News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[Grimley1968]

What about an elevated subway with an attractive looking vehicle? Maybe on one rail. Some sort of Mono-train or Solo-rail. Anyone got a name for this????

Put smelly cars on it, a slow loading process and huge lines to get on it, and it could be called a monorail.

 

[Bender123]

Put smelly cars on it, a slow loading process and huge lines to get on it, and it could be called a monorail.

I love the monorials, they just ooooze Disney, but they are such an awful functional transportation system. People forget that the original reason the Monorail existed was as a way to separate the parking lot from the park. It was never designed as a mass transit system that could scale as the WDW property built three more parks and 20 more hotels.

Im glad WDW is looking into other means of transport...Just keep the current monorail system with some upgraded trains and build a better system for the other areas.

 

[Bender123]

They just have to employ the strategy I overheard some drunkards discussing on the way out of the IG the other night after ROE....... "It's cool, we'll just go over to the Boardwalk and have a couple drinks, then when we come back here we will just tell the security guard that we're really nice people and they'll let us walk through the park to get back to the car"

I probably should've interjected and let them know their plan was going to fail, but as they say in Germany.....schadenfreude

There is Minnie Van, Uber, Lyft...If you are going to plan that badly as to abandon your vehicle in the lot you start the day at, it is sort of on you to get a ride to figure it out. I could definitely see some park hopping WDW newb family with a hopper jump from Epcot to Studios and suddenly find themselves on the far side from their vehicle.

It is an interesting question though, as its a unique case that never really happened with the Epcot/MK monorail lines, as they run until the last park closes and the parking lots are directly attached to the loading platforms.

With that said, how would it work now with the Friendship boats?

 

[tractor tipper]

200 more pages till 1000. Which will come first, 1000 pages or an operating gondola system?

 

[iowamomof4]

200 more pages till 1000. Which will come first, 1000 pages or an operating gondola system?

Page 600 was 5 months ago, so it's definitely a race!

 

[HauntedPirate]

I love the monorials, they just ooooze Disney, but they are such an awful functional transportation system. People forget that the original reason the Monorail existed was as a way to separate the parking lot from the park. It was never designed as a mass transit system that could scale as the WDW property built three more parks and 20 more hotels.

Im glad WDW is looking into other means of transport...Just keep the current monorail system with some upgraded trains and build a better system for the other areas.

As a well-known fan of the WDW monorail system, I can't disagree with any of this. I am looking forward to the Skyliner and eventually riding on it. It should be a good transportation system. The monorail just can't match the capacity, which is fine, it just was not designed to handle the throngs at MK these days (and honestly, how could it? No one 50 years ago could have imagined 20 million-plus at MK annually).

 

[Bender123]

As a well-known fan of the WDW monorail system, I can't disagree with any of this. I am looking forward to the Skyliner and eventually riding on it. It should be a good transportation system. The monorail just can't match the capacity, which is fine, it just was not designed to handle the throngs at MK these days (and honestly, how could it? No one 50 years ago could have imagined 20 million-plus at MK annually).

Its not like they couldn't build more monorail stations, tracks, etc...but ultimately, its still not a mass transit system along the lines of what is out in other urban areas (save Vegas, which doesn't handle nearly as many people as the WDW monorail system).

The only other option would be to either build a higher capacity system, based on a mass transit design parallel to the current fleet (which would be insanely expensive as it would require running two completely incompatible systems, with separate sheds, operational and maintenance staff) or tearing down the current system to replace it with an upgraded system, which, again, would require demolishing/extreme redesigns of all the current stations, roundhouse and tracks.

Its just not worth the multiple billions it would cost to still end up with a transport option that isn't as efficient or staffing light as a gondola, people mover, light rail option.

 

[marni1971]

It was never designed as a mass transit system that could scale as the WDW property built three more parks and 20 more hotels..

Oh, it was. It would have served the Venetian, Persian and Asian. And Tomorrowland. And all versions of EPCOT. And the DMGM Studios and onwards.

And EPCOT to LBV.

And south from EPCOT to what’s today the CBR.

It just needed to be built out properly and maintained.

 

[mmascari]

Its just not worth the multiple billions it would cost to still end up with a transport option that isn't as efficient or staffing light as a gondola, people mover, light rail option.

What's the capacity difference between a light rail solution and a monorail solution? Aren't they operationally the same?

 

[iowamomof4]

Maybe it's because I don't live in a large city, but I do not understand what people mean by "light rail" and how that could possibly be a thing at WDW.

 

[Grimley1968]

Maybe it's because I don't live in a large city, but I do not understand what people mean by "light rail" and how that could possibly be a thing at WDW.

Light rail refers to lighter weight trains (well, light compared to subway trains and freight trains). Lots of medium to big cities have built them in the past few decades because they're so much easier to build than subways. Except for the fact that you still have to deal with rights of way, it's a pretty feasible system even on terrain like Florida's. In cities with existing but otherwise unused conventional rails (and their right of way), light rail is a fantastic solution. San Diego has a really nice system that uses some previously abandoned rail. I still think a gondola system is much cheaper than a rail system that would have to be built from scratch, though.

 

[iowamomof4]

Light rail refers to lighter weight trains (well, light compared to subway trains and freight trains). Lots of medium to big cities have built them in the past few decades because they're so much easier to build than subways. Except for the fact that you still have to deal with rights of way, it's a pretty feasible system even on terrain like Florida's. In cities with existing but otherwise unused conventional rails (and their right of way), light rail is a fantastic solution. San Diego has a really nice system that uses some previously abandoned rail. I still think a gondola system is a much cheaper than a rail system that would have to be built from scratch, though.

That's a very good explanation, I must say!

 

[marni1971]

Maybe it's because I don't live in a large city, but I do not understand what people mean by "light rail" and how that could possibly be a thing at WDW.

Think modern trams. Also called LRT or Light Rapid Transit.

Here’s one at my local station.

It’s a double car unit, where you can walk end to end and drives from either end. Max speed 50mph, capacity around 200 people and one arrives every 12 minutes (six minutes on other lines)

In theory they’re cheaper than trains, can travel on roads with traffic or on seeprate (segregated) lines and cost less to run.

This system is also controlled by TMS, a tram management system developed by Thales who are supplying the WDW monorail automation system.

Should you want to really geek out I shot this during testing;

 

[Grimley1968]

That's a very good explanation, I must say!

I hope so, because one of the last papers I wrote in college was on the subject of different rail systems in different cities. A lot has changed since then, but the concept of light rail has seemed to stay pretty consistent over the years.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Oh, it was. It would have served the Venetian, Persian and Asian. And Tomorrowland. And all versions of EPCOT. And the DMGM Studios and onwards.

And EPCOT to LBV.

And south from EPCOT to what’s today the CBR.

It just needed to be built out properly and maintained.

Just when I think I know a lot about the WDW monorail system... Martin speaks.

 

[Bender123]

Oh, it was. It would have served the Venetian, Persian and Asian. And Tomorrowland. And all versions of EPCOT. And the DMGM Studios and onwards.

And EPCOT to LBV.

And south from EPCOT to what’s today the CBR.

It just needed to be built out properly and maintained.

Oh I know the plans, but the system, at least as it currently stands, is not a "real" mass transit model. I don't think anybody had a reasonable expectation that WDW was going to be carrying that number of people. Even with the upgrade from the Mark IV to VI, the overall facilities and needs were already becoming outdated. Attendance at MK, alone, is in the area of 5,000,000 over what it was in 2000. That's massive...

My point being that you could never add in all the original planned locations and have it flow into the current facilities. Can you imagine having the monorails be THE way from MK to all the resorts? The lines to get onto the trains would back up to the castle and the switchovers would be a mass of confused people...

The only, realistic, way to implement a property wide transit system, would be to massively upgrade the existing monorail infrastructure to support the load of what is currently carried by busses. Barring this, you just end up with the MK area being a bottle neck that would make LA rush hour seem tame.

I hate to say it, but I can see why Disney didn't expand the system...they had a plan, yes, but it seems it was made when the assumptions on attendance and growth were not at all what they actually ended up being.

 

[trainplane3]

Light rail refers to lighter weight trains (well, light compared to subway trains and freight trains). Lots of medium to big cities have built them in the past few decades because they're so much easier to build than subways. Except for the fact that you still have to deal with rights of way, it's a pretty feasible system even on terrain like Florida's. In cities with existing but otherwise unused conventional rails (and their right of way), light rail is a fantastic solution. San Diego has a really nice system that uses some previously abandoned rail. I still think a gondola system is much cheaper than a rail system that would have to be built from scratch, though.

While I enjoy riding on LRT more then buses, I think I like busways more. When something breaks down or when a car tries to beat the train, the system shuts down for 10-20 minutes. Buses can just be routed around the issue with a few minute disruption if that. It's "like a train with wheels" as a local paper here called it. Not exactly the best description but it's simple enough I suppose.

Edit: Our LRT isn't exactly the best thing though, so I'm sure other places (especially overseas) are much better. I'm used to seeing this everyday and it makes me glad I rely on our west busway and not rail:

 

[marni1971]

My point being that you could never add in all the original planned locations and have it flow into the current facilities. Can you imagine having the monorails be THE way from MK to all the resorts? The lines to get onto the trains would back up to the castle and the switchovers would be a mass of confused people....

They wouldn’t have. Monorail was the backbone, busses, Trolleys and WEDWay the feeders. And with a lot more than 12 monorail trains.

Even fully developed, the MK resort loop would have had six stops, EPCOT two and MGM four.

 

[Dr.GrantSeeker]

Oh, it was. It would have served the Venetian, Persian and Asian. And Tomorrowland. And all versions of EPCOT. And the DMGM Studios and onwards.

And EPCOT to LBV.

And south from EPCOT to what’s today the CBR.

It just needed to be built out properly and maintained.

Now that is a map I would love to see

 

[TheHodge]

Think modern trams. Also called LRT or Light Rapid Transit.

Here’s one at my local station.

View attachment 350052

It’s a double car unit, where you can walk end to end and drives from either end. Max speed 50mph, capacity around 200 people and one arrives every 12 minutes (six minutes on other lines)

In theory they’re cheaper than trains, can travel on roads with traffic or on seeprate (segregated) lines and cost less to run.

This system is also controlled by TMS, a tram management system developed by Thales who are supplying the WDW monorail automation system.

Should you want to really geek out I shot this during testing;

I think the biggest surprise to me on the thread has been that @marni1971 lives about 40 miles from me