News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[GlacierGlacier]

I just have to question why they'd paint one tower out of the many they're putting up.

It's the closest tower there is to being "in park." All others are outside parks, where utility stuff is traditionally seen. Not to mention it's adjacent to a heavily gardened spot, so keeping the go-away-green is probably preferential.

It'll be even more "in park" once Rat's back alley opens up.

 

[tonymu]

Is there any chance that the Riviera station has a moving platform that moves at the same speed as the gondola? This would eliminate the need to have a secondary loading area.

 

[Brian]

Does anyone know how people will stay cool during the hot summer days when riding in one of these? Asking for a friend.

 

[Lensman]

Is there any chance that the Riviera station has a moving platform that moves at the same speed as the gondola? This would eliminate the need to have a secondary loading area.

If they did, would they really load ECVs and wheelchairs from a moving platform onto a moving gondola car? Is there any other ride or conveyance loading where they do this? Just curious, it just occurred to me since this has been asked a couple of times.

 

[truecoat]

Does anyone know how people will stay cool during the hot summer days when riding in one of these? Asking for a friend.

They are clothing optional.

 

[tonymu]

If they did, would they really load ECVs and wheelchairs from a moving platform onto a moving gondola car? Is there any other ride or conveyance loading where they do this? Just curious, it just occurred to me since this has been asked a couple of times.

If they are moving at the same speed then it would be like loading a stopped gondola on the fixed walkway. Seems like it would work.

 

[cosmicgirl]

Based on the layout of the transfer/hub station, I suspect all 3 lines will operate clockwise. Presumably the Epcot and Studios lines will carry the most guests, and therefore need the most queue space. Clockwise operation allows queue space within the building, and easy transfers between the two heavily-traveled lines. Based on the foundations, the easternmost portion of the building does not appear to be intended for gondola storage

The Pop line will have relatively low ridership which wouldn't warrant much queue space, so it could operate in either direction. For the sake of clarity and wayfinding, it would be logical to operate it clockwise as well, to keep the entrance queue separated from the Studios line

This is obviously a crude sketch, but it shows how crowdflow could work through the central terminal station. The bold lines denote gondola operations, while the thin lines are general guest movement patterns
View attachment 282746

Actually, the Pop line will likely be the most travelled of the three and the Pop queue at CBR is the one point that is most likely to become a bottleneck. I did a rough traffic mix analysis 235 pages ago (point 3 of this post) to prove this point. In that post I noted that Pop and AoA guests make up about 70% of the users of the system. If every cabin is filled at DHS and IG (say, at park close) then 140% of one line's capacity would arrive at CBR wanting to transfer to Pop. This is only a potential issue for park to resort traffic, not the other way around. For resort to park traffic there would never be a significant queue at CBR as long as the guests from Pop/Art spread out evenly over both parks. In situations where this is not the case, say on an EMH morning, then it would suffice to let one in every 3 cabins leave Pop empty to allow CBR and Riviera traffic to blend in without creating a build-up.

I've since readjusted the numbers slightly because more rooms were demolished than I had accounted for and my room estimate for Riviera was probably on the low side. Even with 4,864 rooms at Pop/Art, 1,536 at CBR, and a generous estimate of 1,000 rooms at Riviera the majority of the traffic still originates from Pop/Art: 65.7% vs. 13.5% from Riviera and 20.8% from CBR. With these numbers you're still looking at 131.4% of one line's capacity potentially wanting to transfer to Pop at CBR.

If you assume that 25% of a resort's guests will visit Epcot and 25% will visit DHS then the demand is as follows:
Pop-CBR: 2,432 rooms;
CBR-DHS: 1,216 from Pop + 384 from CBR + 250 from Riviera = 1,850 rooms;
CBR-Riviera: 1,216 from Pop + 384 from CBR = 1,600 rooms;
Riviera-Epcot: 1,600 + 250 = 1,850 rooms.

Pop-CBR is clearly the most travelled line.

To tie this back to the direction of motion: my vote's on counterclockwise. That way any potential queue to get to Pop will have a roof over its head. Also, I don't think I've ever been on a gondola that didn't go counterclockwise.

Flip your Disney's Hollywood Studios and Pop! Century/Art of Animation queue. This places discharge for the north-south lines along the edge of the building, with all three queue entrances on the interior, and places Disney's Hollywood Studios loading on the side from which guests are approaching. Pop! Century and Art of Animation are also a very large complex and that line is the shortest, which would create the need for a larger queue than the other two.

The length of the line is irrelevant for its capacity. As long as the cabin size and launch interval are the same as for the other lines this has no impact on any potential queues.

Here's a one rope scenario that requires only three bullwheels at slightly different heights.

I'm repeating myself but wouldn't they have poured an additional "fat" pylon to accommodate the structure holding a third bull wheel? They only poured 4 of the tall slim pylons which carry the rail segments for when the cabins are off-cable. Or is there another way to hold up a bull wheel?

 

[Lensman]

If they are moving at the same speed then it would be like loading a stopped gondola on the fixed walkway. Seems like it would work.

I dunno. My aunt would have to drive her ECV onto the moving walkway from the fixed walkway, then turn her ECV sideways and line it up with the gondola, then manage to thread the needle and get into the gondola. And then what if she balks and gets to the end of the sideways moving walkway? They'd have to stop the whole thing before her ECV is tipped over by when it gets to the end of the moving walkway. For attraction loading I see them stopping the walkway for people who can't handle walking sideways on the moving walkway.

I think it's a possibility but has some probability of failing in the customer acceptance testing.

 

[Lensman]

@Lift Blog, what about the passive deflection bullwheel that Doppelmayr used in a couple of their Caracas Metrocable turning stations?

The best reference I could find was on the following page. Search for "passive deflection bullwheel" or "passive deflection wheel". There's a good photo of the station and the bullwheel. It looks like there are two separate ropes but the bullwheel allows the use of a single drivetrain for both, maybe?
http://gondolaproject.com/cornering/

(Note: I didn't want to hotlink or excerpt any media due to rights concerns)

 

[Lift Blog]

I'm repeating myself but wouldn't they have poured an additional "fat" pylon to accommodate the structure holding a third bull wheel? They only poured 4 of the tall slim pylons which carry the rail segments for when the cabins are off-cable. Or is there another way to hold up a bull wheel?

Bullwheels are generally mounted within the steel structures between the station masts, not directly on top of them. Look at the DHS station, the bullwheel is between legs 1 and 2. Although that one will move back and forth as it is the tension station for the line.

@Lift Blog, what about the passive deflection bullwheel that Doppelmayr used in a couple of their Caracas Metrocable turning stations?

The best reference I could find was on the following page. Search for "passive deflection bullwheel" or "passive deflection wheel". There's a good photo of the station and the bullwheel. It looks like there are two separate ropes but the bullwheel allows the use of a single drivetrain for both, maybe?
http://gondolaproject.com/cornering/

(Note: I didn't want to hotlink or excerpt any media due to rights concerns)

As I said before, there are a multitude of ways to achieve these angle station deflections. Caracas uses a single bullwheel with two grooves for two different haul ropes to share one drive system. The Quicksilver Gondola at Park City uses one haul rope and three bullwheels. The reason I think more bullwheels are likely is that the Riviera looks to split the curve into two distinct corners rather than one consistent arc. Every angle station is different and of course Disney didn't release any rendering of either one.

 

[cosmicgirl]

Bullwheels are generally mounted within the steel structures between the station masts, not directly on top of them. Look at the DHS station, the bullwheel is between legs 1 and 2. Although that one will move back and forth as it is the tension station for the line.

That's why I wrote "an additional "fat" pylon to accommodate the structure holding a third bull wheel". The bull wheel itself is not on top of the concrete pylon, but the structure that the bull wheel is attached to is supported by the pylon. No pylon = no support for the steel structure, ergo nothing to attach a third wheel to? That's why I was asking if there are other ways to mount a third wheel.

 

[mhochman]

Because the sightlines of the Eiffel Tower are so pristine now, it would be a shame to ruin them by putting something in the background.....

View attachment 282768

I made that point earlier. Funny that people almost don't see the Swan in the background anymore. Perhaps we won't see the support post after some time.

 

[Lift Blog]

That's why I wrote "an additional "fat" pylon to accommodate the structure holding a third bull wheel". The bull wheel itself is not on top of the concrete pylon, but the structure that the bull wheel is attached to is supported by the pylon. No pylon = no support for the steel structure, ergo nothing to attach a third wheel to? That's why I was asking if there are other ways to mount a third wheel.

They don't necessarily have to be the fat concrete type. Sometimes Doppelmayr just uses a steel post.

With eight masts, there should be plenty of support structure for multiple bullwheels.

 

[mmascari]

So about the sight lines with the Eiffel Tower, there's only two real places in the park that you'd be able to see the gondola tower. This view is from near the beginning of the Mexico pavilion:

And from the bridge right outside of the France pavilion:

Mind you that if you go a little bit closer, it's hidden behind the buildings:

You might be able to see it from the Norway pavilion too, forgot to check.

Even including that, the yellow areas below should be the only places you will ever see that gondola tower, and the ones across the lagoon can be covered up pretty easily:

I'm assuming all those pictures are with some type of zoom lense? Or, zoomed and cropped in post processing? Maybe not the bridge one.

Do you have the full view shots with no zoom that a person would see without any technical enhancements? Meaning, no zoom, no telescope, no binoculars, no blinders, just an average person walking on the path looking ahead at the sites as they enjoy themselves in the park.

I'm assuming with that perspective, it's even less noticeable. Can probably still see something, but wondering how much. And, how much other stuff, like the Swan and Dolphin, also start to show up too.

Wouldn't make it perfect, but would provide some perspective on what's already in view. Forced or not.

 

[mmascari]

Is there any chance that the Riviera station has a moving platform that moves at the same speed as the gondola? This would eliminate the need to have a secondary loading area.

That wouldn't solve the issue, or rather it solves a different issue.

If the special needs issue is simply boarding a moving car, the platform eliminates that problem. But, the cars are already moving slow enough that this isn't really the issue.

Instead, think of the special needs issue of requiring more time to load/unload. It doesn't matter the exact time, just that it's "more time than the loading area transit time". A moving platform doesn't solve this, it still has a defined hard stop amount of time allowed. The idea behind a special needs area is to create one with no time limit (or super huge, but I'm guessing none).

The only ways to create a no time limit loading scenario are to stop the entire line or use a car that's not on the line during the load process.


Obviously, this isn't done on most system, and increases the cost complexity to build and run. But, I'm sure someone at Disney did the math on the number of people that would need special loading, the interruption to service if they stopped the line every time, and the costs of the extra components to support it. If it was 1 time per day, they would probably just stop the line. There's probably an actuary somewhere with a graph that predicts exactly how many times per day stopping the line for special needs adds more disruption than the increased cost of building and running with a special needs loading option and another line for how many special needs loads they predict to occur per day. Depending on how close that intersection was, they either had an easy or hard decision to make. Projected out across the entire lifespan of the system, just to make it more fun.

 

[Lift Blog]

From what I can tell:
Epcot line: 26 towers total, 2 are up.
DHS line: 12 towers total, 9 are up.
Pop/AoA line: 12 towers total, 6 are up.

 

[SLUSHIE]

Thanks @Lift Blog for those drawings.

Yes I do think that the turn station is likely to see way less strollers and wheelchairs than the other stations, but I still think it's a hole in the concept.

I also think there is something to consistency. It may be confusing to guests that aren't familiar with ski lift if not all stations have a similar method for loading.

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

I want to summarize my concerns about the gondola at Pop Century here:

1. Without AC, it will be too hot. I only go to WDW in the summer, and it's always 95 by the afternoon, and I always travel back to the hotel in the afternoon to rest before heading back. But even in the morning, it is still rather hot being crammed in a bubble with 8 people all creating body heat and nothing but vents for cooling. The buses, in comparison, has powerful air conditioning.
2. The gondola will take too long from Pop to go to the 2 parks, I'm guessing about 15 minutes to HS and 22 minutes to Epcot, counting the transfer at Caribbean Beach and the stop at Rivera. (5 minutes each section, 5 minutes transfer, 2 minute stop at Rivera.) The buses currently take only 10 minutes.
3. The transfer is too crowded. The transfer station at Caribbean beach will be servicing 3 large hotels going to 2 parks all together. That's 6 bus stops full worth of people. Say if I want to go from Caribbean beach to HS, I will being joining the line not just from people from my own hotel but two others all come pouring into my gondola station. Normally, CB's different buildings have separate bus stops. Now they have to all walk or take their internal bus to get to the gondola station, fight the mob from Pop and AofA, and finally get to HS. That will take a lot longer than the bus. The Rivera won't have the problem going to Epcot, but they still need to transfer for HS. The gondola may reduce wait time, or it may extend it, depending on how fast it can load and unload.
4. Pop will raise the price to help pay for the gondola.

I can, of course, move to All Stars, but Pop has been my favorite resort for years, and it is such a shame that I can't stay there because of the gondola. Some people ask why worry about it now, when the gondola is still a year away? Because I have to plan my vacation a year ahead, so I need to decide soon if I want to change to All Stars.

Of course, one can hope that the gondola won't be that hot, and it won't take that long, and the transfer won't be too crowded, and the prices won't hike, and the overall experience will be an improvement over the buses.

 

[marni1971]

So about the sight lines with the Eiffel Tower, there's only two real places in the park that you'd be able to see the gondola tower. This view is from near the beginning of the Mexico pavilion:

And from the bridge right outside of the France pavilion:

Mind you that if you go a little bit closer, it's hidden behind the buildings:

You might be able to see it from the Norway pavilion too, forgot to check.

Even including that, the yellow areas below should be the only places you will ever see that gondola tower, and the ones across the lagoon can be covered up pretty easily:

It really isn't that intruding to the area. It was certainly not as bad I as I imagined it would be.

It’s messy. And lazy.

 

[trainplane3]

It’s messy. And lazy.

Is there any sort of plan to extend the roofline or add props on to the top of the roofs around it? They surely did their research beforehand, right?

My (personal) slightly bigger concern is walking behind the pavilion and seeing the Eiffel Tower on a roof when Rat opens.