News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[RustySpork]

You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The perception of cool air comes from the transfer of heat, so yes the body is being cooled.

I understand that it makes you feel cool, and that it transfers heat. My point is how cool can your body possibly get if you're passing 99 degree 80% humid air across it? If there's no evaporation (because of high humidity) the whole cooling process starts to break down as you're not optimally removing heat.

 

[Minthorne]

I understand that it makes you feel cool, and it transfers heat. My point is how cool can your body possibly get if you're passing 99 degree 80% humid air across it? If there's no evaporation the whole cooling process breaks down because you're not optimally removing heat.

It's thermodynamics baby! It's pretty cool.

https://www.livescience.com/34062-breeze-feel-cool.html

 

[RustySpork]

It's thermodynamics baby! It's pretty cool.

https://www.livescience.com/34062-breeze-feel-cool.html

Thanks, you're actually helping make my point.

Heat is removed from the skin by processes of evaporation, convection, radiation and conduction. For any of these to happen, molecules in the air must bump against the hot (i.e. rapidly jiggling) molecules of our skin, so that some of that heat energy can be transferred from the latter to the former molecules. After they've made contact, the air molecules must move away, carrying what used to be our body heat with them in the form of jiggling.

Now add 80% humidity. It was actually 90% for a portion of the day today. When humidity is very high evaporation is greatly reduced or even eliminated which is why it feels hotter on a hot day when it's humid than when it is not.

 

[larryz]

Thanks, you're actually helping make my point.

Heat is removed from the skin by processes of evaporation, convection, radiation and conduction. For any of these to happen, molecules in the air must bump against the hot (i.e. rapidly jiggling) molecules of our skin, so that some of that heat energy can be transferred from the latter to the former molecules. After they've made contact, the air molecules must move away, carrying what used to be our body heat with them in the form of jiggling.

Now add 80% humidity. It was actually 90% for a portion of the day today. When humidity is very high evaporation is greatly reduced or even eliminated which is why it feels hotter on a hot day when it's humid than when it is not.

Have these folks never been at WDW on a hot day right after a thunderstorm goes thru? As soon as the sun comes back out, with 95 degrees and 90% humidity, a breeze doesn't do much cooling...

 

[RustySpork]

Have these folks never been at WDW on a hot day right after a thunderstorm goes thru? As soon as the sun comes back out, with 95 degrees and 90% humidity, a breeze doesn't do much cooling...

I really don't think they have.

 

[GoofGoof]

Have these folks never been at WDW on a hot day right after a thunderstorm goes thru? As soon as the sun comes back out, with 95 degrees and 90% humidity, a breeze doesn't do much cooling...

Gondola systems without A/C exist around the world in climates as hot or hotter than Orlando. It's not like Disney doesn't have a whole bunch of data to base this off of.

 

[flynnibus]

I understand that it makes you feel cool, and that it transfers heat. My point is how cool can your body possibly get if you're passing 99 degree 80% humid air across it? If there's no evaporation (because of high humidity) the whole cooling process starts to break down as you're not optimally removing heat.

The point isn't to be like indoors in ac... the point is to not make the cabins worse than ambient. So the system is working to ensure there isn't a build up - not to try to cool the environment with the same temp air.

 

[larryz]

The point isn't to be like indoors in ac... the point is to not make the cabins worse than ambient. So the system is working to ensure there isn't a build up - not to try to cool the environment with the same temp air.

Well, like I said, I'm going to be pleasantly surprised if they can pull it off.

 

[JoeCamel]

I really don't think they have.

You continue to use 99 as the temp while beating this horse. Not in real life FL unless it is exceptionally dry. The humidity keeps a cap on the temps to 92 - 93F max. That is lower than body temp and can cool if moving across the skin causing evaporation

 

[BlindChow]

This will be no better or worse than sitting on the ferries, the TTC trams, etc. They are not going to be mini human microwaves.

So wait, are the gondolas to be open-air like the the trams and ferries? Because if not, these comparisons ring hollow. The fact you aren't completely enclosed in fiberglass is a huge reason those two are tolerable in the Florida sun.

 

[GoofGoof]

So wait, are the gondolas to be open-air like the the trams and ferries? Because if not, these comparisons ring hollow. The fact you aren't completely enclosed in fiberglass is a huge reason those two are tolerable in the Florida sun.

The gondolas are completely enclosed. The reason the tram and ferries are tolerable is that they are in motion and the moving air keeps things cooler. What we're hearing from people more in the know is these gondola systems used around the world have a ventilation system which will keep the air moving and being fully enclosed they block out the harsh rays of the sun too. It won't feel as cool as an air conditioned bus, but it shouldn't be uncomfortable either. I have no personal experience with these systems but I've been convinced by those here with first hand knowledge that they do work. I also can't see Disney investing money in a system that wouldn't work. They are looking to upcharge guests and are fully aware of the climate at WDW.

 

[Creathir]

The gondolas are completely enclosed. The reason the tram and ferries are tolerable is that they are in motion and the moving air keeps things cooler. What we're hearing from people more in the know is these gondola systems used around the world have a ventilation system which will keep the air moving and being fully enclosed they block out the harsh rays of the sun too. It won't feel as cool as an air conditioned bus, but it shouldn't be uncomfortable either. I have no personal experience with these systems but I've been convinced by those here with first hand knowledge that they do work. I also can't see Disney investing money in a system that wouldn't work. They are looking to upcharge guests and are fully aware of the climate at WDW.

My biggest concern is that these are little terrariums dangling form a cable 30'-50' in the air.

No shade on them, some over asphalt parking lots, others over lakes/wet lands.

As others have pointed out, what happens when these things are stopped for 2 hours due to a mechanical issue.

They are going to get awfully hot awfully fast.

Ever sit in your car with the windows up on a hot summer day? How long does it remain comfortable? How long does it remain safe?

That to me the the biggest problem with the lack of at least a powered ventilation system or windows which open up, let alone a full blown A/C.

All it takes is for ONE incident to be a PR disaster.

Who ever is deciding to shave the bucks and not provide something which could help protect guests is a fool. One elderly person or infant who dies from heat exhaustion due to something entirely preventable will doom this entire project.

Penny pinching is not something which should be done, when guest safety is at stake.

These are likely to be some of the most used gondolas in the world once open, in an environment which likely can be dangerous if just s few conditions are met. Unlike the HK gondola (which has had its own share of incidents, including gondolas falling off the cable) the traffic on the Disney system will be higher, meaning the potentiality for an incident being higher.

Disney needs to rethink the "forced air ventilation" design.

 

[NoChesterHester]

So many experts on thermodynamics here....

 

[flynnibus]

My biggest concern is that these are little terrariums dangling form a cable 30'-50' in the air.

No shade on them, some over asphalt parking lots, others over lakes/wet lands.

As others have pointed out, what happens when these things are stopped for 2 hours due to a mechanical issue.

They are going to get awfully hot awfully fast.

Ever sit in your car with the windows up on a hot summer day? How long does it remain comfortable? How long does it remain safe?

That to me the the biggest problem with the lack of at least a powered ventilation system or windows which open up, let alone a full blown A/C.

All it takes is for ONE incident to be a PR disaster.

Who ever is deciding to shave the bucks and not provide something which could help protect guests is a fool. One elderly person or infant who dies from heat exhaustion due to something entirely preventable will doom this entire project.

Penny pinching is not something which should be done, when guest safety is at stake.

These are likely to be some of the most used gondolas in the world once open, in an environment which likely can be dangerous if just s few conditions are met. Unlike the HK gondola (which has had its own share of incidents, including gondolas falling off the cable) the traffic on the Disney system will be higher, meaning the potentiality for an incident being higher.

Disney needs to rethink the "forced air ventilation" design.

How many times are you going to rehash this? You've told your tale of fear a rediculous number of times already. Isn't it about time to just wait until you actually have concrete before beating the drum some more?

 

[BlindChow]

The gondolas are completely enclosed. The reason the tram and ferries are tolerable is that they are in motion and the moving air keeps things cooler.

The reason the tram and ferries are tolerable is that they are completely open air. The air movement cooling the guests when in motion is completely dependent on that. All I'm saying is the comparison between these and the gondolas is a non-sequitir. One of these things is not like the other.

There may well be a system of "vents" that allows cooling of a completely enclosed glass box when in motion, but that is NOT what is cooling the trams and ferries.

I also can't see Disney investing money in a system that wouldn't work

*Disney cuts the budget for Disneyland's Rocket Rods, eliminating the banked turns, which dooms the ride after only a year of operation*

 

[GoofGoof]

My biggest concern is that these are little terrariums dangling form a cable 30'-50' in the air.

No shade on them, some over asphalt parking lots, others over lakes/wet lands.

As others have pointed out, what happens when these things are stopped for 2 hours due to a mechanical issue.

They are going to get awfully hot awfully fast.

Ever sit in your car with the windows up on a hot summer day? How long does it remain comfortable? How long does it remain safe?

That to me the the biggest problem with the lack of at least a powered ventilation system or windows which open up, let alone a full blown A/C.

All it takes is for ONE incident to be a PR disaster.

Who ever is deciding to shave the bucks and not provide something which could help protect guests is a fool. One elderly person or infant who dies from heat exhaustion due to something entirely preventable will doom this entire project.

Penny pinching is not something which should be done, when guest safety is at stake.

These are likely to be some of the most used gondolas in the world once open, in an environment which likely can be dangerous if just s few conditions are met. Unlike the HK gondola (which has had its own share of incidents, including gondolas falling off the cable) the traffic on the Disney system will be higher, meaning the potentiality for an incident being higher.

Disney needs to rethink the "forced air ventilation" design.

These systems have no connection to a power source in transit. In order to have AC you would need to have a battery attached to each car that charges at each station. It's unlikely that the battery would last 2 hours or even close to that so if they had onboard AC or even electric fans those systems would fail in your example too.

 

[Creathir]

How many times are you going to rehash this? You've told your tale of fear a rediculous number of times already. Isn't it about time to just wait until you actually have concrete before beating the drum some more?

As to a 2 hour stoppage:
https://asiancorrespondent.com/2012/02/ngong-ping-360s-latest-mishap/#9vI6lEOwW8IrhTIQ.97

And the car falling happened 10 years ago, but here is a ski lift site referencing it with pictures if you log in:
http://www.skilifts.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=5686

 

[GoofGoof]

The reason the tram and ferries are tolerable is that they are completely open air. The air movement cooling the guests when in motion is completely dependent on that. All I'm saying is the comparison between these and the gondolas is a non-sequitir. One of these things is not like the other.

There may well be a system of "vents" that allows cooling of a completely enclosed glass box when in motion, but that is NOT what is cooling the trams and ferries.

Having vents is not the same thing as open air. I've never personally been on a gondola system with a completely closed cabin except at a ski resort in the cold so I can't say whether that ventilation will be better, worse or the same as open air would be. People who have experienced it say it's not an issue. I am choosing to believe them.

*Disney cuts the budget for Disneyland's Rocket Rods, eliminating the banked turns, which dooms the ride after only a year of operation*

Apples and oranges. Disney isn't designing or building this gondola system. It's pretty much off the shelf purchased from a company that builds them with plenty of experience around the world. They have had ample time to investigate the climate control options.

 

[King Panda 77]

And the car falling happened 10 years ago, but here is a ski lift site referencing it with pictures if you log in:
http://www.skilifts.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=5686

When you read further down it seems that the company Disney is using didn't bid to build this track as it wasn't suitable. Management also decided to speed up the system beyond normal operating speeds.

 

[King Panda 77]

So have we decided if we are going to roast to death or plummet to our deaths?

Just need to make the appropriate plans.

Your going to get trampled by a runaway ecv before you get to the loading dock .