New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Katieg3030]

Okay, thanks. As I posted previously, when we were at WDW last Nov, it rained - a lot - so many rides were walk ons. I didn't remember using Genie(not+) but my husband just told me I did, lol. Hoping my brain is not atrophying like the rest of me is!

Lol… it’s funny because I thought the same thing at first (they genie was a big help to folks) but apparently it’s just an app that doesn’t do a whole lot…
That said, I think Disney could have fixed this DAS issue in part by allowing non DAS guests a way to reserve a few rides (for free) because if they have genie plus that costs a lot of money and is complicated to use, it makes sense that people are going to be tempted to lie and get the free simple service instead of trying to genie plus.
Because even for those who pay for genie plus they are not guaranteed to be able to get return times for the tides they want.
With DAS anyone can request a return time for any ride. Also with genie you can not re ride something, and with DAS people can get another return time for the same ride… so I can see why Disney has so many people trying to use DAS.
You would think they would try to offer a similar service non disabled people to help prevent abuse.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Lol… it’s funny because I thought the same thing at first (they genie was a big help to folks) but apparently it’s just an app that doesn’t do a whole lot…
That said, I think Disney could have fixed this DAS issue in part by allowing non DAS guests a way to reserve a few rides (for free) because if they have genie plus that costs a lot of money and is complicated to use, it makes sense that people are going to be tempted to lie and get the free simple service instead of trying to genie plus.
Because even for those who pay for genie plus they are not guaranteed to be able to get return times for the tides they want.
With DAS anyone can request a return time for any ride. Also with genie you can not re ride something, and with DAS people can get another return time for the same ride… so I can see why Disney has so many people trying to use DAS.
You would think they would try to offer a similar service non disabled people to help prevent abuse.

Lol, that was FP+. Too bad for us all the almighty dollar killed that.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I'm not talking about Genie+ just regular Genie.

Regular Genie isn’t a like-skip system, it’s a touringplans system, except, unlike @lentesta s system, it makes really bad recommendations that make no sense.

 

[Happyday]

I agree it is above and beyond. So pull back on the things that are above and beyond. Like not enforcing return times and having 2 advance reservations. Don't take it from people who need it.

I agree about the 2 advance reservations however again if you have someone that is neurodivergent it doesn't work that way

 

[DisneyHead123]

Yes but that is a bit over the top. The reason for not having a limit is because neurodivergent individuals can be unpredictable and may not be able to return in a certain time frame. Some are sitting somewhere quiet trying to regulate themselves. Many times First aide is where you will find them "catching their breath".

Oh I totally understand that! I was just confused because I didn't see why Disney was having such an impossible time integrating DAS users with a 60-minute return time (I thought) with Genie+ users. That actually sounded pretty easy with the assistance of a mathematician or two. If DAS stretches from return time throughout the entire day, however, that is a whole different ballgame. You really wouldn't be able to predict much with that framework in place.

 

[Katieg3030]

Lol, that was FP+. Too bad for us all the almighty dollar killed that.

And honestly, I think people would be willing to pay for a fast pass plus system…. But the genie plus system is really a step down. They are charging a lot of money per day per person .. and a lot of people are saying it’s a lot of aggravation

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

And honestly, I think people would be willing to pay for a fast pass plus system…. But the genie plus system is really a step down. They are charging a lot of money per day per person .. and a lot of people are saying it’s a lot of aggravation

Nah, Genie+ is really just paid maxpass and maxpass was superior to fast pass. If Genie+ was free it would absolutely be an upgrade from fast pass+.

 

[el_super]

Did it not work, or did circumstances change that require more changes be made?

Honestly I thought it worked and I am in the camp that the abuse has been largely over stated.

Generally though, Disney cannot ask for proof of a disability and their avenue for determining DAS eligibility is the same as it always has been: asking a series of questions and hoping the respondent is telling the truth. That's all they can do and in that regard nothing changes with DAS 2.0.

Once it becomes widely known what to say/how to answer to get DAS then what happens?

 

[el_super]

There are people in this very thread who have admitted to it, so “zero evidence” is just false.

Ok so it has to be between 0.0001% and 8% of guests? Where is the study that shows what the level of abuse is at?

 

[flynnibus]

I could be wrong but I think the ADA says they must have an equal way for those disabilities to access the rides. I know for certain it says that the companies are not allowed to make something more challenging to access than the regular guests … so I don’t know how they would get around that?

You're reading too much into the 'equal' part.

They are intended to be INTEGRATED - not separated. They are intended to be INCLUDED, not excluded. They should have what they call 'equal participation' aka not get some subset. (the last point being the one where reasonable accommodation usually limits things the most).

Your comment like 'are not allowed to make something more challenging to access' is not valid. This is not some hard line, in fact it's one of the areas that is most interpreted in the idea of what a business is allowed to constrain or require to provide an accommodation.

Did you notice Disney requires registration, taking your photo, etc for DAS? Do other guests need to do that to get into line? No.. and that's been deemed perfectly acceptable for Disney to be able to effectively operate their accessibility program.

What the system requires is that they don't give people unnecessary burden that has the effect of discouraging or discriminating against the intended audience. Where the line is drawn depends on the circumstances... which is why the idea of the medical screening and pre-authorization Six Flags and others have done is basically waiting to be court tested.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I keep asking this and it's so weird no one can answer it: what percentage of DAS users fall into this "power user" category that is hoovering up all the capacity? Somehow people have it in their head it's a lot but there has been zero evidence of it anywhere. So odd.

I wondered about that too. It was clarified at some point that the 50-70% (or maybe 50-80%?) capacity number was largely in reference to the LL in very popular or very new e-ticket rides. It doesn't refer to "all rides in the park" capacity or capacity on any individual ride in the park. Not sure if that speaks to your question, but that cleared things up for me somewhat (I kept hearing that 8% of guests were using up 71% of capacity and was like "Even if every single guest is in two lines at every single moment, how little capacity does Disney have?")

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

You want to believe that changing the system and potentially harming multitudes of DAS users is worth the effort to stop a level of abuse you don't know or understand.

At this point it just comes off as this weird jealousy that DAS users are getting something extra and must be punished for it.

Disney knows and understands the level of abuse, and is taking steps to fix it. Numbers have been posted by insiders and experts. I get that you want to stick your head in the sand because you’re worried that you are going to lose access to your preferred line-skip service and might have to settle for a less generous accomodation, but you are just ignoring facts at this point. Repeating “there is no evidence!” over and over again does not make it so in a thread filled with insider evidence, and numbers, statistics, and admissions from DAS users themselves.

 

[Happyday]

Well, that is a tough situation and I'm not sure how to handle that. Hopefully if the issue is severe enough they wouldn't be able to go to Disney unless with only the DAS, then they would qualify for it.

We have had things going on in our life that made us decide to buy refundable airline tickets at times. I know that's isn't feasible for everyone, but I suggest it for those who can afford and may be in a situation where you may need to cancel.

Absolutely but I was under the impression 30 days is too late for a refund. We also buy travel insurance because you never know what could happen.

 

[Happyday]

That's not what I read. I read it was being removed as a default option on DAS, but still available for some.

True but I really hope it is really limited since it is beyond DAS.

 

[flynnibus]

Schools and jobs can’t ask for disability information… but my understanding is that theme parks and other businesses can ask IF the service they are providing goes above and beyond equal to that if a non disabled customer .

Again, you are incorrect. Schools and employment are actually the areas that it's very clear they can require more validation of the disability.

And no to your second point as well... the 'above and beyond' criteria has nothing to do with the acceptable burden or risk of discrimination against the disabled. If you offer a service just as a perk.. that's just a perk.. nothing to do with disabilities.

 

[el_super]

I wondered about that too. It was clarified at some point that the 50-70% (or maybe 50-80%?) capacity number was largely in reference to the very popular or very new e-ticket rides.

Oh yeah I know... the numbers that were shared before about DAS usage in Lightning Lane absolutely makes sense and I'm not at all disputing that. The problem is the claim that there is widespread abuse occuring when people with DAS are joining standby lines while waiting for their DAS return (basically double dipping). There is no real evidence to suggest this is as big an issue as anyone here makes it out.

If there is no real abuse occuring, the only thing any potential DAS change will do, is force people from the Lightning Lane to the standby. Which effectively means the wait times will not change. So no one really ends up ahead.

 

[ditzee]

Absolutely but I was under the impression 30 days is too late for a refund. We also buy travel insurance because you never know what could happen.

Talked to a CM the other day because I wanted my question answered by someone with Disney. Said getting a ticket refund would be beyond his pay grade. You have to call to cancel a package BUT if your vacation falls w/in the 30 days of the implementation of new DAS rules, I'd call. Won't hurt and it might help.

 

[Katieg3030]

Nah, Genie+ is really just paid maxpass and maxpass was superior to fast pass. If Genie+ was free it would absolutely be an upgrade from fast pass+.

You're reading too much into the 'equal' part.

They are intended to be INTEGRATED - not separated. They are intended to be INCLUDED, not excluded. They should have what they call 'equal participation' aka not get some subset. (the last point being the one where reasonable accommodation usually limits things the most).

Your comment like 'are not allowed to make something more challenging to access' is not valid. This is not some hard line, in fact it's one of the areas that is most interpreted in the idea of what a business is allowed to constrain or require to provide an accommodation.

Did you notice Disney requires registration, taking your photo, etc for DAS? Do other guests need to do that to get into line? No.. and that's been deemed perfectly acceptable for Disney to be able to effectively operate their accessibility program.

What the system requires is that they don't give people unnecessary burden that has the effect of discouraging or discriminating against the intended audience. Where the line is drawn depends on the circumstances... which is why the idea of the medical screening and pre-authorization Six Flags and others have done is basically waiting to be court tested.

I agree, it is all subjective and depends on the disability and what the persons needs are where that line is drawn. That is why it is so counterproductive that Disney has offered the same accommodation for every disability.
And your right, accommodations can’t make the product “discourage” or not “include” disabled customers… and again, it all depends on what the disability is as to what would discourage Or exclude someone .
I think that universal, and six flags and others are within the law to require documentation because they are offering the disabled guest an elevated service that non disabled guests have to pay for. So if a guest chooses to request that service without paying then they have to provide documentation. It gets sort of into a grey area if they requested medical documentation without the elevated service being offered. I’m not sure how that would work with ADA, it would probably depend on what was offered and how it was worded.

 

[Happyday]

Oh I totally understand that! I was just confused because I didn't see why Disney was having such an impossible time integrating DAS users with a 60-minute return time (I thought) with Genie+ users. That actually sounded pretty easy with the assistance of a mathematician or two. If DAS stretches from return time throughout the entire day, however, that is a whole different ballgame. You really wouldn't be able to predict much with that framework in place.

Exactly. That is the problem the unlimited time is needed for these DAS users but it is a big part of the issue. Unfortunately Disney is in a difficult situation because of needing to accommodate them but it is causing a problem

 

[Jrb1979]

I wondered about that too. It was clarified at some point that the 50-70% (or maybe 50-80%?) capacity number was largely in reference to the very popular or very new e-ticket rides. It doesn't refer to "all rides in the park" capacity or capacity on any individual ride in the park. Not sure if that speaks to your question, but that cleared things up for me somewhat (I kept hearing that 8% of guests were using up 71% of capacity and was like "Even if every single guest is in two lines at every single moment, how little capacity does Disney have?")

It's not 50-70% of all ride capacity. It's 50-70% of LL capacity. They are not equal.