New DVC Resales Restrictions

[Jeffxz]

When you go to the ToTW lounge, they only scan your MB or room key. It tells them if you are staying on points or not. You don't have to show your member card, at least we never have.

Points only reservations are no longer required to get into ToTW. Any member staying at any Disney resort using cash or points is allowed to go to the lounge.

 

[xdan0920]

Considering when they first started this it was only for members staying at BLT on points and no one else, it may go back to that. I hope not, but you never know.

Based on my experience there, I think they would close it before they limited entry again. The place was dead the two times I went up.

If your decision to purchase was based on the margin of whether or not you got a small F&B discount, it's probably best that you're erring on the side of not purchasing.

Yes and no. If it's a financial thing, you're right. If it's a respect for your customer thing, then I disagree. If you are on the margin, money not being an issue, and you perceive Disney as abusing the relationship you have with them, then it's a perfectly reasonable response to not buy.

 

[matt9112]

It's a good thing if you're a direct owner like myself but I could see how it would anger people that aren't. I realize that not everyone can afford to buy directly but, at the same time, people aren't "entitled" to certain things when they sorta try to take a "shortcut" or whatever. As long as you have an actual direct contract you are good though.

It's all value shortcut is a bit harsh. If I buy a used car is it a shortcut? If it's clean and works fine I can roll a BMW instead of a ford. Or in my case simply pay less. I don't think it's a short cut to buy resale you already loose value based on age of contract.

 

[monothingie]

So just so I'm clear, I bought my points resale prior to today, so it doesn't affect me in anyway. What happens if I decide to add-on in the future via resale? Do I loose my ability to get membership perks, or am I still grandfathered in?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yes and no. If it's a financial thing, you're right. If it's a respect for your customer thing, then I disagree. If you are on the margin, money not being an issue, and you perceive Disney as abusing the relationship you have with them, then it's a perfectly reasonable response to not buy.

If you're buying from a reseller, you're not a customer.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

So just so I'm clear, I bought my points resale prior to today, so it doesn't affect me in anyway. What happens if I decide to add-on in the future via resale? Do I loose my ability to get membership perks, or am I still grandfathered in?

Yes. You are fine.

 

[matt9112]

If you're buying from a reseller, you're not a customer.

Because you won't ever go to there parks....or spend additional funds....that's like Nissan not agreeing to work on my maxima at all because I bought it second hand....

Edit: maybe Disney should ask why people sell period if the product blew socks off resale market would be rather small?

 

[DisneyJeff]

When you go to the ToTW lounge, they only scan your MB or room key. It tells them if you are staying on points or not. You don't have to show your member card, at least we never have.

We are renting DVC points for a stay this summer. Would we have access to ToTW lounge?

 

[slappy magoo]

Because you won't ever go to there parks....or spend additional funds....that's like Nissan not agreeing to work on my maxima at all because I bought it second hand....

Edit: maybe Disney should ask why people sell period if the product blew socks off resale market would be rather small?

There are lots of reasons why people resell their points, not being interested in going back to WDW being one of them. People need money. Sometimes couple get divorced and it's easier to sell their points versus determining who should get them or how they should be shared. The owner passes away and the heirs to his or her estate can't decide who should get them. Some times people buy a second round of add-on points, then decide it's too much. But I'd say most of the time it's about the money. People can't afford to keep going back, or they lose a job, or all the other costs involved in going to WDW makes it hard to justify keeping that asset.

Meanwhile, I honestly don't know how much this will affect the resale market. First of all, I suspect a good chunk of people who buy resale, are people who are already owners and adding on. And of those who aren't already DVC members, I'd bet for a lot of them, the money saved by buying resale is worth the loss of any benefits or discounts, especially if they wind up buying at the red-headed stepchildren of DVC, Old Key West & Saratoga Springs, where the cost of resale tends to be much lower than at most of the other resorts (not including Vero Beach or Hilton Head).

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'd bet for a lot of them, the money saved by buying resale is worth the loss of any benefits or discounts, especially if they wind up buying at the red-headed stepchildren of DVC, Old Key West & Saratoga Springs, where the cost of resale tends to be much lower than at most of the other resorts (not including Vero Beach or Hilton Head).

I have a question about that. Is the non-home resort availability so poor that you can't get anything at WDW if you own at Hilton Head? It seems like the best bang for your buck would be to buy at Hilton Head at ~$65 per point and then book one of the other resorts at seven months. Is there something in the program I'm not understanding?

 

[Phonedave]

Maybe Disney should ask why people sell period if the product blew socks off resale market would be rather small?

THAT, is the question. I am not planning on selling my DVC contract, but by the same token, I am no longer considering adding on. Maybe if WDW returned to something that we would once again go to on a yearly basis, we would be adding on. But, given the state of affairs of WDW, there is no draw to make me add on to my DVC. In fact, if 10 years ago, when I bought DVC, the parks were as they are today, I do not think I would have made that purchase. I'm not to the point of regrettng it, but I am no longer as thrilled about it as I once was.

-dave

 

[Phonedave]

I have a question about that. Is the non-home resort availability so poor that you can't get anything at WDW if you own at Hilton Head? It seems like the best bang for your buck would be to buy at Hilton Head at ~$65 per point and then book one of the other resorts at seven months. Is there something in the program I'm not understanding?

It depends on the time of year and the room you want. For the most part, there is always something available. However, it may not be where you want and it may not be the room size you want.

Is it worth it if all you want is a studio, but you have to own twice as many points because all you can ever get is a 2BR?

A lot of it depends on when you want to travel.

-dave

 

[glvsav37]

If you're buying from a reseller, you're not a customer.

First of all, I suspect a good chunk of people who buy resale, are people who are already owners and adding on. .

(not calling you 2 out specifically) But isn't this hypocritical? So Its ok to buy resale on contracts #2-whatever, but not on contract #1? Then if you are resale add on-er, are the stays where you use your direct points a "customer stay" while the other days you are not?

I just bring this up b/c Disney is now creating a class system within this club. Granted the divided mindset has always been there if you spend any time on "should I buy" threads, but whenever you heard "welcome home," you were part of a family. Now what DVC is doing is splitting that family and will rub all these benefits for members in the faces of the "oh, but not you" resale owners. Its not a matter of "if you are buying DVC for some benefits, then DVC isn't for you." Its a matter of DVC making resale owners feel like they don't belong there.

IMO, resale or not...the points were purchased. People need to sell them. Is it better for Disney to let those points go unused or fall into foreclosure? Bc if thats the case, then they miss out on all of the tickets, dining, excursions, and merch that those members would have also bought. Buying resale is nothing anyone is doing illegally or by ill willed ways. Often the price people are paying for the resale points are still higher then what the original member paid directly for them. All they are doing is the transfer of ownership.

 

[xdan0920]

I have a question about that. Is the non-home resort availability so poor that you can't get anything at WDW if you own at Hilton Head? It seems like the best bang for your buck would be to buy at Hilton Head at ~$65 per point and then book one of the other resorts at seven months. Is there something in the program I'm not understanding?

Nope. You can do that. Some resorts are harder then others to get into, and sometimes WDW is booked across the board though. Plus, you won't get the bare pittance of "extras" they send our way now.

 

[slappy magoo]

I have a question about that. Is the non-home resort availability so poor that you can't get anything at WDW if you own at Hilton Head? It seems like the best bang for your buck would be to buy at Hilton Head at ~$65 per point and then book one of the other resorts at seven months. Is there something in the program I'm not understanding?

If you own at HHI or VB, you have some flexibility with your dates, you could probably get a room at the 7 month window at (if nowhere else) OLW and SSR. Perhaps even VAK and BLT by virtue of their being so huge. But I will say this, our next trip, I booked SSR at the 11 month window, then switched to BLT at the 7 month window. One day earlier or later, I would not have been able to book the exact dates I wanted. It can be a crap shoot.

The other thing to consider if you're buying resale, is maintenance fees. I currently have 175 SSR points. Someone who owns that many points at HHI is paying $240 a year more in fees; someone who buys at Vero Beach, it's over $450 more a year. And my suspicion will be that the HHI/Vero beach dues will go up at a greater rate than SSR or any on-site resort. In part because WDW is so huge, insurance for DVC resorts (or DVC wings of other resorts) are rolled into all the other insurance, they probably get much better tax benefits than outside DVC resorts because it's such an integral part of the local economy, plus, while central Florida is far from hurricane-proof, it's not beachfront, like HHI & VB are. And on top of that, there aren't a lot of rooms at those resorts. I think HHI has a little over 100 rooms, VB 200, and again, those are technically DVC-only resorts. There aren't a lot of DVC units at some of the WDW resorts like Beach Club and Boardwalk but they're sections of larger resorts. Meanwhile, OKW & SSR might be "DVC-only" with handfuls of rooms available for the general population but they're huge, so that means there are so many more owners to spread the cost of maintenance. So, depending on how many resale points you were interested in, at a certain point, the extra money you'll shell out for maintenance at HHI or VB will make up for the initial savings. That, combined with the 7 month window, probably would gear more folks to buying an on-site home resort, if they're going to buy DVC points at all. Not necessarily any kind of deal-breaker, but something to consider.

 

[FNG]

Anyone think that DVC will start offering resale points of their own realizing that they are missing out on some revenue? They could offer resale contracts at rates likely higher than other resellers, but use the membership perks as a selling point? Just a thought.

 

[slappy magoo]

(not call you 2 out specifically) But isn't this hypocritical? So Its ok to buy resale on contracts #2-whatever, but not on contract #1? Then if you are resale add on-er, are the stays where you use your direct points a "customer stay" while the other days you are not? [\QUOTE]

I'm not sure how this is hypocritical. People can do whatever they want with their money. I'm just pointing out that it seems (to me, I could be wrong) that a lot of the resale market consists of people who are already DVC members, looking to add-on without spending as much money as they would buying direct from Disney, so technically they're still members and will get all of their perks and discounts regardless of which points they're using for any given trip. That is per an earlier post in this thread; DVC members will still be considered DVC members even if they then buy and use resale points. What might be interesting is, if you bought direct from DVC, THEN bought resale, AND THEN sold your original points but kept the resale. Of course I also doubt that happens all that often.

I just bring this up b/c Disney is now creating a class system within this club. Granted the divided mindset has always been there if you spend any time on "should I buy" threads, but whenever you heard "welcome home," you were part of a family. Now what DVC is doing is splitting that family and will rub all these benefits for members in the faces of the "oh, but not you" resale owners. Its not a matter of "if you are buying DVC for some benefits, then DVC isn't for you." Its a matter of DVC making resale owners feel like they don't belong there.

Considering much of the changes are bout perks and discounts, I doubt people will receive less customer service or be treated like second-class citizens, UNLESS they try to get a perk they are not entitled to. So if you don't try to rent watercraft and demand a DVC discount, no one is ever going to look at you funny.

IMO, resale or not...the points were purchased. People need to sell them. Is it better for Disney to let those points go unused or fall into foreclosure?

No, it's better for DVC to let someone try to sell the points, then they can swoop in and buy them under the Right of First Refusal, and then sell them to someone who wants an older resort to be their home resort BUT doesn't want to buy resale. Which happens; apparently there is a waiting list for people who, say, want Boardwalk to be their home resort but either don't want to buy resale or don't know it's an option, so they wait until there's inventory again, and DVC gets inventory whenever someone is selling their points and DVC thinks it's too low a price so they buy it away from the potential new buyer. But if that happens, then at least they're matching the price that the seller is requesting, so the seller is no worse off whether the buyer is Joe Schmo or DVC.

Bc if thats the case, then they miss out on all of the tickets, dining, excursions, and merch that those members would have also bought. Buying resale is nothing anyone is doing illegally or by ill willed ways. Often the price people are paying for the resale points are still higher then what the original member paid directly for them. All they are doing is the transfer of ownership.

No argument here, but again, if someone wants to buy DVC resale that much, it's probably because they expect to go to DVC quite a bit, and they may decide the savings of buying resale more than offsets any discount they're losing. Time will tell; it's possible DVC will decide these changes are too punitive and rescind them. But they're clearly going to try it first and see how it affects membership and resale. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they DO rescind these restrictions.

 

[DVC Mike]

As usual, a change like this will fire up the boards for a few days, but longer term I don't think DVC sales will be harmed by this change. True, DVC will lose the goodwill of some existing members who think this is yet another of the changes that are making DVC more like a typical timeshare and less of how they envisioned DVC.

I don't think DVC would make such a business decision without considering the pros and cons that would result. Disney obviously feels that this will help their direct sales more than hurt them. We can argue about whether they are right or wrong, but only time will tell.

 

[EthanMagicBands]

Member Lounge above Figment may get delayed or just outright cancelled. There are structural problems with the floor on the upper level, and the project is now over budget. We'll know for sure soon.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Member Lounge above Figment may get delayed or just outright cancelled. There are structure problems with the floor on the upper level, and the project is now over budget. We'll know for sure soon.

?? Structural problems??