New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am confused,when we used DAS everyone that traveled with the DAS individual also had to scan in so I would think they would have some numbers to run on this.
That being said I have a feeling they do and that is part of the reason for some of the changes.

If I’m not mistaken…the 8-10% number is the total being granted DAS…but the larger balloon number is due to their “travel with” parties that increase on a 2x/3x/4x/5x factor…

And also if the CMs are just worn out (and little doubt they are) and letting “whoever” through on a bypass? That would really wreck it

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But the discussion has been that the problem is the lightning lane use, not the standby use while waiting for the lightning lane (aside from that being an incentive for people to actually abuse and lie to get the DAS). The discussion hasn't centered, nor has the data centered, on DAS users causing a problem when entering short standby queues while they wait for their DAS return.

The standby lines are beholden to lightning lane…an unfortunate holdover from plus…

So any alteration of the patterns based on LL numbers in DAS creates a cascade effect that affects the whole park capacity and traffic flow.
The discussion wasn’t about using shorter lines and making them longer in the virtual…but it should be in part because that’s a trickle down effect too.

If there’s a 90 minute on mine train and the party goes on Pooh at 45 minutes and haunted mansion at 30 minutes…that spot on mine train is still being factored into the computer and accounted for lengthening the standby…and the other lines as well.

 

[Happyday]

If I’m not mistaken…the 8-10% number is the total being granted DAS…but the larger balloon number is due to their “travel with” parties that increase on a 2x/3x/4x/5x factor…

And also if the CMs are just worn out (and little doubt they are) and letting “whoever” through on a bypass? That would really wreck it

Exactly, that's why I think they should have some numbers unless what you said about CM's being burnt out dealing with rude guests (definitely not going to be surprised and in a way don't blame them)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think they are including the people that join with the DAS individual. They were allowed up to 6 guests and from what I have read here that was just a "suggestion" CM were given the ability to 'over ride' that #

They are…and it’s a problem
For a couple of people in this scenario

 

[Happyday]

there’s a 90 minute on mine train and the party goes on Pooh at 45 minutes and haunted mansion at 30 minutes…that spot on mine train is still being factored into the computer and accounted for lengthening the standby…and the other lines as well.

I know this is just an example but... if this were true they really don't need DAS We wouldn't be able to do anything over 10 minutes

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I know this is just an example but... if this were true they really don't need DAS We wouldn't be able to do anything over 10 minutes

Obviously the legitimate need users of DAS would likely not be able to pull that off.

But the inference here from
Disney is that it’s it’s the outright abusers and “borderline” cases that could do it.

And yes…before someone whines it’s ALSO about money…but in a rare case - I kinda agree with Disney there too.

 

[Happyday]

Obviously the legitimate need users of DAS would likely not be able to pull that off.

But the inference here from
Disney is that it’s it’s the outright abusers and “borderline” cases that could do it.

And yes…before someone whines it’s ALSO about money…but in a rare case - I kinda agree with Disney there too.

Yeah I was just sitting here laughing reading your example thinking yeah in my dreams . And yes I totally agree I don't blame Disney for not wanting to be taken advantage of which is how I think they are feeling after all it is a business and if they can't figure it all out there will not be a Disney park to go to.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

ILL usage was being estimated as high as 75% of the total usage also

Something isn’t right

That’s where Len’s team of number crunchers came in. From observation of the blue light entries plus those that followed w/o tapping in, they determined that around 70% of guests using the LL lane were DAS users and their parties. Now this was for a popular but not top tier ride (HM I think).

And apparently that agrees with conversations he’s had.

So if I’m reading this right it’s not 8-10% using 70% of the ride capacity, it’s more like 40% (DAS guest plus their party) using 52.5% of ride capacity (70% DAS of 75% ILL capacity). That makes more sense.

40% using 52% of capacity seems realistic, the 8% using 70% never seemed possible. I know a few people with DAS and I’d be shocked if any of us are doing more rides than the average guest, I could see us doing 1-2 rides a day more though, which would fall in line with 40/52.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah I was just sitting here laughing reading your example thinking yeah in my dreams . And yes I totally agree I don't blame Disney for not wanting to be taken advantage of which is how I think they are feeling after all it is a business and if they can't figure it all out there will not be a Disney park to go to.

Well this is where Disney is less than “altruistic”

They need more money from the parks. And they’re already stretching it thin. It’s been discussed in great detail on other threads

Genie represents “free revenue” it costs them almost nothing…they’re just repackaging and reselling the same thing people are paying for at the gate.

But it’s bad product now and word is out. It doesn’t work well…people are angry at the cost as is…let alone willing to pay more which was the design from the start. That idiot chapek gave it away “introductory price”. Telegraphed.

So if a lot of the ILL is being used for DAS…no revenue…taking it away serves several goals:
1. It will force more to buy it
2. It will make a “more valuable” product with more slots in the systems…which then will be charged for…

 

[ditzee]

Well this is where Disney is less than “altruistic”

They need more money from the parks. And they’re already stretching it thin. It’s been discussed in great detail on other threads

Genie represents “free revenue” it costs them almost nothing…they’re just repackaging and reselling the same thing people are paying for at the gate.

But it’s bad product now and word is out. It doesn’t work well…people are angry at the cost as is…let alone willing to pay more which was the design from the start. That idiot chapek gave it away “introductory price”. Telegraphed.

So if a lot of the ILL is being used for DAS…no revenue…taking it away serves several goals:
1. It will force more to buy it
2. It will make a “more valuable” product with more slots in the systems…which then will be charged for…

Hope they make money in the parks because their movies have been dismal. Read they lost over 900 million in 2023 and 2024 doesn't look too good.
If Disney wants the parks to partially make up for film losses, they need to step up. I know new lands, expansions and attractions are coming but dang, they take forever to complete. Look at Splash Mountain.The structure was there and yet it's taking 18 months to what throw up some painting and animatronics to get Tiana going. Seems like the parks are treated like Cinderella. We need a fairy godmother/godfather.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

One point to make here - Disney isn’t just cracking down on DAS abuse - Disney is taking away DAS access from those with actual disabilities that were previously given DAS access.

Maybe that’s obvious.

It must also be stated that a disability doesn't necessarily mean you can't wait in a SB line. So yes, I think they are trying to fix that as well.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Hope they make money in the parks because their movies have been dismal. Read they lost over 900 million in 2023 and 2024 doesn't look too good.
If Disney wants the parks to partially make up for film losses, they need to step up. I know new lands, expansions and attractions are coming but dang, they take forever to complete. Look at Splash Mountain.The structure was there and yet it's taking 18 months to what throw up some painting and animatronics to get Tiana going. Seems like the parks are treated like Cinderella. We need a fairy godmother/godfather.

Well since you brought it up…I’ll slide this little financial outlook over to illustrate what’s going on with parks:

From LA TIMES article on Disney and parks today:

During the most recent fiscal year, the company’s experiences division — which is heavily anchored by the parks — brought in about 70% of Disney’s operating income, according to a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. By contrast, Disney’s sports sector, including ESPN, contributed 19% of operating income. The entertainment division, consisting of the company’s TV channels, streaming services and movie studios, brought up the rear at 11%.

Those numbers represent a stark contrast from even 10 years ago, when the company was heavily reliant on its TV networks, which brought in 56% of Disney’s operating income (that segment included ESPN at the time). The parks and resorts division drew just 20%.

 

[ditzee]

One point to make here - Disney isn’t just cracking down on DAS abuse - Disney is taking away DAS access from those with actual disabilities that were previously given DAS access.

Maybe that’s obvious.

I may be wrong but I do think that Disney will work with all disabled people. They cannot ask for a diagnosis so just tell them why standing in a long line is undoable for you. Besides that, tell them who will accompany you and why that might present a problem for returning to the line.
I'm very curious to see how the company plans to handle this. Should start hearing/reading about Disney will handle disabilities in a few weeks. It may not be all that different. We really don't know because "return to line", etc. is all speculation.

 

[rtmachine]

That’s where Len’s team of number crunchers came in. From observation of the blue light entries plus those that followed w/o tapping in, they determined that around 70% of guests using the LL lane were DAS users and their parties. Now this was for a popular but not top tier ride (HM I think).

And apparently that agrees with conversations he’s had.

I have been in DAS groups and always had to tap in and after the DAS holder which was blue and then everybody following turned green, but everybody had to tap in.. so I'm not sure that is totally accurate

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I may be wrong but I do think that Disney will work with all disabled people. They cannot ask for a diagnosis so just tell them why standing in a long line is undoable for you. Besides that, tell them who will accompany you and why that might present a problem for returning to the line.
I'm very curious to see how the company plans to handle this. Should start hearing/reading about Disney will handle disabilities in a few weeks. It may not be all that different. We really don't know because "return to line", etc. is all speculation.

Absolutely.

But I also think they are trying to root out “accommodations for convenience”

It’s a delicate line…which means it’s gonna rankle feathers and have lots of mistakes.

But we need to remember what Disney parks are: most profitable with happy people when full and they hate negative PR.

For them to decide the risks of negative PR are worth the backlash and bad pub?….then they think it’s a big deal. They wouldn’t touch it otherwise

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I have been in DAS groups and always had to tap in and after the DAS holder which was blue and then everybody following turned green, but everybody had to tap in.. so I'm not sure that is totally accurate

Those assessments may be the ONE thing I don’t doubt on fan forums. He doesn’t “guess”…it’s a research/analytics team.

They’re accurate

 

[phillip9698]

One point to make here - Disney isn’t just cracking down on DAS abuse - Disney is taking away DAS access from those with actual disabilities that were previously given DAS access.

Maybe that’s obvious

Not everyone with a disability NEEDED the prior service. It was meant for people whose disability prevented them from waiting in a normal queue.

That’s where the service needs to be focused.

I have to wear shades because the sun bothers my eyes isn’t a disability that prevents one from waiting in a queue.

 

[pdude81]

Does it go further than just the ratio of guests? The percent DAS/nonDAS in any given line is also impacted by how many attractions are attempted through each group on average. Maybe a math wiz can help here.

Example (not real data) - say 30% of park guests on average are linked to a DAS pass (8% are holders with avg 3ppl also attached). On average this group is also accomplishing 25% more lined attractions than their counterparts. The result could be that this 30% of guests is making up closer to 40% of an average line.

I understand guests with more severe disabilities commonly do a below average amount of lined attractions with their party vs the average guest. But there are also many common conditions where a DAS party was not limited differently than average nonDAS standby group. Some people are limited; what ratio are not limited? This is not to compare to most aggressive able-bodied/minded guests going commando through the park, rather the limits of just typical average guests that cannot burn the candle at both ends. What is the difference in how they can maximize the park vs not limited DAS party? Who is averaging more and why. What affects are these groups having on each other. Etc.

When Genie+ was released Oct 2021, DAS went digital through MDE. Improved data. Now more than ever they are seeing who is going where and all the favorable things attached to those accounts. When I think about what was added to DAS in late 2021, the ease of requesting return times digitally and pre-registering from home for 2 pre-selects encouraged guests to accept giving WDW more data and more accurate data.

We don't know how large the average party size is, but Len said that Disney's numbers showed 75% of people in the LL were DAS users. So if 30% are using 75% of capacity, that's more than double the average Genie Plus guest who paid for the service but was limited to one LL per attraction. I believe his own estimates were more like 50-70% of LL were DAS guests, but again this is something on the order of 40% of total guests.

The major issue here is that given the LL merge ratios are rather high, 75% of LL can easily be 60% or more of ride capacity. And Disney obviously knows who is getting on which rides and what the reasons they gave for needing DAS in the first place. I expect they saw an outsized effect from anxiety and bathroom related issues, since they have honed in more explicitly on developmental disabilities where there is more likely to be an issue with long waits in line.

 

[pdude81]

So if I’m reading this right it’s not 8-10% using 70% of the ride capacity, it’s more like 40% (DAS guest plus their party) using 52.5% of ride capacity (70% DAS of 75% ILL capacity). That makes more sense.

40% using 52% of capacity seems realistic, the 8% using 70% never seemed possible. I know a few people with DAS and I’d be shocked if any of us are doing more rides than the average guest, I could see us doing 1-2 rides a day more though, which would fall in line with 40/52.

Isn't it something like a 10:1 merge now, unless nobody is in the LL (which is rare)? If LL was only 75% of capacity that would average a 3:1 merge.

Now you may not be using DAS to power through the parks, but some are. I think they wanted to make this as convenient as possible for people who needed help, but once the cheat codes got out they had to patch the game.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

. So if 30% are using 75% of capacity, that's more than double the average Genie Plus guest who paid for the service but was limited to one LL per attraction.

I believe this is the crux of the whole issue here…