Rumor New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Dranth]

To counter your “abuse” point on though, If you contact Disney and say what accommodation can you make for me, this is my situation, and they offer DAS, I fail to see how thats abuse. Do you need all day every park LL? Maybe not but if they come back and say this is the only thing we offer not sure that’s on you. If you are calling in and claiming you have some hidden problem and you don’t, f you, but if you need accommodation I personally think that is ok.

I think we agree here. I don't think it is abuse for someone to use the system the way it is setup to be used. I am talking about the people who go online and read up what to say to get DAS for their perfectly abled family to skip waiting in long lines for free.

As a separate issue, Disney was also over accommodating on disabilities that may not require a DAS like system which made the whole thing worse. I don't blame guests so much on that as Disney was the one that allowed those but it was a problem and the new system is attempting to address that as well as the actual abuse.

I don’t get the vitriol on both sides of this who blame DAS for all the ills of line waits or those who won’t be able to go to Disney without DAS without knowing what the new system will be for them.

I get the frustration from everyone.

For non-DAS users DAS uses the majority of all LL access so it is one of the primary contributors for standby lines that don't move. The high number of people in a DAS party also impacts the waits in LL lines causing people who legit can't do that parks without to wait longer than they should as well as everyone who paid extra money for the G+ service.

On the other hand, those that needed DAS who now may not qualify are in the dark and have no idea how they will be able to take another trip. I am sure it feels like they are losing access to a place that means a ton to them and brings them a lot of joy.

I personally feel that Disney will find a way to make it work, they are just saying it won't be DAS for all but that is easy for me to say as it doesn't impact me.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

FP favors one particular type of guest though and that 11 to noon was not sustainable. On busy days I saw rides gone by 9am. Sure, early in the life of FP you could still get stuff as late as 4 or 5 but each year that time crept lower as attendance continued to rise. Every additional person coming in using FP was reducing how long they were available forcing more people to go early which caused them to run out earlier. It was a self-sustaining cycle.

From 2012 when FP+ was first introduced to the last full year before the pandemic the Magic Kingdom saw a 20% increase in park goers and it was going to hit the point that unless you were there first thing in the morning you got nothing but most certainly not the most popular rides if they had still been on FP.

Also, G+ isn't much of a gamble. SDD might be the only ride that regularly disappears quickly and even with that I regularly get slots waking up at 8 or 9 and just grabbing one for late in the day.

Now if we are talking VQ rides then sure, those are a measure of your phone and finger speed.


He estimated the numbers based on data he and his team collected combined with public information that was available and statements from Disney. A conversation(s) with Disney people who would know more or less verified his numbers. If I remember correctly, Len was even a bit on the low side with his estimates.

Fastpass avail crept lower overtime because attendance rose without new capacity

Their ride management system is using designs from the 90’s with the same capacity as the 90’s. It’s 20% short at a minimum

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

They literally gave anyone who wants to cheat the system a blueprint of it…. How is explaining how the return to line system will work is encouraging an abuse of the system. Maybe im missing something

Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results would be illogical. You’re right, they absolutely gave people a blueprint on how to get DAS and GAC under the previous iterations. They should stop doing that. Accommodations should be individualized and ideally not publicized.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Fastpass avail crept lower overtime because attendance rose without new capacity

Their ride management system is using designs from the 90’s with the same capacity as the 90’s. It’s 20% short at a minimum

I think you’re being too generous here tbh. In 1992 MK daily attendance was 11.5 million. 30 years later, in 2022, is was 17 million (still down from the pre-covid 2019 19 million number). That’s almost a 50 percent increase in daily attendance. How much has MK capacity increased since 1992? I know New Fantasyland added some, but then again, some other stuff from then is closed and remains vacant. Epcot has less capacity now than then I believe. I think they need a lot more than 20 percent additional capacity, and this really shows why FP is unsustainable, G+ is unsustainable, and a free line skip system where you just need to tell Guest Services is unsustainable.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

On busy days I saw rides gone by 9am.

Are we talking like New Year’s Eve? And what rides?

Midway mania would be the one exception and maybe Soarin when it first opened. Of course, both of those were under built, hence the 3rd track and 3rd theatre that now exist. That wasn’t really FP fault.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think you’re being too generous here tbh. In 1992 MK daily attendance was 11.5 million. 30 years later, in 2022, is was 17 million (still down from the pre-covid 2019 19 million number). That’s almost a 50 percent increase in daily attendance. How much has MK capacity increased since 1992? I know New Fantasyland added some, but then again, some other stuff from then is closed and remains vacant. Epcot has less capacity now than then I believe. I think they need a lot more than 20 percent additional capacity, and this really shows why FP is unsustainable, G+ is unsustainable, and a free line skip system where you just need to tell Guest Services is unsustainable.

I am intentionally taking the under

2000 total clicks (which are numbers fastpass was designed for) were 44,000,000

The 2018/19 estimate was 57-58,000,000

You do the math

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I am intentionally taking the under

2000 total clicks (which are numbers fastpass was designed for) were 44,000,000

The 2018/19 estimate was 57-58,000,000

You do the math

It’s crazy to me that we’re still not back at 2019 attendance numbers, because the parks are seeing average wait times at the headliners that rival 2019, and then you look at what’s changed since 2019, and it’s two things:

1. Genie+; and
2. A tripling of the number of people utilizing DAS.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

and then you look at what’s changed since 2019, and it’s two things:

Also significant cuts to live entertainment in the parks - and 2019 was already pretty bad.

Adding more live entertainment and characters would instantly improve things.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Also significant cuts to live entertainment in the parks - and 2019 was already pretty bad.

Adding more live entertainment and characters would instantly improve things.

If you want to compare 2022 live entertainment to 2002, absolutely, tons of cuts. But 2022 to 2019? Eh…

 

[Splash4eva]

Because how to game the system/avoid the fees becomes commonplace info in our digital world…unfortunately

How are you the gaming system. Im strictly talking about the return to line feature they keep boasting about as a replacement for people they deny DAS to as a viable substitute.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

How are you the gaming system. Im strictly talking about the return to line feature they keep boasting about as a replacement for people they deny DAS to as a viable substitute.

Well, for one, I’m willing to bed a lot that the return to line system isn’t actually going to be “hey, just force your way back to your spot while everyone glares angrily at you” like so many people in this thread keep imagining it. It’s probably going to be more complicated, maybe/probably involving the lightning lane and the merge points, and thus probably will be something that can be gamed.

 

[Splash4eva]

I think you’re being too generous here tbh. In 1992 MK daily attendance was 11.5 million. 30 years later, in 2022, is was 17 million (still down from the pre-covid 2019 19 million number). That’s almost a 50 percent increase in daily attendance. How much has MK capacity increased since 1992? I know New Fantasyland added some, but then again, some other stuff from then is closed and remains vacant. Epcot has less capacity now than then I believe. I think they need a lot more than 20 percent additional capacity, and this really shows why FP is unsustainable, G+ is unsustainable, and a free line skip system where you just need to tell Guest Services is unsustainable.

Im pretty sure you are being sarcastic when you and everyone else repeats the line that DAS is a line skip system….

 

[Splash4eva]

Well, for one, I’m willing to bed a lot that the return to line system isn’t actually going to be “hey, just force your way back to your spot while everyone glares angrily at you” like so many people in this thread keep imagining it. It’s probably going to be more complicated, maybe/probably involving the lightning lane and the merge points, and thus probably will be something that can be gamed.

All im asking is why is Disney NOT explaining how its gonna work. People are literally weeks away from dealing with this unknown on a 1st hand basis. Its a really risky and expensive some families may be forced to gamble with all because Disney has communicated this extremely poorly

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Im pretty sure you are being sarcastic when you and everyone else repeats the line that DAS is a line skip system….

I mean, is Genie+ a line skip system? If it is, then so is DAS. Yes, I know it’s not an immediate line skip system, but you still skip the standby line. If Genie+ isn’t a line skip system then we are just arguing over semantics.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

All im asking is why is Disney NOT explaining how it’s gonna work. People are literally weeks away from dealing with this unknown on a 1st hand basis. Its a really risky and expensive some families may be forced to gamble with all because Disney has communicated this extremely poorly

Disney, in my opinion, should not publicly be giving a ton of details about this, to avoid abuse for the reasons I’ve described. They absolutely should privately be discussing how individualized accommodations are going to work for those that need them, with those individuals. It sounds like they’re going to start doing that on May 20th. For those in that “witching hour” of people who have trips after May 20th but substantially before June 20th, yes that sucks, but I don’t see a good way around it for Disney.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s crazy to me that we’re still not back at 2019 attendance numbers, because the parks are seeing average wait times at the headliners that rival 2019, and then you look at what’s changed since 2019, and it’s two things:

1. Genie+; and
2. A tripling of the number of people utilizing DAS.

Odd…isn’t it?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Im pretty sure you are being sarcastic when you and everyone else repeats the line that DAS is a line skip system….

I mean, is Genie+ a line skip system? If it is, then so is DAS. Yes, I know it’s not an immediate line skip system, but you still skip the standby line. If Genie+ isn’t a line skip system then we are just arguing over semantics.

I think we’re parsing

If you can do ANYTHING with your time other than snake queueing…you are benefiting from missing the line

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

How are you the gaming system. Im strictly talking about the return to line feature they keep boasting about as a replacement for people they deny DAS to as a viable substitute.

I’m just saying why they might be tight lipped on policy/details

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If you want to compare 2022 live entertainment to 2002, absolutely, tons of cuts. But 2022 to 2019? Eh…

The bobs were told cheap entertainment cost “a lot” by some kid that got a C- in Econ at Stanford

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I think everyone is going to be very disappointed when this rolls out, the former DAS users are now going to struggle a bit more to enjoy the parks and the standby guests are going to be disappointed when they realize average waits only go down a couple minutes.

This isn’t the answer to long lines, it’s just another scheme to avoid the elephant in the room, not enough ride capacity.

55 minute standby waits are better than 60 but is that really going to make a difference in guests perception of the parks?

Reminds me of the “get rid of FP to fix it” arguments back in the day, everyone claimed getting rid of FP would speed up the standby queue and then in 2020 (with no FP and reduced attendance) the lines were just as slow as before. This problem can’t be fixed with line schemes, it needs shovels and ladders.