New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Happyday]

100%. These are self-inflicted wounds. But they will take operational issues any day of the week if they can keep adding revenue streams and enough people say "oh well, it is what it is."


Should we talk about ABBA?

Maybe we should

 

[Angel Ariel]

You have been consistent…

But “should my kid not be allowed to read?” Isn’t the right analogy for this…which is not a serious thing…it’s a frivolous one.

I will own it was a frustrated moment of response to a comment that was inflammatory (the comment I am referring to as inflammatory is not the one I quoted in that response - but one by a poster earlier (that the person I quoted was also responding to) basically telling people to stay home because Disney isn't an appropriate place for everyone.

Again, I own that it was not my best response and I was frustrated. And. I'm tired of being told my child just doesn't belong in places because she requires accommodations to be there. It's a far too common occurrence (not just related to Disney but many areas of her life).

ETA: for the record, access to learning how to read and write also isn't frivolous in our world. We have struggled mightily to get her needs met by school in a way to teach her to read and write independently. it's still not being met appropriately despite multiple advocates in meetings, a crap ton of individual and systemic advocacy, etc.

 

[flynnibus]

While I don't disagree with your premise, that philosophy only works if you believe everyone at face value with the true reason they are in the program.

Yes, but your fixation on abuse while glossing over those in need is exactly why the law was created in the first place. The unconscious discrimination that caused alienation and exclusion for those impacted by their disabilities.

We all know there are people abusing the system - no need to rehash that - but you have to have your priorities straight and not forget what you are addressing in the first place. Your example illustrates the problem that people assume 'you don't really need that...' or judging people in general because of what they see. That kind of discrimination and exclusionary bias is EXACTLY why the law was created in the first place. To change the DEFAULT POSTURE to inclusive, rather than 'exception'.

Failure to protect that means to completely miss what the law set out to correct.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I will own it was a frustrated moment of response to a comment that was inflammatory (the comment I am referring to as inflammatory is not the one I quoted in that response - but one by a poster earlier (that the person I quoted was also responding to) basically telling people to stay home because Disney isn't an appropriate place for everyone.

Again, I own that it was not my best response and I was frustrated. And. I'm tired of being told my child just doesn't belong in places because she requires accommodations to be there. It's a far too common occurrence (not just related to Disney but many areas of her life).

ETA: for the record, access to learning how to read and write also isn't frivolous in our world. We have struggled mightily to get her needs met by school in a way to teach her to read and write independently. it's still not being met appropriately despite multiple advocates in meetings, a crap ton of individual and systemic advocacy, etc.

Sorry…bad phrasing on my part

Reading: serious
Line for mine train: not serious

 

[Happyday]

Anecdotally, I work at a relatively popular family attraction at WDW and when I'm at the entrance in charge of LL scans, I see about 60% being DAS throughout the day. Half of that 60% of are families with wheelchair tagged strollers or parties with an ecv/wheelchair.

I don't really judge at all and just follow procedure. I respect invisible disability and its not my place or job to question anyone.

But I will say that I fully believe any report about more than half of LL being DAS currently. Because that's been my own experience. I'm not sure whether this change will be good or bad or if any other systems will help, just sharing my experience.

I will say that ECV's and Wheelchairs are operationally challenging for ppl to navigate our queue and how it slows down our operation tremendously. Not in a way that's frustrating or anything(again, full respect and understanding) just in a way that makes me nervous about the impact of potentially forcing more families into vehicles or chairs

I hear you and totally believe that. I would like to clarify a point, sometimes a person with DD or autism may also require a wheelchair in fact there are more than you may think as it is not uncommon for the reason they are in a wheelchair is a condition that involves the brain which also causes DD or autism. I am not saying you were implying it isn't but some may interpret it that way. I don't understand the ECV's unless there is one of the medical issues that they will find another option for.

 

[DeadyRoosevelt]

Then that means it’s being scammed. There’s no other reasonable conclusion. Even if the amount of legitimate disabilities in Disney parks is higher than on the streets - which it undoubtedly is - it should still only be a single digit number on an average day.

I wonder what their expectation is for this number. I think a single digit number sounds too low, but I suck at math. Didn't someone try to crunch the (estimated) numbers here earlier in the thread? I can't seem to track that comment down.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I wonder what their expectation is for this number. I think a single digit number sounds too low, but I suck at math. Didn't someone try to crunch the (estimated) numbers here earlier in the thread? I can't seem to track that comment down.

That data is hard to come by…but I would be fascinating to know?

 

[Happyday]

Appreciate that perspective, thank you!

Just as one note on the strollers as a wheelchair. It can be needed for both physical and sensory reasons. Physical reasons alone wouldn't qualify the person for a DAS. (Same is true if the ECV users are the DAS holder). Disney has been very good about maintaining that boundary in our experience.

Thank you. You said it better than I tried to.

 

[AdventurersClub]

Yes, but your fixation on abuse while glossing over those in need is exactly why the law was created in the first place. The unconscious discrimination that caused alienation and exclusion for those impacted by their disabilities.

I have not glossed over anything, in every one of my posts my main concern is the people who need the program. I think it is a disservice to those who need the program to gloss over the abuse or excuse it.

If you actually look at what Disney is required to do by law to accommodate disabilities and compare it to how much further they actually go, its well beyond the mandated requirements. My "fixation" is justified when the biggest reason they are changing the program is due to the abuse. It's not discrimination that has caused people to criticize the scammers so harshly, it is the blatant actions of those scammers.

There are third party tour groups that utilize the pass, there are social media groups dedicated to coaching people what they should say in order to get the pass, and there are even influencers who encourage the behavior. The purpose of the conversation should always be about those who legitimately need the DAS but when Disney cites the reason for the change every time being abuse, it is not something that should be ignored.

Everyone's priorities should be ensuring that there is a system in place for the people who legitimately need the service. The idea that we should blindly not question things that look out of place is exactly why the last two attempts at this program had overwhelming abuse. It is entirely possible to advocate for those in need of the program while also holding to account those who do not belong.

 

[DeadyRoosevelt]

That data is hard to come by…but I would be fascinating to know?

Oh yeah, I was just thinking incredibly rough estimates. Based on number of guests (adults, children, elderly) vs. the CDC numbers for people living with disabilities. Plus other guesses (adults with disabilities that either aren’t covered by current DAS or choose not to use the service, etc).

 

[Happyday]

Yeah, I get it! I know it is also for sensory, I just know that there is fraud in that area too(cm's actually talk more about red tag fraud than DAS fraud, at least in my area. Cause it affects us more) and it doesn't seem to be addressed by these new concepts.

My cousin has Autism, so I'm very sympathetic to the needs. Just seeing what other ppl think of the red tags in conjunction with these updates!

Absolutely it is an issue! Again hopefully this will help. If they don't have a need for DAS there is no need for a red tag.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Sorry…bad phrasing on my part

Reading: serious
Line for mine train: not serious

Thank you for clarifying

I certainly agree they are different. I'd also add I see it slightly differently (I'm sure that's shocking )

Reading: serious
Access to a vacation where she can actually relax and be a kid in a way she can't in most places: also serious

I know you're writing in good faith, so please know I appreciate that.

ETA: I also am not assuming her access will be impacted, as her disability is developmental and significant, so I'm not questioning whether she will continue to qualify. I have some concerns and questions about the 3rd party, but they can wait while this shakes out.

 

[Happyday]

I think they put that wording in there so if they catch a tour guide or whatever abusing DAS they can ban them, and add a general discouragement overall. But that wording has been in there for years and i haven’t ever heard of anyone getting banned for this so

Exactly let's hope they start enforcing this. Like you said the wording has been in there as long as I have known about DAS.

 

[dolbyman]

The whole scenario was almost unbearable, and then they brought out bananas for everyone so it was unbearable AND it smelled, which was way over the line.

I showed this post to my GF and this is going to her Disney BurnBook FB Group (no user name/picture/source attached).. She hates bananas as well

 

[lazyboy97o]

Rather than put the onus on Disney, this is why I suggested the law be changed. That's something people with a disability could advocate for. I'm in favour of slightly advantageous accommodations because it offsets challenges many people face.

However, the world we lives in makes that impossible. It creates an incentive to cheat the system and that's why DAS is always being tweaked to be less "advantageous".

Someone said, and I don't know to what degree it's true, that companies could limit disability access if it becomes unmanageable. If the wait times for other guests become excessive, Disney could argue that they can only accommodate X number of people with DAS in any given day.

Kind of like attractions that have wheelchair accessible ride vehicles. There's only so many and those people might wait longer than others as a result. There's no requirement to make every ride vehicle accessible.

What you are effectively proposing is less accessibility. Plenty of businesses still rather actively try to avoid providing accessible accommodations, even in regards to ubiquitous things like ramps or elevators. Even Disney, who does so much and knows they attract disabled customers, only tends to build to meet minimum requirements of things like parking spaces and hotel rooms.

 

[Trauma]

I wonder what their expectation is for this number. I think a single digit number sounds too low, but I suck at math. Didn't someone try to crunch the (estimated) numbers here earlier in the thread? I can't seem to track that comment down.

I don’t see the number changing much. It will go lower since Disney is now discriminating against all disabilities that are not “developmental” and are limiting group size to 4 people.

However that just means the “cheaters” will change their reason for needing DAS and will be clogging the LL in no time.

Now that I think about it this is even better for the cheaters. The LL will move faster and they can get on more rides.

I guess this encourages more abuse.

Great plan Disney!!

 

[Grantwil93]

I hear you and totally believe that. I would like to clarify a point, sometimes a person with DD or autism may also require a wheelchair in fact there are more than you may think as it is not uncommon for the reason they are in a wheelchair is a condition that involves the brain which also causes DD or autism. I am not saying you were implying it isn't but some may interpret it that way. I don't understand the ECV's unless there is one of the medical issues that they will find another option for.

I appreciate it. And yes, I'm in full agreement with you and didn't mean to imply otherwise. Wording is hard

 

[DryerLintFan]

I showed this post to my GF and this is going to her Disney BurnBook FB Group (no user name/picture/source attached).. She hates bananas as well

I hate them so much. Like they couldn’t have picked a worse snack for people around me. On the bright side everyone else seemed really happy to have the bananas, and they did give us water too! The CMs were really sweet. The smell was just awful though.

 

[DryerLintFan]

I don’t see the number changing much. It will go lower since Disney is now discriminating against all disabilities that are not “developmental” and are limiting group size to 4 people.

However that just means the “cheaters” will change their reason for needing DAS and will be clogging the LL in no time.

Now that I think about it this is even better for the cheaters. The LL will move faster and they can get on more rides.

I guess this encourages more abuse.

Great plan Disney!!

I have been thinking about this…. I wonder if someone who qualified in the past under something else would be red flagged if they not suddenly applied with autism.

Like they have all our previous visits in the computer. They pull them up every time you apply again for DAS. I wonder if you’ve been receiving DAS for let’s say diabetes, and then suddenly you’re asking for it for autism, if they can THEN ask for documentation?

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

What you are effectively proposing is less accessibility. Plenty of businesses still rather actively try to avoid providing accessible accommodations, even in regards to ubiquitous things like ramps or elevators. Even Disney, who does so much and knows they attract disabled customers, only tends to build to meet minimum requirements of things like parking spaces and hotel rooms.

Not my intent at all.

I'm just pointing out that the level of abuse, and laws that impede an ability to address it, makes it difficult or impossible to provide appropriate accessibility.