News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[Grimley1968]

Like this.

That is awesome. It used to be said a picture was worth a thousand words. This picture is worth far more than that, IMO.

Do you think that the super long straight sections (compared to most other lifts in existence) are there to give Disney guests more time to load and unload, or is there a more functional reason for such length?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Have we seen any pictures of the Riviera station or is it not done enough yet, to know if they can just unwrap this concept and do the same thing?

Just take this picture, and make it a straight line, all going one direction. Half way through, the main line door closes and the car goes straight. The Special Needs car is pulled out, allowing the main path to go behind it. Still no crossing the travel path for anyone. The opposite side doing the same thing for the other direction. Mentally grab the top line by the arrow pointing left and pull it around the left arrow pointing up, so it's a straight line all in one direction of travel, unbend the curves on the right.


PS: I suggested a year ago they would pull cars off the main travel path for a stationary loading, working out the capacity issues on that extra area along with swapping the cars in and out of the main travel path, and communication issues so they don't run out of space. After all, even a slow special needs loader doesn't have any worse mobility than a box of supplies does on it's own. This was followed by a series of replies that they were not doing it, it wasn't possible, and required stopping the line to accomplish (which would defeat the purpose).

PPS: Yes, I've read all the pages, clearly I have a problem. Looking forward to these being done.

Riviera is too tight of a turn.

 

[cosmicgirl]

That is awesome. It used to be said a picture was worth a thousand words. This picture is worth far more than that, IMO.

Do you think that the super long straight sections (compared to most other lifts in existence) are there to give Disney guests more time to load and unload, or is there a more functional reason for such length?

The length of the station would indeed give guests more time to load and unload. If I'm not mistaken a byproduct of that would be that they could increase capacity by decreasing the standard time interval between launches. Theoretically speaking this would be possible as long as the cable can support the number of cabins. If they stick with the standard cable speed range this would mean putting cabins closer together on the cable, meaning more cabins on the cable at the same time. Alternatively, they could keep the distance between cabins within the standard range and increase the cable speed beyond the standard range to accommodate a shorter launch interval.
This is obviously nothing but guesswork on my part, but we're starting to see that they decided to supersize things beyond the standard catalogue, so who knows? It would sure help to explain the budget and fit with the expectation of unprecedented capacity.

 

[mmascari]

Riviera is too tight of a turn.

What does that even mean?

In a normal end station, like the DHS or CBR, there's a line in, 180 degree turn (or 2 of those staggered each making a 180 degree turn in this case), and the line back out.

The Riviera station is essentially 2 of these end stations back to back. Where the normal end station line makes a 180 degree turn exiting the way it came in, instead a smaller turn is made and the line exits the opposite end. Instead of the line making a 180 degree turn, it makes a smaller bend and goes out the other station end.

Looking at these pictures:






If I was guessing, when they add the top and the mechanics to move the cars through the station disconnected from the main line, we'll see two secondary paths. One on the outside of the bend, and one on the inside of the bend. Starting from the left bottom, cars will enter the station, unload on the straight away, doors close, make the corner, doors open, load on the straight away and exit top right. When the doors close, we'll see that a car can be pulled down to take a longer path around the corner, letting the main path go behind it. On the other side, cars entering from the top right will unload, doors close, corner, doors open, load exit top left. With the ability to pull a car up before the corner, a less tight turn, letting the main path go behind it. In both cases, the pulled out car will is between unloading and loading zones, exactly like the end station.

 

[cosmicgirl]

One thing that strikes me about Riviera is how similar the concrete foundations are to what we've already seen. I guess I was expecting something more simplified than the main stations.

Based on what we've seen of the DHS line stations it looks like Riviera would also have 2 bull wheels, meaning two separate cables instead of one long one. We're also seeing the same set-up of two long concrete pylons in each direction, which would suggest 4 different rail segments between both cables. Using the DHS station for reference we know that 1 is for the steel beams, 2 is for the steel support near the bull wheel, and 3 and 4 are for rail segments. (Pictures courtesy of the almighty Bioreconstruct.)

The long pylons in the middle (number 4) are angled differently at Riviera due to the bend but structurally speaking the foundations appear to be the same as they are elsewhere. The big surprise will be the shape of the rail segments and whether or not they can also accommodate two loading areas.

 

[cosmicgirl]

What does that even mean?

In a normal end station, like the DHS or CBR, there's a line in, 180 degree turn (or 2 of those staggered each making a 180 degree turn in this case), and the line back out.

The Riviera station is essentially 2 of these end stations back to back. Where the normal end station line makes a 180 degree turn exiting the way it came in, instead a smaller turn is made and the line exits the opposite end. Instead of the line making a 180 degree turn, it makes a smaller bend and goes out the other station end.

Looking at these pictures:






If I was guessing, when they add the top and the mechanics to move the cars through the station disconnected from the main line, we'll see two secondary paths. One on the outside of the bend, and one on the inside of the bend. Starting from the left bottom, cars will enter the station, unload on the straight away, doors close, make the corner, doors open, load on the straight away and exit top right. When the doors close, we'll see that a car can be pulled down to take a longer path around the corner, letting the main path go behind it. On the other side, cars entering from the top right will unload, doors close, corner, doors open, load exit top left. With the ability to pull a car up before the corner, a less tight turn, letting the main path go behind it. In both cases, the pulled out car will is between unloading and loading zones, exactly like the end station.

I see what you mean, but wouldn't that require additional concrete pylons next to the main track to put the additional side tracks on?

 

[imarc]

I see what you mean, but wouldn't that require additional concrete pylons next to the main track to put the additional side tracks on?

So are you saying that they must construct additional pylons?

 

[GeneralKnowledge]

So are you saying that they must construct additional pylons?

Judging solely from their construction speed I would’ve guessed Disney was of the Terran race.

 

[cosmicgirl]

So are you saying that they must construct additional pylons?

I'm saying that for the two stations we've seen the secondary tracks each have their own pylon (numbers 3 and 4 above). If the secondary tracks were to be next to the main tracks at Riviera instead of behind the main tracks as is the case for the other stations, then I believe they would've put up separate pylons to support the secondary tracks next to the main track. The lack thereof leads me to believe that this is not the way they're going. But again, this is just guesswork based on the pictures.

Edit: I just Googled the phrase. Sorry, it's not my territory!

 

[imarc]

Judging solely from their construction speed I would’ve guessed Disney was of the Terran race.

It felt like they Zerg rushed the GotG foundation the other day... then again the video was timelapsed.

 

[mmascari]

I see what you mean, but wouldn't that require additional concrete pylons next to the main track to put the additional side tracks on?

I have no idea. That's why I'm not building it.

But, they have covered the concept in all the end station mechanics that we've seen. It would seem silly that the system designers decided to just ignore that same topic on the mid station.

Plus, we know that ski resorts with mid stations swap out cargo carriers at the mid stations, especially if it has a restaurant. There was a video a few pages ago. So, it's not a completely novel concept. Even if the exact mechanics are slightly different.

 

[Grimley1968]

I'm saying that for the two stations we've seen the secondary tracks each have their own pylon (numbers 3 and 4 above). If the secondary tracks were to be next to the main tracks at Riviera instead of behind the main tracks as is the case for the other stations, then I believe they would've put up separate pylons to support the secondary tracks next to the main track. The lack thereof leads me to believe that this is not the way they're going. But again, this is just guesswork based on the pictures.

I agree. If other concrete pylons were needed, they would have been poured already.

 

[Lift Blog]

Have we seen any pictures of the Riviera station or is it not done enough yet, to know if they can just unwrap this concept and do the same thing?

Just take this picture, and make it a straight line, all going one direction. Half way through, the main line door closes and the car goes straight. The Special Needs car is pulled out, allowing the main path to go behind it. Still no crossing the travel path for anyone. The opposite side doing the same thing for the other direction. Mentally grab the top line by the arrow pointing left and pull it around the left arrow pointing up, so it's a straight line all in one direction of travel, unbend the curves on the right.


PS: I suggested a year ago they would pull cars off the main travel path for a stationary loading, working out the capacity issues on that extra area along with swapping the cars in and out of the main travel path, and communication issues so they don't run out of space. After all, even a slow special needs loader doesn't have any worse mobility than a box of supplies does on it's own. This was followed by a series of replies that they were not doing it, it wasn't possible, and required stopping the line to accomplish (which would defeat the purpose).

I was one of the ones who dismissed the double loading scenario and I was dead wrong! It had never been done before with a gondola.

Do you think that the super long straight sections (compared to most other lifts in existence) are there to give Disney guests more time to load and unload, or is there a more functional reason for such length?

Take the entire middle section out of the picture above and you have a normal gondola. The straight sections are used solely for acceleration/deceleration and all loading/unloading takes place at the curve.

My current guess on the Riviera Station based on the masts is below. Disney had the choice of clockwise or counterclockwise and this curve probably weighed heavily on that. I do not see how double loading is possible as it would require four paths for gondolas (two in each direction.) I would love to be proven wrong.

 

[mmascari]

My current guess on the Riviera Station based on the masts is below. I do not see how double loading is possible as it would require four paths for gondolas (two in each direction.) I would love to be proven wrong. The direction of travel is just for demonstration. Disney had the choice of clockwise or counterwise and this curve probably weighed heavily on that.

In this picture, how many haul lines are there? Is that just 1 line, with some crazy path around all those wheels, or do you think there's 2 seperate lines, each with it's own drive?

I'm thinking there is just 1 haul line, but I've got no idea how it makes that path through the station....


I think your picture is right, but you're missing some unload/load area scale that's not present at most ski areas. This scale is probably what the boardwalk turn station looks like, but the green area is only for emergencies, not normal loading. So, they don't have to worry about a secondary path. In an emergency, you just stop the line if needed.

Between the words "From Hub" and "Door Open", double or triple the distance. In the pictures, the straight away is much longer than the corner area. Now that you have more distance, create an Unload area between "From Hub" and "Door Open", then change "Door Open" to "Door Close". Have the main line make the journey in green with the door closed, no loading here. Make the same scale change for the exit side and you create a Loading area between what's currently "Door Close" and "Exit to Epcot". Change "Door Close" to "Door Reopen", Loading, Door Close, Exit to Epcot then.

With those changes, the area currently in green becomes the area with 2 travel paths in each direction. The special car is pulled away from the main line to the outside of the green area and stopped. The main car travels through the green area, doors closed. On the outside, the special car is making a longer trip, on the inside, it's cutting the corner short.

No idea what's possible, but that's the path I would follow consistent with the other stations and requirements. Or, we're all wrong, and it's not for special loading and just to add capacity space for loading, which they don't need to do in the middle because of the super long sides.

 

[FerretAfros]

My current guess on the Riviera Station based on the masts is below. Disney had the choice of clockwise or counterclockwise and this curve probably weighed heavily on that. I do not see how double loading is possible as it would require four paths for gondolas (two in each direction.) I would love to be proven wrong.

Based on the layout of the transfer/hub station, I suspect all 3 lines will operate clockwise. Presumably the Epcot and Studios lines will carry the most guests, and therefore need the most queue space. Clockwise operation allows queue space within the building, and easy transfers between the two heavily-traveled lines. Based on the foundations, the easternmost portion of the building does not appear to be intended for gondola storage

The Pop line will have relatively low ridership which wouldn't warrant much queue space, so it could operate in either direction. For the sake of clarity and wayfinding, it would be logical to operate it clockwise as well, to keep the entrance queue separated from the Studios line

This is obviously a crude sketch, but it shows how crowdflow could work through the central terminal station. The bold lines denote gondola operations, while the thin lines are general guest movement patterns

 

[pdude81]

In this picture, how many haul lines are there? Is that just 1 line, with some crazy path around all those wheels, or do you think there's 2 seperate lines, each with it's own drive?

I'm thinking there is just 1 haul line, but I've got no idea how it makes that path through the station....

I imagine they have would have to be separate haul ropes in order for the cars to slow down or detach in the station? Otherwise it'd be a bit tricky to get on or off at the Riviera.

My current guess on the Riviera Station based on the masts is below. Disney had the choice of clockwise or counterclockwise and this curve probably weighed heavily on that. I do not see how double loading is possible as it would require four paths for gondolas (two in each direction.) I would love to be proven wrong.

As complete speculation, could they have a 2-story loading system at the station? Maybe this is impossible, but let's say the longer haul ropes let off at main wheels at the very edges of the station. There would be a main platform where the chairs continue moving on a slower line, but also a lower platform where chairs disconnect and move to a manual queue but can head back up to the main section after loading. This might even allow for one ECV accessible platform in the middle to gain access to either direction.

 

[mmascolino]

There is not necessarily a need for separate haul ropes to support detachment/attachment. After all, in a normal terminal station for a gondola or detachable chair, this is achieved.

 

[Lift Blog]

The entire International Gateway-Board Walk-Riviera-CBB South line could be one haul rope. Or two. Or three. Because it’s not all that long by gondola standards, I’d guess one rope. It just requires a lot of bullwheels to do the deflecting at the turn stations. But probably still cheaper than tripling the drive units. We should know as soon as the bullwheels are mounted at Riviera and Board Walk. The biggest reason for multiple ropes would be if Disney wanted the ability to run the segments independently.

 

[nickys]

So I think I understand the double loading system for the end of line stations, thanks to some amazing diagrams, but I have a question.

As the cars approach the station, we have cars A,B,C,D,E and F. All travelling at a fixed spacing, and then as they come off the main cable they slow right down and come into the station. Unload, round the 180 turn and load again on the other side. Back onto the main cable and off they go, accelerating to normal travel speed.

So car C gets pulled off to unload an ECV and slows almost to a complete halt, or is even stopped. When it's ready to rejoin the main line, what happens? Let's say it's now going to rejoin after car F, so does it rejoin before G but with a reduced spacing between F, C and G, or does everything else have to slow right down to allow it to rejoin? In which case, isn't the whole line then affected because car G is then held up, to allow normal spacing to resume, and then H and so on?

Who knew the workings of gondola systems could be so fascinating?

 

[MisterPenguin]

Who knew the workings of gondola systems could be so fascinating?

I hear there's a whole blog devoted just to lifts around the world!!