated as they added more parks.

My historic knowledge isn't enough to know when all the different resorts vs parks were built to know what the conditions might have been at the time.

 

[marni1971]

The only real mystery to me in the transportation plan with the gondola is why terminate the route at IG? It really makes no sense from any sane level, as it purposely makes a break in a chain that would directly link three parks. There must be some reason beyond cost for that one.

That one's easy. The route was easier to enter at IG than the front.

We like to think of it as a Park to Park route here, but that's not really it's goal. Just like the Friendship boats, the goal is Resort to Park and back. It's a bonus that you can use it to get between two parks not a primary goal.

What was the goal when they built the EPCOT loop of the monorail? Was that Park to Park at the time? With just 2 parks and not repeated as more parks were added. Or, was it more about monorail resorts getting a monorail to the second park? Also not repeated as they added more parks.

My historic knowledge isn't enough to know when all the different resorts vs parks were built to know what the conditions might have been at the time.

Pretty much that.

The gondolas were born and based upon a cheaper way of linking the CBR and POP areas to Epcot than canal. Taking the system into the IG is cheaper manpower-wise longer term. Linking to DHS was a by-product of developing the original route.

 

[NormC]

Think modern trams. Also called LRT or Light Rapid Transit.

Here’s one at my local station.

View attachment 350052

It’s a double car unit, where you can walk end to end and drives from either end. Max speed 50mph, capacity around 200 people and one arrives every 12 minutes (six minutes on other lines)

In theory they’re cheaper than trains, can travel on roads with traffic or on seeprate (segregated) lines and cost less to run.

This system is also controlled by TMS, a tram management system developed by Thales who are supplying the WDW monorail automation system.

Should you want to really geek out I shot this during testing;

I was fascinated watching them build it along Shadowmoss, Simonsway and the Airport. I haven't ridden it yet. I usually just take the train to Piccadilly from the Airport or the bus to Trafford Center.

 

[JoeCamel]

Think modern trams. Also called LRT or Light Rapid Transit.

Here’s one at my local station.

View attachment 350052

It’s a double car unit, where you can walk end to end and drives from either end. Max speed 50mph, capacity around 200 people and one arrives every 12 minutes (six minutes on other lines)

In theory they’re cheaper than trains, can travel on roads with traffic or on seeprate (segregated) lines and cost less to run.

This system is also controlled by TMS, a tram management system developed by Thales who are supplying the WDW monorail automation system.

Should you want to really geek out I shot this during testing;

You have another mistress! I am devastated

 

[trainplane3]

You have another mistress! I am devastated

And another mistress, the MAN TP project. Not gonna lie though, I like seeing updates on airports like that...as weird as it may sound. It's always a nice little surprise to go on Youtube and see a non tribute Martin video.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Any chances, @marni1971 of WDW getting a red car trolley type transportation system or even a nicely themed light rail?

 

[GoofGoof]

Florida is going to go from a one gondola state to a five gondola state over just a few months.

Dolphins To Add Gondola At Stadium

www.venuesnow.com

Pretty cool.

So the Dolphins plan to spend $3M on this project and Disney is spending 100X that? I know that’s an exaggeration and the Miami one sounds like only 1 station and a round trip ride vs 5 stations at WDW, but it still seems way less expensive.

 

[Disone]

Light rail refers to lighter weight trains (well, light compared to subway trains and freight trains). Lots of medium to big cities have built them in the past few decades because they're so much easier to build than subways. Except for the fact that you still have to deal with rights of way, it's a pretty feasible system even on terrain like Florida's. In cities with existing but otherwise unused conventional rails (and their right of way), light rail is a fantastic solution. San Diego has a really nice system that uses some previously abandoned rail. I still think a gondola system is much cheaper than a rail system that would have to be built from scratch, though.

This is incorrect. Light Rail does not refer to the weight of the train. This is the biggest misnomer about light rail. Light Rail actually refers to the capacity of the train. It is a light capacity train. It is not meant for heavy capacity.

 

[eddie104]

Have to disagree with ya on this one.
The monorail is functionally not much different than a light rail system.

WDW’s monorail could use some operational improvements, namely a completely automated system and higher capacity cars.

Presently they can carry 60 people per car, so on the 6 car trains they can carry 360 people. (20 seated, 40 standing)

It really depends on dispatch rate as to true capacity.

At 3 minutes, that’s roughly 7200 people per hour.

The monorail most certainly is a mass transit system in all sense of the word, even beating the shiny new gondolas.

Tweak the passenger capacity and/or automate the system fully slowing quicker dispatch times, and it only goes up.

I agree with you and I don't why people here are so quick to dismiss the Monorail as a valid transport system and want to replace them.

 

[flynnibus]

I agree with you and I don't why people here are so quick to dismiss the Monorail as a valid transport system and want to replace them.

Because it’s easily done better by other systems.

 

[eddie104]

Because it’s easily done better by other systems.

The Monorail breathes Disney...it is the image or experience you remember when going to the MK. So I find it odd just because its expensive to maintain people are writing it off. Also other forms of transport being better is debatable because like creathr said with a new and improved system it can become more efficient.

 

[flynnibus]

The Monorail breathes Disney...it is the image or experience you remember when going to the MK. So I find it odd just because its expensive to maintain people are writing it off. Also other forms of transport being better is debatable because like creathr said with a new and improved system it can become more efficient.

The monorail was ironic because it was seen as futuristic and the idealism. Those myths are dead. Get another system that has that kind of upside and people would make new associations

 

[SLUSHIE]

Can we get back to talking about the hyperloop?

Thanks.

 

[Disone]

The Monorail breathes Disney...it is the image or experience you remember when going to the MK. So I find it odd just because its expensive to maintain people are writing it off. Also other forms of transport being better is debatable because like creathr said with a new and improved system it can become more efficient.

I have always assumed that WDW's lack of any mass transit with rails just meant that WDW wasn't willing to spend on rail, monorail, light right, any rail. One could debate endlessly the merits of any one of those options over the other, but they are all more expensive then busses. They long ago lost sight that people think of the parks, resorts, and monorails when they think of WDW. They do not think of Parks, Resorts, and Busses. But perhaps the Gondola will prove to be a more enticing system? I look forward to seeing them in action.

 

[tonymu]

Here in Houston we have added 3 light rail lines. Since they run at grade they are subject to traffic, floods and constant crashes with cars, people and bikes. To try to get cars to stop crashing into the light rail cars they have adjusted all the intersection signals so that cars are stopped in all directions way before the train arrives and way after it leaves the intersection. Besides taking away traveling lanes and almost all left turns on the routes, traffic barely flows because of the signal timing for the trains. I can only imagine how much worse an issue the light rail trains would have with cars, traveling around Disney with distracted drivers who barely know where they are going. I hope they do not add light rail unless it is completely separated from car traffic, with overpasses and its own path.

 

[GoofGoof]

This is incorrect. Light Rail does not refer to the weight of the train. This is the biggest misnomer about light rail. Light Rail actually refers to the capacity of the train. It is a light capacity train. It is not meant for heavy capacity.

So technically speaking if light rail refers to capacity then by default the fully loaded light capacity train weighs much less than a loaded heavy capacity train....so you are both right