New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[flynnibus]

But…. DAS returns are solely based on the POSTED wait time. If the wait time increased as it should with more people in the VQ, which should then necessitate a higher merge, the increased wait would spread out the returns for DAS.

Now you're pointing about a topic that is more about the frequency of when an update should be done... and less about what the estimate is based on.

Assigning a DAS return time doesn't increase standby wait... it increases LL queue wait at some point in the future.

Only when the LL/standby merge ratio changes does the standby wait ever change due to someone being given a DAS/return time.

The problem is the more overcrowded the LL is... the more frequently that merge ratio 'relief value' is used... causing a spike in standby waits. And the overcrowding is hard to predict.

If it's an attraction that sustains such loads on the LL - then they would change the merge ratio more long term.. and the standby estimate would reflect that capacity.

 

[hopemax]

Unless this has changed, posted wait times have always been set at the ride itself with no input in any VQ information. While some extra time is “cooked in” it is just a guess and not based on real numbers. So when people claim “unaccounted for” DAS users causing fluctuations in LL waits it really is just Disneys unwillingness to use all the tools available to provide real information.

The only thing that should cause the wait times to be different vs what is posted is slowness in loading. The technology exists that Disney could get near exact numbers of people in standby lines plus add the known VQ’s to get a much better wait time and alleviate the extended LL queues.

The situations I would like to know what if anything Disney is doing to account for them, is changes based on large shows / entertainment finishing. Because the worst time to be a standby guest is after a parade ends or a large theater empties, because a ton of people all rush to the same nearby attractions to use their LL before their window expires.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I've not heard the "folks who visit the parks for a couple of hours, ride a few things and then head out" bit be a factor in anyone getting approved (or not). That sounds like a very hard thing to quantify, and likely to align more with annual passholders than guests who come once a year or less...

No, I'm not saying that that's what they are looking for specifically. But they are issuing the pass to folks who seriously cannot experience the parks any other way including waiting for their party to be ready to board while waiting somewhere else.

 

[flynnibus]

The reality is that the “extra” time is a static number made up by the ride ops with no input from real numbers of people actually in the VQ. Of course if the only people getting on the ride are the people in line the waits would be less. That’s not what I am saying.

Granted, ops should know the number of G+ slots being reserved so that number should be static(ish) but the addition of DAS as a variable number throws off the posted wait times.
Which is where the real number should drive the change. Which would mean that the people who try to select a ride would see a higher wait and a longer return time and thus reduce the crazy LL back ups which happen.

You're missing a core concept here.

As long as the LL is not empty... it's impact on standby is a CONSTANT. It does not matter how many people are in the LL.. as long as it's not depleted. The number of people in queue BEYOND the number of people needed for each merge batch is not relevant to the posted standby time. The merge ratio is a linear function normally.

The only impact is when the LL is depleted... so the impact on standby would then decrease... or when the merge ratio is changed.

The problem is when LL returns clog up the LL queue due to concentrations or other unreliable patterns.

I don't need to count every DAS assignment if statistically the usage is predictable and my other LL assignments account for it. The actual goal is to manage how deep the LL queue trends... which dictates how many scheduled LL/G+ they give out. That number is already accounting for a predicted # of unscheduled LL users... like returns, DAS, etc. A portion of their LL queue availability is already planned for these 'unscheduled' users.

The problems are when there are great spikes in demand that are not planned for... so the LL backs up, and operationally they use the relief value to bring the LL back in check... which causes an unplanned reduction in standby throughput... and would weaken your new estimates AT THAT TIME. You can't do anything about the people who were given an estimate 30mins ago when they got in line, and then standby slowed 30mins later.... because you aren't giving those people already in line a wait estimate. They had one estimate that was based on when they got in line.. it's not a running ETA.

The problem isn't giving out a DAS ... the problem is when you give out far more than you were expecting, or more come back at a time than you were expecting.

And assessing when that spike hits is fuzzy math because of large return windows.


The topic about LL merging changing and not reflecting in standby times is a topic of LAG. The fact it would take time between the change happening, and the frequency of when the new standby wait time would be updated.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

There are differences between service dogs and emotional support pets. Service dogs have a lot of specific training. They are not supposed to be pet by strangers while wearing vests, for ex. Service dogs aren't just intended for people who are blind, but also - for ex - for people who have epilepsy. (The link has more examples).

Emotional support animals are a wholly separate thing and there do need to be distinctions drawn between the two. They are vastly different.

Sorry I thought at this point most of us know the difference between an emotional support dog and service dog. I apologize for not defining it clearly enough, the word "service" had just escaped my mind.

But that was kind of my point, with DAS. There are people that clearly have a need for accommodation, and by clearly I don't mean they show something physically or display a certain behavior. They have a condition that requires it. But what happened is it became a catch all and people with issues that might make a line wait harder than average but not impossible were joining those where it was impossible or at least excruciating.
Much like the dog...one(service) needs and relies on it the other(support) often just enjoys it and it makes things easier. In my mind the need for DAS is that. Does one need this and rely on it to visit or is one hoping to have it because it just makes things a little easier.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I do wonder with these changes if Disney significantly reduces the Genie+ pricing to sell more at which point we'd just be back to square one. I hope not.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

Well my husband made salads from the toppings bar so my perspective is a bit different

Honestly, if someone told me to use a service only when necessary I would be extremely careful with it. If not, I wouldn’t have thought twice about using it as much as possible.

Ha. I haven't gone that far. We have turned a meal into 2 or 3 at Pecos Bills topping bar.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Sorry I thought at this point most of us know the difference between an emotional support dog and service dog. I apologize for not defining it clearly enough, the word "service" had just escaped my mind.

I appreciate this - sadly IME no a lot of people don't, so I don't assume

 

[Angel Ariel]

I do wonder with these changes if Disney significantly reduces the Genie+ pricing to sell more at which point we'd just be back to square one. I hope not.

Doubtful. There's no reason to do so. If anything they'll just up the number of genie+ spots, which will still result in LL being 20+ mins.

 

[Purduevian]

Doubtful. There's no reason to do so. If anything they'll just up the number of genie+ spots, which will still result in LL being 20+ mins.

I don't understand this, why would Disney want 20+ mins of LL standby if they can now better predict/control the amount of people entering the LL? Why not just keep it ~5-10mins and alter the ratio at the end if the goal is to sell more.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

An increase in slots sold via Genie+ is still a win IMO for everyone (guests and Disney alike) but the former DAS users who are no longer approved.

 

[TTA94]

No, I'm not saying that that's what they are looking for specifically. But they are issuing the pass to folks who seriously cannot experience the parks any other way including waiting for their party to be ready to board while waiting somewhere else.

I am assuming they are approving those who have a party of two and the individual with conditions can not be left alone? Therefore RTQ would not be an option for them?

 

[Chi84]

I am assuming they are approving those who have a party of two and the individual with conditions can not be left alone? Therefore RTQ would not be an option for them?

I believe people are being told to advise the CM at the attraction and then follow their instructions.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I do wonder with these changes if Disney significantly reduces the Genie+ pricing to sell more at which point we'd just be back to square one. I hope not.

I’m not sure of much in this life, but I am sure that Disney is not reducing the G+ price one cent.

 

[aprilibeth]

Has anyone's kiddo with Level 1 autism been approved under the new system?

My son has level 1 and got denied today. We have used das in the past. We are passholders who are typically in the park for only a.few hours then leave to head back and relax at the resort. It worked for my son who if the wait is too long will vocally stim by singing. We don't want to bother others and will try to distract him by talking about other things, playing games etc but he will inevitably go back to singing. Now I'm the lady in line quieting my kid constantly to not disturb others with 2 younger kids. I was told we should use return to queue. I guarantee we will not be returning to most rides if we leave the line. Also we will now be bringing constant attention to my son who is sensitive about autism in the first place. I'm pretty disgusted with the whole situation. We will go early and leave around lunch. Probably be done for the day. Maybe next year we do universal instead and just stay in the premier hotels for unlimited express. Vacation shouldn't be stressful but Disney seems to be making it that way.

 

[KrzyKtty]

My son has level 1 and got denied today. We have used das in the past. We are passholders who are typically in the park for only a.few hours then leave to head back and relax at the resort. It worked for my son who if the wait is too long will vocally stim by singing. We don't want to bother others and will try to distract him by talking about other things, playing games etc but he will inevitably go back to singing. Now I'm the lady in line quieting my kid constantly to not disturb others with 2 younger kids. I was told we should use return to queue. I guarantee we will not be returning to most rides if we leave the line. Also we will now be bringing constant attention to my son who is sensitive about autism in the first place. I'm pretty disgusted with the whole situation. We will go early and leave around lunch. Probably be done for the day. Maybe next year we do universal instead and just stay in the premier hotels for unlimited express. Vacation shouldn't be stressful but Disney seems to be making it that way.

Hugs. How frustrating . Especially because the basic information they release makes it seem like your son should is who it should be for

 

[aprilibeth]

Hugs. How frustrating . Especially because the basic information they release makes it seem like your son should is who it should be for

Honestly I felt bad the first time we used it. Like guilty. Then I realized all sorts of other things in life are difficult. This is one thing Disney made easy. Oh well. It's not the end of the world. There are people with much worse problems.

 

[jennab55]

Whelp. Just got banned from a DAS FB group for trying to tell people the new accommodations, what has worked for some people (trying those then going back to Disney and getting approved based on evidence), that people need to explain the “why” instead of the disability, and my opinion that medical documentation is not the answer. It seems like some groups don’t want to look at what to do next and possible solutions. I guess giving people information I’ve read and seen from others is “mean”.

 

[Chi84]

Whelp. Just got banned from a DAS FB group for trying to tell people the new accommodations, what has worked for some people (trying those then going back to Disney and getting approved based on evidence), that people need to explain the “why” instead of the disability, and my opinion that medical documentation is not the answer. It seems like some groups don’t want to look at what to do next and possible solutions. I guess giving people information I’ve read and seen from others is “mean”.

It’s not mean but it could lead to people trying to scam the system. What would be wrong with just letting people honestly answer the questions instead of telling them what “worked” for others?

 

[Disney Glimpses]

There's definitely going to be an adjustment period for a lot of folks as Disney is clearly reclassifying the DAS service. I hope that this "return-to-queue" situation gets the CM support it needs.